Not trying to be difficult(honest!) Just some questions to make you think!

Why would you put yourself in the situation of having to manage with somebody elses puppies when you yourself are in a way not getting anything out of it?
I mean as a breeder, having made the decision of wanting to breed on from your bitch(to get a puppy to keep yourself)it is your responsibility to make sure the pups go to good homes...
But as a novice dog owner why do you want to use your dog to stud and possibly end up with somebody elses pups.

I still do not get it why you are not happy with a companion/ friend to show/do obedience etc. untill you have learned more and actually know what you want.
If you want to breed, find a bitch whose lines you like(as you have seen all these different lines at shows you have taken part with your dog and got to know breeders).

I have been in to my breed for 14 years and even now I have chosen my bitch from a breeder who has promised to guide me and help me with my dream of breeding.
I would not trust myself to pick a dog for my bitch, I do not believe I know enough.

How do you know which bitch is suitable for your dog and his pedigree?

Do you know what diseases the dogs in your dogs pedigree possibly carried?
Have you got enough knowledge of the breed and the lines to see you are not putting together two lines with a same problem lurking in the background?

In the end as a dog owner you are the last person to say if the mating should go ahead

>But I would think this is probably different in different breeds<

I should hope so!!! Not least in a breed like the SBT which has a shocking (and upsettingly) High amount of dogs in Rescue :(
Im sorry in this instance I absolutely cannot see how anyone who is breeding other than to better the breed can call themselves a dog lover?? :(

>more of a chance of your dog producing puppies that are nice and look like the breed is supposed to look...<

You'd think!! (Gordon Bennett!! :rolleyes:)

People will always breed SBT's and i will be trying to better the breed, not just anyone who appears with a health tested bitch with all the checks in the world will be able to use him, if it wont better the breed then it wont be done and maybe the studding thing wont work, we will still have him as a stunning pet.

Im going to be very very selective in who uses our stud if he's able, and im not doing it to make money either, its simply for the love of the breed. :)

Breeding should start with the very best bitch you can buy, if she turns out to be good example you have the option of taking her to a wide range of stud dogs to breed from in order to improve the breed.

If you start with a male & use him at stud you can only choose from the bitches offered to him.  If he doesn't enjoy showing he won't get the best bitches brought to him.

Two other slightly important things are 1. have you experience of handling stud dogs & in season bitches ? Mating isn't just a case of putting the dog to the bitch & letting them get on with it, many maiden dogs don't have a clue & loads of maiden bitches can need an experienced handler to successfully achieve a safe good mating. 2. many dog change character after having been used at stud, they can start marking everywhere & can end up bitches all the time

SBT & SBT crosses are now the largest number of dogs in rescue. Are you experienced enough to be able to access your dog impartially ? Are you experienced enough to access bitches brought to him & have you the facilities to take back any offspring he produces at any time in their lives ? If you answer no to any of these then you should not use your dog at stud. You have a 50/50 responsibility with the bitches owner for any of his offspring

Moonmaiden i did say earlier that it wouldnt be a problem taking on puppies that werent sold, or if the dam became ill.

I do have expierance of bitches in heat and breeding expierance a little as my brother breeds mastiffs, so i know a bit about breeding and we wont be studding for a couple of years as yet so have all that time to gain more expierance and better my knowledge.

I underdstand your concern and it is welcomed! I would never breed if i couldnt support the bitch and its owner in any way shape or form, it responsible breeding im intrested in , not the money making side of it!

We are talking about getting phone call that a 6 year old dog aggressive male Stafford needs homing tonight, can you take him in?  Ort an OTT adolescent with no training who wants to take on the World.

A friend of mine over the last two years who is now not as fit as she was has had two 8 year olds and a 10 year old she bred needing new homes.

Breeding should start with the very best bitch you can buy, if she turns out to be good example you have the option of taking her to a wide range of stud dogs to breed from in order to improve the breed.

I agree but would add that even before that, you need to spend years researching and being involved with the breed on the side lines so that you can begin to provide experienced support for any of the puppy owners that your dog or bith may produce. :)  I wouldn't sell a puppy to anyone who said that they were interested in breeding if they hadn't already spent some time involved with a breed related activity.  They wouldn't even get onto my waiting list. :(

Rach, everything that you are saying and the words that you are using shows that you have little experience of what is involved with breeding quality dogs.  Please reconsider.

I agree but would add that even before that, you need to spend years researching and being involved with the breed on the side lines so that you can begin to provide experienced support for any of the puppy owners that your dog or bith may produce. :-)

Exactly. I was in dogs for over 20 years before I had a litter. I hadn't been in Malinois all that long befroe I got into breeding them, but certainly had spent some years showing them actively, getting to know lines etc. I then had (and still have) a LOT of help from the most experienced breeders.

I don't think you should be worrying about vetting bitch owners at this point.  Any mating you are likely to be doing would really best not involve another novice on the bitches side of things, I'm sure you will agree that would have great potential for disaster :) Therefore as, sensibly, it will involve someone who has followed your dogs career in the show ring and investigated his pedigree and has the necessary experience to do that, I think you can fairly safely regard them as also having the necessary facilities.

Exactly right Isabel, I would let anyone use him I would want proof they are worthy for want of a better term and they knew what they were doing, preferably having looked after a litter before with success.
They way you describe is best, but he can be seen in many forms! Flyball, Agility etc etc!

My Spanish go at 7 weeks and my Pom's at 12!!  Don't forget that the Spanish are up and about at 2 weeks of age, as soon as those eyes open they're into trouble.  As we've just lost a Pomeranian who was 7 weeks old you can see why we don't let them go at this age :rolleyes:

sorry to hear you lost a puppy, makes sense why different breeds go at different times when you speak to breeders from different breeds, could you imagine a breeder keeping SBT's until 12 weeks!! Theyd go mad! :)

Why dont you just wait and see? it seems rather absurd to discuss using a dog at stud when its not even 7weeks yet! who knows if its going to turn into the fabulous stud dog you require?? 

