hi I am hoping someone can give me some advice about golden retrievers. We are almost at the point of deciding that a GR puppy would be a perfect addition to our family. Had a Gr rescue years ago and although she was dog aggressive (due to past experiences we think) she was completely perfect at home, sweet and loving to our cats and all people until she died of old age. Our CKCS whom we brought up from a puppy died last summer just a few months short of her third birthday. She had epilepsy for six months and although we tried everything (thank goodness for petplan) nothing could control the fits and they got worse and worse. It was just horrible in every way and hugely traumatic for all of us. apologies for drifting off subject of GRs but do want to get breed choice completely right.
We are going to visit a breeder on friday - not sure if it would be the thing to mention by name on here. I have seen posts on champdogs from people asking specifically if she was still breeding as they wanted another one of her dogs. Her name was given to me by the breed club for the area in which I live. I think she has done judging and seems to have been breeding GRs for many years. She has many puppies right now (only GRs).
During my research I have heard in many places that there have been incidences of sudden aggression towards people in this breed for no reason. Gwen bailey's perfect puppy was my bible for my CKCS and in her book of breed profiles she also mentions possession guarding aggression in "some lines". I mentioned this to the breeder and she said she had never heard of it, then she said "well some dogs do go for each other in the ring but mine never do". So how can I find out which these lines are? I don't want to offend anyone or cast slurs where none should be cast but I DO want to find out how big a problem this in in the breed and specifically if her lines have ever shown this trait. It isn't just possession guarding aggression that I've heard about either - it is attacking people for no reason aggression - am really hoping someone here can help

All dogs are likely to be possessive and guard certain things (of high value in their opinion!) unless they're trained from an early age that there's no need to be. 'Resource guarding' as it's known is totally different to dogs (usually but not always entire males) 'having a go' in the ring. That has more to do with hormones - there could be a bitch close to or even (shame on the owner) actually in season at the show which will naturally affect dogs, especially those which have been used at stud.

Your best bet is to be guided by the breed club - they know their members and their lines better than anyone.

Must admit the aggresive ones I have known or heard of were poorly bred putely commercially as it is a popular breed. 

There is no rule preventing in season bitches being shown at conformation shows so at any show where several thousand canies may be present there are bound to be a few in season bitches around which makes males that are otherwise freindly to all up on their toes and easily aroused, and competitive with other males.

Must admit the aggresive ones I have known or heard of were poorly bred putely commercially as it is a popular breed

i have come across this too...had a few in rescue and amongst owners in the Kent area.

There is a GR puppy farm in Kent..

It's very rare for Goldens to be aggressive and almost all that are originate from puppy farms/petshops. There is the odd line that has thrown out some dodgy temperaments though, but not as bad as you describe. If you'd like to PM me the breeder's name/Kennel name I can look into the lines a bit. However one question: you say this breeder has "many puppies" right now. Many as in several litters? How many? That is one thing I'd be a bit wary about and would query, most reputable breeders will only have one litter at a time, in order to be able to give those pups all their attention.

Ditto to the above, I do know of lines in todays Goldens that I personally wouldn't touch.

thanks to everyone who's replied so far - it's been very helpful! In case we decide not to get one of these puppies, any other personal breeder recommendations in the suffolk area with litters now or in the near future would be most welcome

Just to say all the Goldies I know are very friendly and not at all aggressive - greedy, yes! :-) Also to say epilepsy isn't a common breed problem in Cavs, but I can imagine how such a sad experience would put you off the breed. Cavs problems are normally hearts and syringomyelia.

I know a behaviourist who has started seeing cases of aggressive goldens. Unfortunately they were in the Suffolk area; just goes to show that bad breeding can affect any breed's temperament and no matter which breed you get you should choose your breeder wisely.

Afraid to say Goldmali that my Vet in Berkshire used to pts more Goldies with bad temperament than any other breed! :(  Shocking eh?  I can remember when a Goldie was the perfect family pet. 

But as with all breeds the most important thing is to buy from an experienced, knowledgable breeder and not from a backyard breeder or someone breeding from their pet.

The right Goldies still are the perfect pet, as others have said you just have to be sure of the breeder and line.  Our Goldies temperament is wonderful she is the best behaved dog w've ever had (always had Springers before) she isn't even greedy.

