As I said in another thread recently, Bailey has been under the Vet for his breathing problem (Laryngeal Paralysis)

The treatment we are currently trying is called Corvental-D, otherwise known as Theophylline. I paid £40.10  to the Vet for a months worth of the capsules (30). I found them in one of the internet vet pharmacies for £26.05. So I decided that if this treatment works, I'll ask my vet for a prescription.

At work today, I looked up the drug Theophylline, as used in human medicine, same dose same amount of capsules..............wait for it....................

£4.46. HOW COME?  I'm furious. 

Dawn R.

I know, it's terrible isn't it.  I'm sorry overheads just don't figure!  In Ireland many medications etc. are much cheaper are you telling me that their overheads are a lot less/??

We have a vet near us that does many procedures about half the price of other local vets!

To be fair, actually overheads are less in Ireland. The premises vets rent or own in cities especially in this country are very expensive, whereas in Ireland property prices are much, much lower.

Because since a change in the law (so blame the Government of the day) about 10 years ago vets can only prescribe medicines that have been specially licenced for use in animals. They can't prescribe the human version, even if it's exactly the same.

Does that mean the vets have to pay more for them?

Yes. Branded medicines are always more expensive than the generic drug.

I think the differnce in price reflects the extra testing they have to do for the animal form, (not that thats an excuse, ) but all animal alternatives tend to be more expensive for vets to buy in, but they have to use them.

Extra testing? Surely if any extra testing were neccessary, it would be for the human version. I use the word version loosely because Theophylline is Theophylline, and doesn't come in versions.

Dawn R.

Humans are only one species; animals are many, so all need to be tested.

I believe vets have access to cheaper drugs. A lot are buying them in from Ireland now where they seem to be a lot cheaper. I met one of my vets drug reps in the reception one day and chatted to her for a few mins while we both waited to me see at the desk. She was over from ireland doing her rep tour :-)

Our puppy recently had a growth on his shoulder, which turned out to be a 'histiocytoma'.  The vet gave us some 1% hydrocortisone to try, and charged £20.  It was normal human medicine, which even came with the standard human instruction leaflet!  That's £3.29 in Boots!

Similarly, a friend of mine works in the pharmaceutical industry and had a labrador that was diagnosed with diabetes.  His vet could only prescribe one particular type of insulin, which was 4 times the retail cost of another (just as effective) type that my friend could get.

Did the £20 include the consultation?  Insulin is prescription only so not sure how your friend can get it.  If you mean you friend could obtain human insulin it would probably come under the same difficult of only being able to prescribe certain brands.

Well I don't know about Flying Gribble, but my £40.10 was for medication only,my bill was £54 and change that day, and I still think it's disgusting that veterinary medicines are so much more expensive across the board. There is no argument that I will accept. I paid over £40 for something I could get for £26 on ''the net'' and the human eqivilent costs £4.46. It's daylight robbery.

Dawn R.

I guess the Government feel they are making it safer for animals that drugs have to be specifically trialled for their use but there is no doubt it has created hardship for those whose dogs were on long term drugs that had previously been very much cheaper.  As to costing less if you buy them "on line", vets source about 20% of their turnover from pharmaceutical sales, if you remove that income it would just have to be converted to other treatments or investigations in order for the business to remain viable. 

So we're stuffed then Isabel. One way or another they've got us. I'll shut up now, there's no point in doing anything else.

Dawn R.

I know how you feel Dawn :)  My dog is currently on Vivitonin and Vetmedin, both very expensive drugs.  As she is also on Frusemide, Enalapril and her slow deterioration means regular, sometimes, fortnightly re-evaluations my monthy bills are considerable but my vet is hard working and excellent and we have been with her for years.  I don't really want to support the businesses that cream of the more profitable areas of veterinary care so I feel I just have to take in on the chin and tot it up against all the years that she has cost me nothing, apart from vaccinations, in healthcare.

Nope it didn't include the consultation.  That was another £20. :rolleyes:

So we're stuffed then Isabel. One way or another they've got us. I'll shut up now, there's no point in doing anything else.
That is just the way of the world with everything these days though, nothings cheap. Trouble is we know that vets bills are expensive when we take on a dog so its a responsibility we take on. Vets have to make a profit, and no, not many vets are making huge profits, most are lucky to break even. This is why i always advise people to take out insurance.

Vets have to make a profit, and no, not many vets are making huge profits, most are lucky to break even. This is why i always advise people to take out insurance.

Are you serious :-D  Some vets make massive profits. Mines certainly do.  £550-£800 flat fee for a section depending on Weight plus any other costs makes them money.   To me that is at least £ 300  -£550 profit. Taken all overheads into account.

Vets train for years to become qualified, and have higher entry qualifications for uni than medical students do, where would we be without them sometimes? I don't see (m)any vets buying mansions for a few million but I do see a lot of young footballers, actors and singers doing just that. IMHO they deserve to make a decent living from the profession and if that means I have to pay for insurance then OK, thats what I will do. If they are in certain areas then it can cost an absolute fortune in overheads as property is so expensive and staff costs can escalate when employers NI contributions are taken into account.

