One of my family ( Inlaws) recently took on a Laso I believe it is around 2 years old ..history unknown

She is a lovely wee thing except she growls at people alot and if you move her or lift her when she is not wanting moved she almost goes for you, she doesn't bite but lunges at you and snarls. She barks constantly.

I was at their house tonight and she was up on my knee licking and fine but apparently today she had bit their other dog snarled at the owner a good few times.

The asked me over to discuss it and get my opinion. Well I don't have a clue. The are thinking about either getting her PTS or rehoming , I nearly burst into tears as she was fine with me but I am not taking her.

Any opinions.. I said I would ask and I am also going to contact the Laso club to see if anyone has experience with problem lasos and what is the best thing to do. I would rather see her going to someone who could help than PTS. The vet apparently said they are grumpy wee things anyway and to have her PTS...

Pam :-(

NO Pam do not let them kill her.
Please get in touch with Laso Apso rescue as well as any other rescue kennels and ask them to collect the dog ASP.
That place is not the home for that dog.

Doogdog,
I'm almost scared to ask this but how on earth can you decide "that place is not the home for that dog"?. That sounds terribly judgemental to me and ill founded. Are you a specialist on Lhasa Apsos?
They are clearly concerned about the dog when they are asking for help. That does not sound like a bad home.
Dot

I know what I'd do but I'm not saying it publicly- it's a bit of a *no-go* area on here lately:o I hope you get some good advice and manage to get it sorted:) I'm don't think re-homing or pts is the answer though- I would have thought training is what's needed:) Learning what's acceptable and what isn't:) Please remember though this just my tuppence worth and it's probably not worth that much;) Hope some of the more experienced people give you better advice in the morning:)

Stacey x x x

Hi all,

My in laws love her to bits but they are terrifed of her now..they are scared to put their hands down to her..they wait until she waggs her tail and approches them.

The couple are in their 50 s and have had dogs all their life and are really good people and love dogs. They have never ever had a problem with any dogs and have never rehomed or PTS any animal , infact they still have pet rabbits etc for their grand children. They are scared that the dog bites a child for the dogs sake and childrens sake.

When they took her on I did ask them if they knew what they were doing as the previous owners told a few lies so I think the problem was there also.

They would not rush out and PTS they just want to do what is best and if they could help her then they would. They are scared themselves just now and that is why they called me to ask what to do.

They have tried to love her but give gentle firmness etc but nothing is working.

I know these people well and they are not daft at all with regards animals. They would not have ever thought about the PTS comment but it was the vet that mentioned it to them.

I wil call around tomorrow and I have called them and said if it gets to bad for them then I will take here till I cna get some help..

My hubby is please at me..I hope it doesn't come to that as they do love her. They were crying tonight when I was there.

Pam

Pam,
I definitely would suggest getting in touch with Lhasa rescue. They do have a website. Try just searching under Lhasa apso rescue on Google. I would contact them first since they would have specialist knowledge of Lhasas. I don't know if they're a grumpy breed or not but I do think they bark a lot (Aboistop collar methinks ;) ;))
Maybe it's a confidence thing. She obviously took to you so maybe she senses you're a real dog lover and she maybe felt you were more relaxed.
I'm certainly not meaning that your inlaws aren't dog lovers but their maybe more tense because of the way she's been behaving.
It could just be that she's not used to another dog, maybe she was the boss previously and is still trying to "lead" , maybe your inlaws remind her of her previous owners and maybe she'd been mistreated by them. There could be any number of reasons.
The important thing is that help has been asked for and I'm sure if Lhasa rescue are as helpful as TT rescue, they'll be able to advise. You CAN teach old dogs new tricks and since she's only about 2 I'm sure she could be sorted out with the proper guidance.
Keep us posted.
Dot

Yes my post was intended to be judgemental on such a 'home'.
I hope the dog is a rescue ASP, a place of comparitive safety by the sound of it.

I can't see any problem with this home, it sounds like they have only had the dog a short time, eveything may well resolve itself as the dog settles. If it doesn't they are asking advice, what's the problem? I'm
Anne

Anne , Kash , mari, I will show my IQ and ignore the above post.

They have had the dog for 2 months now but she seems worse than better they say. They are really upset at this and had hoped they could help the wee thing.

She came to them in the middle of a phantom pregnacy and have done a lot woth her. She was so skinny and thay have her all nicely groomed now and fattened up. They have spent alot of time, love and money on her so it is not them I know this 100%.

They are both in the home and the husband works from home as a draftsman so the dogs are not left at all.

I will see what I come up with.

My next door neighbour has one and have been in to askher about her. They say theirs is a grumpy thing also and regularly snaps and their teenage daughter, I was shocked at this also. I know nothing about the breed but will do some homework in the next 24 hours.

For what is is worth some dogs do have problems that cannot be sorted just like some humans do so will try and get someone in the know to assess her first before and decisions are made.

Pam

PS forgot to add she has been to the vet 100s of times and she is more healthy than I suspect she has ever been. When If first saw her 2 months ago I thought she had just had pups but the vet said it was a phanton she was having and was treated for this. I did notice tonight when I went over her myself that her teat/ breasts whatever we call them still looked a bit swollen so they are going to ask the vet about this again.