I've had 2 goldens both GREEDY both WONDERFUL TEMPERAMENTS perfect family pet in my eyes :)

I'm lucky to have wonderful Goldie too, great with kids/people (he is a PAT dog), loves other dogs (maybe a little to much when we are in the park ), he is'nt greedy either, never been possessive of anything, overall I would class him as very well adjusted fella and I would not be without him.

However I did look into his breeding and lines, I became friends with the breeder too, I waited over 12 months for him to arrive that was 2yrs 7 months ago and I don't regret being patient one bit.

Good luck with your search

I know a lovely golden now 15 years old.

She was in a home where she was kept outside as once the owner realised that they shed hair she wouldn't allow her in the house.

My friend got her at a year old.

She wasn't well socialised and had some issues.

She was food aggressive and would lash out if anyone came near the cupboard that had her food in.

She also hated other dogs, and would attack any that sniffed her, and was very suspicious of men and would snap if they tried to touch her.

My Friend soon made it clear that she would have none of the guarding, she was banned from the kitchen if she tried to guard, and over time when she realised that no-one would steal her food she calmed down about it.  With bones she used to guard them, but a bit of trust and discipline (she would be called away from her prize given a treat and Bone taken away, and returned later and the process repeated).  Once she was relaxed about her bones then you could say Ruby give it here, and she would oblige.

As for other dogs she feel in love with my first home bred Elkhound pup, so we started visiting her house with pup, and then took Mum too.  She went for my adult a few times, but my girl didn't react (it was all bluff on Golden's part) and she was praised when she was good with her, and scolded slightly if she tried to bully.

I started taking her out for walks with mine.  She built up her canine social skills and quite soon realised she didn't need to over react to other dogs.  she was a confident bitch so they didn't bother her much.  She loved to play and was a Peter Pan.  Each of my pups outgrew her emotionally and she would play with the current youngest like a pup.

A couple of years ago she damaged a cruciate ligament after turning sharply when playing with a young Springer Spaniel.

She is now a lovely 15 year old who goes for the odd toddle around the block as she limps on that leg, but can run around her own garden at speed and still does.

She has always had a strong character and I am the only one who can cut her nails.  I still take all my pups to see her, but have to watch she doesn't get too silly trying to play.

My Friend had a two year old granddaughter living with her at the time the one year old golden arrived, and a few years later another child was born into the household, she was always excellent with them.

The Goldens I have met have needed a lot of patience when young as they are exuberant clowns and easily distracted in their training, usually just over enthusiastic, but you do need to be firm in a kind way.

Three goldens where we walk. Two (who live together) are fine, but the other one was very nasty and getting worse and worse. They decided to have him castrated as a last resort (I didn't hold out much hope as he's 5 or 6 years old) but it's made the world of difference and he's just like your average dog now.

On a side note, I've noticed quite a lot of rather unfriendly labs about. There are two in particular (a yellow and a black) who have just started walking where we go. They come charging up at full pelt from some distance away, growling, snarling, hackles up, the lot, and body slam into my Dobe They both look rather over-sized to me so I suspect they are not from a particularly good source. My friend commented to the owner that they seemed aggressive, he just smiled and said "soft as lights" :rolleyes: There is another black lab there who is lovely - his whole rear end wags from side to side with his tail :D

Hi, There are a few Goldens with dodgy temps, certain lines that I am sure people within Goldens know only too well. I would take Marianne up on her offer of help tracing the lines back for you. When you see the breeder go on your gut instinct. Are the pups well socialised, is mum happy to see you with pups or is she shut away? Are the pups clean, well fed & happy. Where are they kept etc? Also make sure you see the KC/BVA certificates for hips and eyes and elbows if they do the elbows. Some breeders only do hips and eyes which are imperative to the GRs. Hip cert is on a green form, eye cert is white and should be current (within a year of issue) and ticked unaffected in the 4 boxes at the bottom. If they have elbow certs they will be on a gold form. If in any doubt at all about pups/breeder walk away

Once again I am so grateful for all this help. I have taken up several very kind offers from some of you who have gone to enormous trouble to go through the lines of these puppies - I can't say thank you enough to all of you. I know I will have to rely on my gut instinct tonight and now I also know to look at one of the litters only.
LucyD I know cavaliers don't have epilepsy as a general rule, and I actually haven't completely ruled out another if it turns out that there is no suitable golden for the next two years or so. (This isn't because I am impulse buying, it's just my youngest son is 15 now and it's an age when you could really do with someone to lick your face every now and again). If tonight feels wrong we might have another family conference. So far though, he is strongly resisting a cavalier, although really really wanting a dog, which I think has alot to do with the six month trauma of last year. Our golden died when he was nine, of old age, and although she was equally loved it was a very different experience. I'll post what happens

