Without being shouted down.....
We have had a long chat since last week about what breed we would go for as our next breed and after the advice on here and the problems that people are having in regards to owning the breeds that we have previously looked at we have decided to change our minds about getting them. We are now looking at gundogs, would a weimaraner be any more suitable?

I'm no expert on weims so I will say that they're a big change from a cavvy - VERY energetic, the few I've known were on the go all day.  One I knew quite well had about 10 miles' walk a day, two hours of the walking off-lead and full pelt running, and she still had energy left; during the day she went to work with the owners (4 mile round trip walking to get there and back), played at lunchtime with half a dozen other dogs and it didn't slow her down!

What I really posted to say was that I hope no-one tries to shout you down - I think it's a fantastic thing that you're asking about different breeds before you go out and get one of them.  Many, many more people would just get them - which is why so many end up in rescue, as I'm sure you know.  It's also the number 1 reason why my oldest bitch (dobe) has the issues she has - she was bought by a woman with zero knowledge about dogs at all, let alone dobes, and she said as much when I collected Soli.  If more potential owners sought out info from experienced owners like you are, I'd bet there'd be a lot less dogs in rescue - or even being bred in the first place.

Thanks for the reply Nikita,

It is important to us to gain advice from breeders and fellow owners as we aren't experts and we would hate to go ahead with a breed blind to the pitfalls, because i help in rescue i can see the results of those decisions!:rolleyes:

I must admit i had a little chuckle at the thought of going on a 10 mile walk with a weim and our cavvy, i can imagine that at least half the way i would be carrying our cavvy!!

We would really like two breeds that were slightly similar although i appreciate that if we get a larger dog as the second breed they will always have more exercise requirements.

Are there any larger dogs that anyone could recommend with a cavvy?

How about one of the larger spaniels? A show-type cocker or springer (they tend not to be as 'enthusiastic' ;) as the working types)? A cavalier is a spaniel after all, and benefits from plenty of exercise just like its larger relations. :)

why dont you try something like a sussex spaniel, they are very nice and rare.

There is no reason why your cavy shouldnt have the same exercise as a larger dog, when I was younger my family had afghans and a bichon, the bichon got the same exercise as the Afghans and obviously he couldnt keep up with them off lead but he could easily do a 10 mile walk with them and still be ready to go again.  Likewise I have been looking after my friends toy poodle who she said will only need a trot round the garden, she was getting the same exercise as my Irish Setters and was more than happy (the only thing she didnt like was brambles and muddy puddles :rolleyes: )

A weimaraner is not for the fainthearted.

Numerous BREED GUIDES can be located on our main Breeder Site.

You will also locate breed club information under each breed. All sources of information on any breed you may consider.

As your cav is still only 6 months old and your two children are very small (are they both under 5s - can't remember!)  - are you doing your research now with a view to getting another dog in a year or so?   That would be by far the best thing, imo!

Margot

Not all large breeds need more exercise than small breeds!  I have an Estrela Mountain Dog and she is really quite lazy and chilled out.  I doubt she will ever need more than an hour a day, although she can do more if I want her to once she's fully grown. 

Also, greyhounds are quite large but don't require huge amounts of exercise, if I remember rightly.

I have a friend with a Weimeraner, she didn't train it when it was a puppy and it basically runs rings around her.  It barks constantly, runs around the house knocking over her children.  Once I caught it standing on the dining room table eating crisps out of a bowl after a kid's party!  It also needs three walks a day, one of which is always 60-90 minutes, because it is hyperactive otherwise.  They are gorgeous, lovely dogs, but training  (and plenty of available time for walking) is essential.

I would also recommend going to Crufts or Discover Dogs once you have a shortlist and talk to some owners to find out the true story!

Spot on with the greyhound alicey, they aren't known as "40 mile an hour couch potatoes" for nothing! :D  There was a stall for the Lincs greyhound trust outisde my local PAH recently and they confirmed that.  20 minute walk twice a day is plenty.