I know they are frantic about it and will only do what is best for the dog.

Pam

Hi again Pam.
phantom pregnanies do make the teats sore and painful .
So in a grumpy breed it would make them worse than before.
I am so sorry for your inlaws but fair play to them for trying so hard to make it work and seemingly at great expense
Mari

Hi Mari,

She has been like this for the whole 2 months and they had hoped with love and attention she would become secure in herself and calm down. They are or try to be firm with her but not overly as they wanted to get her felling she was loved. They are great people and I would trust them 100% with my dogs.

I think the thing that was finally worrying them was it bounced up on my sister in laws bed one day during the week and she got a clap and a good moring kiss etc but when my sister in law tried to get out the bed the dog flipped and started growling and lunging at her my sister in law was terrifed. She sadi in 40 years of owner labs, Rotties, terriers she has never ever been so scared. Later in the day she was putting close away in her bedroom closet and the dog was at her feet and fine , my sister in laws grand daughter open the door and came in and the dog went for her luckily her Gramps lifted the child out the way but they got an awful fright. The dog calmed down and was fine in 5 mins. They are so confused with it. I thinkt hat maybe why the vet thinks it is strange.

The vet is one of the well know vets in out district and has been our family vet for 20 years he is really good. He didn't think it was to do with the phantom but I will ask them to speak to him again also.

Pam

Pam,
I thought they may have been a bit like the Tibetan Terrier since I had read somewhere that they were possibly originally derived from a TT and the Tibetan Spaniel but I only know one Lhasa and it's owner also has a TT. She says the Lhasa's totally different and not comical like the TT so maybe they are a naturally grumpy breed :) :)
I hope you manage to get someone with Lhasa experience because I felt TT rescue gave me specific knowledge that was useful when I rescued Toby.
Good luck
Dot

And how can I just ask can you be *judgemental*? Do you know the home? Have you been? Why do you seem hell bent on causing arguments and being so rude to others? If you don't mind this is Pam's in-laws you're slating:o Show more respect.

Doogdog,
You've got me intrigued. I have noticed you never answer questions about your own personal experience of dogs.
What dogs do you have? Do you breed them? Do you do obedience/agility/showing?
I would appreciate it if you could enlighten me as it may help me understand how you can always be so judgemental when given so little information.
Thanks,
Dot

Doodog.
This is not enjoyable and certainly not educational to anyone .
Why not just drop the attitude and calm down .
Advice is requested not abuse
You know small dog bites hurt and damage as well .
The family will try and work something out thats obvious. but
If the dog has rage then I am afraid there is not an alternative

have you always been so right!!!!! youre so judgemental . if only we could all be so dam perfect doodog

Like the saying goes Dizzy- if we were all meant to be perfect God wouldn't have gave us the 'delete' key;)

Stacey x x x

Hi Pam there may be some sore spots and it is hurting . Has the vet looked for injury.
She may also have rage syndrome. I think before she is rehomed it may be best to rule out injury or illness , It is not always the best thing to pass on to others a dog with problems.
I think rescue may be the best plan , untill they assess her .
Sorrry I cant be any better help
Mari

Cava14Una, I'm not sure if you read the post properly, do you know what PTS means?
It means kill it!
This is a two year old dog, I can understand someone wanting to rehome it if it is to much of a problem for that particular family and not suitable for them, I have no problem with that but how they can even contemplate killing it because it is incompatible with their particular family situation is horrendous! almost unbelievable.
Dogs are not dispensible animals that you just kill because your incomapable with them, obviously this family does not think that way.

Right you DOOGDOG I will reply this time.....as you are having problems reading english....

They do not want to PTS anything. The vet was the one who mentioned this may have to be done. They are looking into every option.

>>>it is incompatible with their particular family situation is horrendous<<<< Where does my post say this....

SHUT UP AND GO AWAY and when you learn some manners please come back..

Manners can be found in goodle search engine

Pam

I am sorry to all that have to read my reply but comments like this are of no help to nobody and someone has to tell these people to go get help themselves.

Pam

What you said was 'they are thinking of getting her PTS, thats what you wrote and thats what I responded to.
The Laso Apso rescue is the dogs speciialist body and getting a dog killed as the result of ONE vets opinion, which you DID NOT STATE, is a cruel and inhumane option.
Is the vet some kind of trainer? has he conclusivley put in writing there is an irreversible medical problem?
Either way you first wrote 'they are contemplating haveing her killed off' the vet has only just emerged.

I hope I am getting an apology after that one go and look at my first post again and read the last line.

Please do not respnd to me again infact you rude rude person.

Pam

Pam, found this on a Lhasa Apso site:

The Lhasa Apso temperament is unique. His rather independent and stubborn nature requires patient understanding, and he resists harsh or strict discipline. He is rather calm and deliberate, although chary (suspicious) of strangers, a direct reflection of his long-standing heritage of seclusion in Tibet.
The Lhasa Apso is a big dog personality in a small package. They view themselves as big and important. It is said "when a Lhasa looks in the mirror he sees a lion." Maybe this is where they get the name 'Little Lion Dog.' Based on their strong willed personality, inappropriate behavior in a puppy should be corrected so it may reduce the likelihood of becoming a problem as an adult.