How did things go tonight ?

well - both litters were in a pen together - so there were fifteen of them, which made it pretty hard to see which were which, though each litter had been marked, and of course all puppies are beautiful!. They were in a pen outside, though they'd been indoors until last week. There was an outdoor part with a shaded roof, and an indoor part where they slept. There was the odd poo on the outside floor but she did apologise and said she'd been stuck on the phone for an hour before we'd got there and hadn't had time to clear up, and for that many puppies there really wasn't much. Before we were allowed to meet any of her dogs we had to have our shoes and hands sprayed with anti-bacterial stuff to protect against parvo virus (never had that done to me before). The mothers were really friendly, and most happy for us to look at their babies - they went in and out of the pen. We weren't actually allowed into the pen but we were allowed to stroke and handle them through the open gate - they were all really friendly and interested. She showed us the three bitches from the litter that one of you recommended and said she is having one to show but hasn't chosen yet though she is pretty sure, and another is going to the States, again to show, to someone who already has one of her dogs. she said we would be able to have the third bitch if we wanted. She has sold some of the puppies already - one of them who have had two already from her the first of which is now 11 yrs old. She told us about the different characters of each bitch in that  litter.

then she said would you mind meeting the other dogs, who were all in the house barking VERY enthusiastically at us so we met them over a babygate - there were eight, including the mothers who'd come back in, some males, some females, and they were all really really lovely friendly happy typical goldens offering us a variety of small plastic toy boots etc, licking, all pushing to get closest to us, but without the slightest sign of being hacked off with each other when one dropped a toy and another picked it up if you see what I mean.

she does have a contract where you get a week or so and then if you reaise you have made a terrible mistake she will take the puppy back and refund minus the cost of rehoming. After that she will try to help you find a home. She does rehoming checks for the GR rescue and is a judge. The house did smell doggy, but it wasn't a big house and there were alot of dogs. I think if they were in bad conditions we would have noticed them being more stressy with each other right?

I spoke to one v kind breeder from here by phone last night and she said sleep on it so I have, and my gut instinct is to say yes so am planning to phone later on today - will check first that the litter is kc registered and has all current certificates though the certificates part is mentioned on the website and am pretty sure they are kc registered

sorry for length of post, am trying to put in all details!

Sounds pretty much what you would expect if you visited me, though the one time I have had two litters together (never again but circumstances conspired) I had the pups strictly segregated so that potential owners would have no doubts I knew who was who   The Mums would have fed whichever litter/

It is perfectly normal especially with any larger breed that by five weeks they would be spending a goodly amount of time outdoors as they need the fresh air space, and they are poo machines.

Only one or two poos with 15 pups means that they were being constantly cleaned out :D

I would have not let you meet the pups until you had been trampled by the adults.

With the weather we have had, and with dogs in general you would expect to notice dog smell, though not pee smelling indoors.  Have to face it when you live with them you don't notice clean/wet dog smell but those who don't will.

When you have a litter, let alone two it is soo hard to keep on top of doggy smells, it is a constant battle.  bit.  for those who remember the days before disposable nappies, if you visited a house with a baby it always smelled of nappies soaking if the weather was foul.

As the pups are being picked for show I wouldn't be worrying about them not being KC registered, but of course it is important to see all the documents.

it wasn't a pee smell, it was more a "many dogs in a small house on a hot day" smell. We met the mothers first before we met the puppies. After hugging us quite alot, one of them offered me a small plastic boot, and the other settled herself on my 15 yr old's lap

Yep that's what I meant, normal dog smell as opposed to dirty dog smell.

Dogs are living breathing (farting)beings and have their own smell. 

Prefer their smell than those coming out of my sons bedroom on a morning, stinky feet, phew.

Sounds good to me.

To be honest I think it all sounds very good - good luck and keep us posted with your new addition to the family

Huge thanks to everyone who replied both on here and on the private message thing. It made me able to reach my decision much more confidently. xxxxx