Sounds nice to me - of my lot, two (dobe and labXcollie) would happily walk for 3 or 4 hours a day if I could do it (can't because of walking the pack in two pairs at the moment, just not enough time), one (rottXcollie) would walk for 2 hours, and the other (weird dobe) would not walk at all - I take him because he needs to get in shape (as do I :D) and he doesn't half whine otherwise as he gets bored. :rolleyes: No pleasing some dogs!

I know what you may enjoy; Discover Dogs. When I was deciding what breed to get I spent ages in the DD section of Crufts. I really liked the sound of many breeds but at DD you can talk to the breed specialists and meet the dogs in person. If you're trying to decide on a breed that would be a good match for your cav and that both you and the OH like it's a great thing to do. Nothing can beat hands on experience with a breed and a chat with a responsible breeder to help you make a good choice. You can check out the website here.

I wouldn't recommend a Wei unless you've experienced another HPR gundog breed.   I have an HPR breed and from what I've seen/heard the Weimaraner is more headstrong than my breed and I've noticed at shows, a few don't have the best temperaments in the world.

I think the Spaniel sugestion is better, something like a Field, Clumber or Sussex, a good dependable breed but without some of the 'sharpness' or over enthusiasm of a working bred Cocker or Springer.    My sister's CKCS will walk as much as my Munsterlanders will unfortunately her coat collects 3 times as many burrs & twigs as my Munsters!

Fully adult Cavaliers (without/before heart problems obviously) are very capable of really long walks, and when mine were young I always walked them the same distance as the big dogs. My best friend in Sweden made her Blenheim bitch up into a Swedish Obedience Champion so she was worked a LOT, and there is a breeder of Cavaliers in Australia who has had several Endurance Champions. :D

I second the statement that Cavaliers aren't just lapdogs (though they're superb at that! :-D ). My two have both been on 9 or 10 mile walks with my OH, one of them also does obedience and has dabbled in a little agility. If you want something a little sturdier but not too manic, I also agree with the idea of a cocker - we have an American cocker who fits in with our 2 Cavs beautifully, though everyone thinks he's a Cav too! I do think with the puppy and 2 small children, it would be a mistake at this stage to get something as 'not for the fainthearted' as a Weimaraner, though I agree they are beautiful dogs!

Hi, I have to agree with Alicey you should go to Discover Dogs or crufts on Gun Dog day and speak to experienced owners of the breed who will give you an honest account of the breed.

We are lucky enough to have Kez on the Discover Dogs stand every year and it is good talk with people who are thinking about buying a GR, I can tell them the all about my family pet.

My GR best friend is a Cav so size doesn't matter

I have owned gun dogs for years however never owned HPR gun dog and IMO it is a whole new ball game. Good Luck in your search.

What about a Golden retriever? They are popular for a reason :D The weims I've met have all been a bit highly strung, and several have been snappy. I've never met a 'bad' goldie :)

I would generally agree a well bred golden is an excellent choice, sadly I have met a few, very few unstable aggressive ones.

>What about a Golden retriever? They are popular for a reason <

Well I'd second that but I could be seen as biased :-D Our platinum class at the training club is almost all CKCS with the exception of my golden. They all adore him and he plays lion statue so they can all have a snuggle. He plays very nicely with the cavs we meet on walks as well. I know there are some dodgy ones but if you go to a good breeder you're more likely to end up with one like mine, a marshmallow in fur :-D

:)  There aren't many breeds where adult males actually like puppies, or encourage them to play with them. I was looking through Goldmalis website the other day and was smiling at the pics of her goldie encouraging the malinois puppies to climb all over him.

If you think of the hundreds, possibly thousands, of dogs you meet. Walking down the country park every day, going to shows etc. I think Golden retrievers are one of the very few breeds where I've never met a nasty one.

Unlike yours Lori this is an unbiased opinion :D as GRs are very different from my two breeds.