I personally think that is like saying two wrongs make a right.   "some" vets per hour are making more than solicitors and they don't train as long as a Solicitor. ( I mean a real one) not someone who has done a 2-3 year conveyancing degree.

The point is, yes treatment should be reasonable and I agree anyone who has taken the time to study and gain a profession deserves to gain benefits and a good standard of living from it,  but I don't believe services to the public should inflated beyond reason. I have 2 practices that stand 2 miles from each other in equally good locations and with equal size of floor space. Once charges twice the price in nearly everything of the other.

Your arguement doesn't defend this In my opinion :-)

Everyone likes to be paid well so do I , we all  like nice things but nobody likes to see daylight robbery..

As for the footballers, well that is another silly thing that goes on this country. :-) 

A solicitor has never saved my dogs life - a vet has! no contest as far as I'm concerned :D

Once charges twice the price in nearly everything of the other. - so go to the cheaper one and let market forces sort it out. We have the same in our area but the cheaper one is a 'farm' vet and isn't really interested in pet animals - yes he will see pets but don't expect any service or explanation of what is wrong with your pet. I prefer the other vets as although they charge a bit more, they spend time explaining things to me and will discuss alternatives - in other words I'm not made to feel like a bl***y nuisance. You pays your money and you takes your choice :D

nobody likes to see daylight robbery I agree there are a lot of very greedy people out there but I haven't any real idea what the costs of overheads for a vet are, I do know that my husband (a joiner) has to pay £10000+ a year for public liability insurance - a huge amount for any small business, and the health and safety and other courses his employees now have to attend don't come cheap either (£300+ per day & a days lost earnings for every employee).

That is why people who are smart and run businesses hire clever accountants ;-)

Market force doesn't help the elderly who don't drive , or the ignorant who don't know. 

Can't you see that this is why the insurance premiums are so high.  Someone will say but it is because the claims have increased but that isn't the reason. People have to claim because the vet fees are so high. What used to be below the excess amount is now above that to.  :-)

Yes I agree, but insurance premiums have also increased because people now get treatments for dogs that a few years ago would not even have been possible - look at all the dogs on here who have been treated for cancer - a few years ago treatment would not even have been an option the animal would have been PTS. I'm sure there are many other illnesses that would have been allowed to run their course. The insurance companies are also making vast profits - make no mistake there will be far more poor vets than poor insurance companies out there - lets face it- if there was no money in it the insurance companies wouldn't touch it with the proverbial barge pole. The drug companies aren't out there with a begging bowl either - yet another area where vast profits are being made. 

I feel sorry for the elderly who can't afford treatments  (not the ignorant, no excuse for ignorance :D :D ) but some vets do make arrangements for elderly customers - the insurance companies on the other hand will just try to find a way to wriggle out of paying them :-( .

A solicitor needs a 3 year law degree plus 1 year further training (4 years as a student) followed by 2 years as a paid junior with a salary. vets do 5 or 6 years as a student (also working unpaid in every vacation, so no chance to do Summer jobs as other students do) before being eligible to begin  paid work as a junior vet.
Also to get a place at vet school you need all As at A level, and quite a bit of unpaid work experience before you even apply, so many student vets will already have taken another year out to do unpaid work with animals.
Whether some vets chage an unfair amount, I can't say, but these are the facts of the training required.

The over heads for most vet practices are huge, just think what your money is paying for, x amount of vets working all hours, x amount of nurses, x amount of receptionists and cleaning staff, building maintenance, rates and bills, cost of buying and updating equipment not to mention maintanence costs for eqipment, cost of cpd (continuing professional development - compulsory for all vets), annual fee that allows them to practice as a vet, and probably a lot more. I don't believe vets are making illions when you take all that into account, particularly when they have to buy in the drugs at quite a price anyway so hardly any money comes from this. Just imagine how much x ray and scanning equipment costs, the money to fund such vital equipment has to come from somewhere.
If you didn't have the NHS i think you would be shocked at how much everything would cost!

>If you didn't have the NHS i think you would be shocked at how much everything would cost!

Ain't that the truth! People forget that they should compare vet costs with those of private human medicine - they'd soon realise how much mediical treatment really costs!

Who'd go to a vet that had no operating theatre, or x-ray machine? How much do those cost to set up, before the first client has even crossed the threshold? It's all got to be bought in advance, and then paid off, including, of course, the interest on the loan.

Do you know how much the fax machines cost these days ;-)

Having been in several different solicitors' offices this year (and I used do the accounts for our solicitor friend years ago), I can confirm that the office machinery is the oldest that I have seen in an office for many years :D :D :D Certainly don't spend the money keeping things up-to-date nor need to compared to vets :D :D :D

Daisy

:-) :-)

A solicitor needs a 3 year law degree plus 1 year further training (4 years as a student) followed by 2 years as a paid junior with a salary.