Surely its best to have the advice and not need it then need it and not have it??
no need to be sarky either were having a good adult discussion here thanks.

I can't see anything sarcastic in Mygirl's post.  It's straightforword sense.

lol i'm not being sarky (as you put it) thanks :D

The trouble is, in a couple of years' time when the advice becomes relevant ;) only a superbrain is likely to have remembered it all. ;) :D Best not to count your chickens. :)

no chickens have been counted yet!! :)

I do have a superbrain! or books will keep for a couple of years at least so will have a refresher course!
I know we dont know if he will even be a stud dog yet, but no harm in preparing!! :) :)

I guess you could compare it to planning for your newborn baby to become a doctor or lawyer as an adult. :) (And many do, but it doesn't often happen.)

Can I ask which tests this dogs parents have had?  Have they had all the necessary ones that this breed requires?

TBH i am horrifed the breeder hasnt endorsed the litter if i had someone say to me they was thinking of breeding they would have an endorsement slapped on asap.... Especially seeing as the op says its a well known  breeder... In our breed goes without saying they are endorsed theres not many about that dont now and i am talking top dane breeder for 50years!! very well established they dont want their progeny bred to crap...

HI BEFORE GETTING MY DOGS I READ UP ABOUT THEM AND IN ALL THE BOOKS I READ IT SAID THE PUPPYS ARE NOT READY TO GO UNTILL 8 WEEKS.

You haven't got a copy of Gwen Bailey's book "The Perfect Puppy", have you? ;) That's one of the better books for a first-time puppy owner (and also those needing a refresher course!).

NO THE ONE I HAVE TO HAND IS A COLLINS BOOK CALLED ENGLISH SPRINGER SPANIELS BY YVONNE BILLOWS.

I've very rarely read a puppy book.  I assess when I - as a breeder - think my puppies are ready to leave and in a gundog breed where they are physically and mentally slower maturers, I feel 8 -10 weeks is the optimum age for them.

You cannot make a sweeping statement on what time is optimum - as per these 'puppy' books - because all breeds have their own foibles and I doubt Gwen Bailey would know all the individual traits of every breed.

SBTs (which is what the OP is asking about) are different to Springers - they have a different breed temperament. Likewise Springers shouldn't be compared to Chihuahuas or Danes. A SBT breed book would have more relevant information in this case. :)

Even better would be to heed the information about buying a SBT pup on the Breed Council pages, and maybe contact them for specialist information. :)

(By the way, please could you take your caps lock off? It makes your posts difficult to read. Thanks!)

Another page of interest from that site.

I am relatively new to my breed, having only campaigned one dog. 
I had a lady approach me at Crufts and asked if she could see my dogs pedigree and health certificates.  I was shocked when she said she had been watching him in the ring for 18 months   This to me is how it should be done.
I am now watching the puppy dogs in the ring at the moment for my bitch who won't be bred from for a long time, and that's if she passes all her health tests and matures how we are hoping, if she don't, then no harm done, but I wouldn't pick a stud dog any other way. 
I have a mentor who let me attend quite a few matings and be hands on before I even attempted to do it myself, trying to help a dog mate who is adamant he is in the right spot on the bitch's head isn't easy

That's an average, as has been pointed out that for some breeds a very little earlier would be appropriate and for some a lot later.

all i am saying id i think 8 weeks is an appropriate age, any younger i think is a little too young.

7 weeks is perfect for my bigger breed, I would never let a dog of any breed go earlier than that though.

everyone had different opinions of ages to let puppys go, and i have just always thought of it to be 8 weeks,

For my breed I'd prefer very slightly younger - between 7 and 8 weeks, because that's just before a fear period and when they start to need one-to-one training rather than being just part of a group. :)

Thanks for that link! I mentioned this earlier but had nothing to back it up with.

We have spoken to the breeder and he has confirmed all of his pups are all great later on in life so leaving at 7 weeks old is good for his puppies!
Feeling much better about taking him a few days early, as i worked out before we would be having him around 7 and a half weeks old, cant wait!

Just read that link as well, great stuff! :)

due to the breeder threatening to dunk the remainin 5 puppies in a bucket at 5 weeks, we took our lakelands in at 5 weeks and all without fail are exc. temps and very well adjusted. Although much too early to be leaving home, i have to say that the extra care and attention they got from us probably made them the best socialised and toughest pups i have ever had! the remaining 4 all gone to new homes and all brilliant temp.

Thats disturbing what the breeder said!!!
Why the hell would he do that?

Hopefully we will never have to take a puppy at 5 weeks, thats so young.....

Great you were there to save those little pups and take them on to be well adjusted adults, Good on you!!! :) :) :)

My freind had her first Dobe in similar situation the couple that had the litter had split up and the wife couldn't or wouldn't look after the pups so ex was going to drown them.  My freinds other ahlf was working next door and took a pup at four weeks old.

She wasn't even weaned and was the size of a can of baked beans.

Fortunately she was very well socialised with both people and dogs, though she had soem funny quirks, and ahted young pups.

She was wondrful and lived to over 13.  She was a very poor example of ehr breed except for having the most wonderful ears almost like a manchester terrier and very small and neat.

She would of done well in Europe then, could of pretended that they'd been done :d

No they were tipped over beautifully, but small not cropped/erect.

Many people believe that 7 weeks is the optimum time to leave the nest.  I certainly do and do not regret it.