Any breed could possibly live with a cav, I've had chinese cresteds happily living with my borzois, but at the same time it could have problems with the same cav. I think a golden retriever would be the closest thing you could get to a safe bet if the OP wants a big dog.

I was looking through Goldmalis website the other day and was smiling at the pics of her goldie encouraging the malinois puppies to climb all over him.

:D :D Simba just LOVES babysitting!

Your GR's are just beautiful - I love their colouring and Simba has just the most wonderful face

I looked at those pics for ages Marianne, having only really owned collies or borzois all my life I find it hard to imagine an adult male that's that soppy, it's absolutely lovely to see :)

Oh they are chaumsong. My big golden is the training club puppy greeter. It doesn't matter what they do to him he just remains calm and steady. Barky pups soon shut up and relax; he speaks calming signal in about 10 languages I think. :-D When out and about he plays with pups of any age and never has a harsh word for them or puts a paw out of place.

It was the same with the sire of my foundation Elkhound bitch, he was just so god with puppies.  Some males are afraid of pups that still try to suckle but all the ones I know are just great at being playmates for pups, more so than the girls who will try to discipline if they have had pups themselves.

A male I bred that comes here when needed to be used at stud has been here on several occasions when pups have been around (not his) once a 10 week last pup and the other time when I had aweaned litter and he was great with them, and my girls were fine with him being around the babies, so I took their word for it .

I too have never met a nasty Golden, and although I have been involved with Flat-coats for 10 years, I have also been priviledged to have shared my life with two beautiful Goldens, who both reached the age of 15 years. They had the most wonderful natures and when we had pups, my boy was their adored 'uncle'.He loved pups clambering over him and was eternally patient with them. One of the saddest things I read on here, is people talking about nasty Goldens, those two words just shouldn't go together! I don't doubt that there are some dodgy lines in the breed, but on balance they are a wonderful family pet. I think anyone who knowingly continues to breed from suspect stock, should be hung , drawn and quartered! To defile this lovely breed is in MHO absolutely criminal!

Linda

Agree 100%, and in all breeds.

   Agree 100%, and in all breeds

Ditto,

Linda

I will third that, Like your's Lori Kez plays so well with the Cav I walk with, he is so aware of her size and so gentle then in the next breath he plays with his other friend an Irish wolfhound and he plays in a different manner

However I have met the odd few that have been a little grumpy ! and it always surprises me because 95% of the time they have the same nature and character as Kez

I would not be without him, he is good with the young and old, great with other dogs and is a pleasure to have around the house

Not a good match, as very very different.  Weims are also very prone to seperation anxiety as they hate being left.  Of all the Gundogs I have met they also seem to be most dog dominant, but that may just be the ones I KNOW.

One of my Gordon Setter's breeder has a Cavalier!

Jill

One of my past pups (now 7) owners has Gordons as a first breed, and I think them absolutely charming.  As pups of course they are a bit clumsy, but very good natured and the ones I know are gentle with smaller dogs.

Thanks for all the advice

We are doing our research in advance because once we have decided on our breed then we will need to find a breeder then we will need to wait for the right puppy to come along so i imagine that will take quite a while anyway.

We do also like Goldens so they were also in the running

We asked about Weims because we know someone who shows them and her mother owns Cavvys and they get on well but that may be because they don't live together all the time!:rolleyes:

Yes Weims are very striking and have a beautiful coat and whilst i am more than happy to put in the time with training and am happy to exercise a dog alot it would not be great for us to go with a breed that wouldn't gel as well with our little boy as it is equally important for him to be happy with our choice.

We have only been walking him twice a day for 20-30 minutes a time but he seems more than happy with that and is tired when we get home, it is nice to know that we can walk him alot more when he is older we will try and be led by him. I didn't think it was right when one of the cavvy breeders we spoke to told us they didn't need to be walked!:rolleyes:

We think our little boy is quite highly strung also, he is very funny he has a fabulous little walk, refuses to play with puppy toys and will only eat the best treats!