Maybe that seems very simple in your neck of the woods ;-)

( England is one the easiest country in the world to practice some areas of law with basic law qualifications, most other countries require you to be fully qualified in all all areas and a lot more qualifications than above)

a FULLY qualified solicitor studies,  for 4 years, Most firms would not even go to the 2nd page of a CV with a basic law degree of 3 years most require at the min, Hons which is 4 years and even at that they want an LLB Hons. If you undertake the LLB you have to start at 1st year there are no exceptions even with a basic law degree. You then ( in England) do a year ( MIN) Legal practice course then ( in England again)  have to do 2 year ( MIN)  in a Trainee role ( They sometimes call it junior in England but that confuses most people it is a trainee position) after you do your 2 years as a trainee you are only then actually taken on as a as a Junior, you also have to complete the your Professional skills course. Which generally is spread over 6-12 months.

Not quite as cut and dry as I think you have worded it. Funding on the top courses is limited , a belief that only the cream of the crop make it through to the top spots so funding is only given to those.

To get on a 1st year LLB course in any decent university you have to have exemplary exam passes. O-grade, standard grade A-levels depending on where you are in the UK. 

> Hons which is 4 years and even at that they want an LLB Hons

?????? Not as far as I know. Most decent degrees are Hons. and take 3 years :) A lot of solicitors don't have law degrees - any degree will do, but it then takes a 2 year law conversion course, rather than a 1 year required of someone with a law degree :)

I know quite a few trainee solicitors and they vary considerably from Cambridge/Oxford degrees to 2:2s from not very good unis :D

Daisy

Should have added that this is in England :)

In Scotland an honours degree takes 4 years as students can start directly after Highers (AS levels in England) An ordinary degree in Scotland takes 3 years. Although the government wanted to change it to Advanced higher level (Similar to A-level) the universities still look for Higher results. As a result students from England could(in theory) be accepted into 2nd year at a Scottish University. So Blue is quite right from a Scottish perspective.

Current entry requirements from Edinburgh Uni are AAABB at higher or AAB at A level for BVMS (5 years + pre entry experience)
AAAAB  at higher or AAB at a level for Medicine (5 year course)
BBBB at higher for Law(BBB at A level)  (LLB) (4 year course)

Of course these are the minimum requirements, a friend of my daughter applied for medicine with 5 A pass highers and various school subject medals. He has not been offered a place for this year so the competition amongst the brightest is high. And there are far more places for Law and medicine than for Vet medicine.

I think that the level of academic attainment for solicitors is far more varied than for medecine (human or vet) :) :)

Daisy

Don't they specialise more, than a vet anyway?  My property chap handed me over to someone else in the firm to do my will.  A vet would not hand me over to her colleague if I turned up with a cat for a change :)

A small practice solicitor will cover everything. Larger firms have solicitors just dealing with conveyancing, wills, criminal. divorce etc. In very large city firms, the specialisation is even more. In some ways a bit like vets - but, obviously, there are far more solicitors and some VERY big firms of solicitors :)

Daisy

There are eight partners in the firm I use.  Is that big?  I don't know.

Just having a look at their qualifications, just out of interest, not sure what it contributes :)
3 x LLBs, 1 x MA (Oxon), 2 x BAs and 2 claiming nothing at all.

Some 'solicitors' aren't actually qualified :) :) I think that they have to work under a qualified solicitor to do certain work - but I'm not sure :) The MA (Oxon) is possibly/probably only equivalent to a BA from any other university. My son has an MSci from Cambridge and will be given an MA next year for doing nothing - apart from managing to live for three years after graduating :D :D All Cambridge graduates come out with BAs and get an MA automatically - I think that it is the same from Oxford :D :D

Daisy

Probably average for a reasonable size town - i would have thought :) About the same as the firm that our friend recently retired from. When I worked for him nearly 20 years ago, he was the only partner. Other friends family 'firm' now has 21 partners operating from 6 offices. The local firm that I am using currently for probate has only two :) :) Just looked up a City firm that we use at work - they have 1100 employees of which 600 are lawyers :D :D :D

Daisy

Sorry, my only experience is in England.
Here it is actually very hard to get on a vet course (harder than a law degree), and 5 or 6 years of university degree  with no funding, whatsoever, (fees and living expenses must be paid) (and no time off, as all vacations are taken up with unpaid work experience) followed by work in a junior position. This compares to 3 year degree plus one year full-time or 2 years part time (so can work part time for money), followed by 2 years as a junior, or maybe called a trainee, but this is a paid position.
You may be talking about other countries, but the above is true in England.

I think vets do make a comfortable living but, like you say, the entrance level and qualification is very high so if the rewards were not conmensurate with that it is likely that those high achievers would look for careers elsewhere and would we honestly like to see something as complex as veterinary care conducted on our animals by anyone less accademic?

>Taken all overheads into account.

Wouldn't you need an indepth study of their books to appreciate all the overheads? :)  There are many extras apart from the obvious estates and clinical practice costs such as continuing updates for clinical and support staff, professional insurances etc.  I sure there are lots more we cannot think of.