My eldest daughter is now starting to get involved in the training (the easier bits) which is great, she is incredibly caring with animals for her age which is great i'm hoping she'll end up helping in rescue also.

I love getting out and walking and exercising my dogs,but a weim would be toooo much energy for me.There are dogs that enjoy walks but arent bothered if they dont get their alloted 2 hours a day,or whatever it is.Then there are other dogs who demand they get 2 or 3+ hours each day and go nuts if they dont get it and are a complete pain to have around if they arent exercised enough,thats alot of pressure to have hanging over you every single day.

Here are some breeds off the top of my head,please bear in mind i'm not personally familiar with the personalities of each,so there could be some wrong choices in there:

Bull mastiffs(big,lazy,soppy softies)
Gordon setter (dont know much about their exercise needs,they just remind of large cavvies :D )
cocker spaniel
American cocker
Golden retriever
Bernese mountain dog(easy going nature,beautiful dogs with kids)

There are probs loads more that would fit in with your family,these are just my personal favourites :D

However,i still stand by my previous suggestion of getting another dog of similar size and temp of your current dog :)

It's a good list Ktee for the OP all bar the Bullies I think. I've got a friend who breeds them, and yes they can be big softies, but you do have to be very diligent about their upbringing and socialisation to ensure they are. Even the best brought up adult males aren't always very good with other dogs ime.

Just to clarify the last post. My friends dogs have lovely temperments and have never started a fight, however they are not very tolerant of other snappy dogs - they strike me as being slow to anger but a handful when they get there.

We may still get another cavvy but we would ideally like a bigger dog this time. :rolleyes:

Unfortunately we are away when the discover dogs is on which is a pain as it looks like the sort of thing that we would really benefit from but we are in no rush so we can wait for the next one.

I think my first choice would be a shorter coated breed, a weim would not be for us as it seems too different to our cavvy!

It is obviously very important that the next breed we choose is also very good with children (although training obviously has a large part to play in that)

If you're away for DD you can go to Crufts in March. They have a DD section set up there. I spent hours in there last time I went. :)

Thats good we will have to ensure we book a trip back to the UK when it is on.

If you can go during the week and avoid the weekend crowds you'll be able to move around better. It can get kind of squashy at Crufts! Plus Friday the 7th is gundog day :)

It's awful when small dog breeders say stuff like that - I'm sure even Yorkies / chihuahuas / Pekes benefit from a nice run. When I show my Cavs it is common for the judge to express pleased surprise at the muscle and condition of my dog - not over muscled, but nice and fit. Yes, they're not collies, and if it's pouring with rain we can skip a day and they'll just curl up on the sofa, but they always love to go for walks. :-)

If we didn't walk our little boy he would be climbing the walls he is very very excitable and rarely sits still!:rolleyes: The trainer at our class said to me that he is the most excitable cavalier she has ever met!:rolleyes: He was like that when we got him as a pup which is why we make sure he is walked

I've got to add that my golden Jasper is wonderful with all other dogs, the rescues that we foster occasionally he makes feel very welcome, and when we have pups visiting he just play bows and sniffs them - as for Henry who is a collie X - he is not that accepting of other dogs in the house, he will growl and walk away, but outside he will tolerate them.

I'd go for a golden :) :) :)

I've just been looking at Lori's pictures of Milo and he is gorgeous!!

I think i am being sold on a golden....just need to work on hubby next!!!

Milo thanks you and Caoimhe is kicking me for not updating her pages. If you're worried about the hair they don't take that much grooming. I brush them out while watching the TV at night. It only takes a few minutes if you do it every 1-3 days. Marianne could comment on this but the impression I get is there is far less to do with a golden's coat than a cavalier's. They also drop less hair than many short hair breeds and it's easy to vacuum. I think a golden from a good breeder would be a great choice. :-D

Agree with Lori, Jasper gets brushed about 3-4 times a week and doesn't shed much hair at all, now Henry (collie X) sheds lots :rolleyes:
There is only one drawback to goldens that I've found and that is they love the dirtiest, filthiest, smelliest water to roll in so do need to shower them pretty regularly!

All goldies must be build the same LOL, mine loves water too no matter what it smells like I brush Kez about fours times a week and does help a lot when he is losing his coat, not so much floating around

Yep if I didn't watch her and tell her no on time my Friends golden would lie down in any puddle she could find.  I once couldn't get her to come out of the river for an hour and twenty minutes i just left and she came running :D

I don't try to stop mine from mud-puddling - they live for it. Teaching 'get in' to the shower is the best command my dogs know :-D I have Milo to the point where he turns around on command to get the other side hosed off. Either that or you always end your walk at the deep end of the river for the rinsing hippo immitation. :)

Marianne could comment on this but the impression I get is there is far less to do with a golden's coat than a cavalier's. They also drop less hair than many short hair breeds and it's easy to vacuum.

Yes a Cavalier does need more grooming, their coat grows long and can easily mat behind the ears, on the trousers, feathering, on the stomach, even the tail.  It's rare for Goldens to mat even if it can happen.

Now I must say my Cavaliers have all shed very little, but the Goldens have varied. Dandy sheds a LOT LOT LOT, but obviously only twice a year. But he has a VERY long coat, the fur on his stomach basically hits the ground, and he has these really tight Shirley Temple curls all over him, masses and masses of coat, so when he sheds, you know ALL about it! This isn't the most common Golden coat.

Although it has to be said, the very WORST nightmare shedders are the Malinois and Mali crosses (they have the same coat, the crosses). Thank goodness it's only twice a year as what comes off one dog looks like it had come off about a hundred!! You wouldn't think it of a shorthaired breed, but it's the double coat, with the undercoat coming out.

Now finally just one word of caution. Generally speaking Goldens and Cavaliers are a great mix -but there ARE still size differences to take into account, and a lot will hinge on how the dogs behave. (A note on the sizes: Taking it to the very extremes, a small Cavalier can weigh as little as 6 kgs, a big Golden as much as 40 kgs. More common is perhaps 8-10 kg for the Cavalier and 25-35 for the Golden, depending on sex.) When I got Rufus, my first Cavalier, he loved playing with my existing, already adult, Goldens. In fact there is a photo on my website on the photo page of him as a pup sticking his head into a big Golden mouth to  nick a tennis ball, and another where he tries to nick a ragger out of the same dog's mouth LOL. :D

But then I got a new Golden puppy when Rufus was 18 months old -Dandy. At first they loved playing together. But as Dandy grew, Rufus stayed the same size of course, and at about 6 months of age Dandy was MUCH bigger than Rufus but still a young very playful pup, and he did not understand that he could no longer play with Rufus in the same way he used to. It was too rough for Rufus, due to the size difference, and eventually Rufus refused point blank to go for walks with Dandy. He would go on his own, never again with Dandy. He was that scared of being knocked over as it happened frequently. That's when we got a second Cavalier so he had a friend his own size and since then we have always had at least 2 small dogs.

On the other hand you have dogs like Simba, my other male Golden, who just instinctively KNOWS to be gentle with smaller dogs.

I would agree with everyone about the weims - I got a HPR breed as my first dog (german shorthaired pointer) and they are VERY intelligent, VERY strongwilled and VERY energetic. And I have heard similar about weims.

Goldens are lovely. :) I've got friends with them and they're really cuddly and so laid back they'll probably fall off!!!!  I have met the odd nasty one in my life, though far outweighed by the lovely ones - I'd just be careful where you got one. :)  You could consider flatcoats too ;) - similar to goldens in some ways but a bit more loopy, like lots of attention but are lovely loving family dogs.