Since your in-laws don't know anything about this dog's background, the last sentence sounds as if it might be a matter of (non)training as a pup, and hopefully a Lhasa Club/experienced breeder can tell you how to approach it. Hate to say this, but the only dog I had that took vicious turns (an IW) was PTS. But she had a brain tumour (definte diagnosis only at autopsy), and she wasn't reacting to some situation she didn't like - most of the time she was fine, then for no reason at all she'd attack.

Thanks Sharon,

I thought that myself , My neighbour called someone form her club and is going to get her to come and see the dog tomorrow and see what they think. They have 20 years Laso experience.

Pam

Please tell me I am not the only one who is scratching her head at a certain poster..my husband has just came and read the thread and is away laughing so at least he is humoured.

I am just concerned for the owners and dog.

Pam

Pam,
No you're not alone. Not everyone seems to have mastered the English language. At least someone appears to interpret things differently, answer questions that aren't asked and ignore those that are.
The description above of the Lhasa is very like that of the TT so I'm glad you're getting someone with Lhasa experience.
Good luck
Dot

Not read to the bottom of this thread but would have thought that as this dog has already been re-homed once, the chances are that the reason for it's re-homing were probable the same reasons that are causing trouble now. I'm sure that this may well be able to be tackled by training but should people risk being bitten whilst this goes on I'm not sure they should, when there are hundreds of good tempered homeless dogs out their waiting for a good home. Sad I know but unless an experianced dog person comes forward to help this dog then perhaps your inlaws should call it a day and look for a dog with a more suitable temperment. Hope the breed club can come up with a suitable home for it, as I don't think it fair to expect your inlaws to continue in fear. Jackie

Great Pam! Hope it works out for your in-laws and the wee dog.

its not funny but i cant help it-my sister had 3-4 rotts living indoors, she also has a lhasa ---the lhasa WAS!!!!! horrific, it would snack, gaurd food, run off with things and snarl over them -it threw a tantrum snacking anything it could reach while flying through the air the first time it got a collar and lead put on----its so sure of itself, when i go over and im carrying on with the male rott who growls when hes playing, the lhasa gets between my legs and trys to box him off with her paws-------shes now however well and truly cured. no attitude problem, no growling, snacking etc-------how??? she was treat the same as the rotts, stepped out of line and got a dam good shake , it really didnt take it long after a few episodes, i think youve got to think past the fluffy cute stage-its a dog, is a dog!!! let it know its not acceptable---of course as its older it might be set in its ways, it might also be unfortunate and have a genuine bad temperament, so if firm correction isnt working and the dogs just downright nasty, then is say pts is a strong possibilty , its not fair to keep rehoming a dog with temperament problems, if thats what it comes down to, i feel so sorry for the folk that are trying to give it a chance .
ive just reread the bit about it being ok then going into one-then attacking the grandaughter, i have to say that with my sisters one it was always clear why shed done it, not that it made it any better, but you know what i mean----im really sorry but this dog sounds mentaly unstable, which if that is the case would be far better pts sleep, it wont do the little dog or anyone else willing to try any favours if its not right in the head :(

Thanks Dizzy,

I know my first post didn't explain everything but I know MOST of you know me well enough to know I would not post and not have put some inteligent thoughts behind it and just wildly post without asking all the questions myself.

They said that they would only let her go to a new home if they could not get help themselves and that the home would 100% need to be experience with problems and they wouls want 100% contact with the people.

They haveeven called a behaviourlist who is going to call them back and apparently does some kind of paid home visits but that doesn't stop them worrying like mad about the best situation.

Thanks to all who have taken the time on this.

PS MY neighbour said she would not have another one..LOL so don't know what that means

Pam

Well I am of to bed so goodnight everyone.
Pam after reading more I think the dog has a brain problem
.To many changes in temperament for my liking .
I think also the vet probably suspects the same
Mari

night all, I too need to get to bed as up in 5 hours to walk my pair.

I have never been faced with this neither so it is really hard.

Speak to most tomorrow..

Pam

Hi Pamela,
Just a quick note before I must get ready for work. Read this thread --- I have to say that certain comments made did not surprise me :rolleyes:

Llasas can have trouble with their eyesight. If the dog has had problems in another house, sudden movement can set off a reaction. That sounds almost what happened with the bed and door incidents.

They also can have back troubles with discs. If her teats are swollen, plus her back is aching, the pain could just be enough to offset any "happy" feelings in life.
They can be very fussy antagonistic critters and I have no idea why except personalities that were bred into them
Good luck and don't loose faith. Hopefully things will get sorted out soon ;)
toodles

BTW, rehoming a dog in the best scenario takes a bit of patience and attention to details. I hope that your in-laws realize that the dog's behavior is not their fault. The problems were there before they took her in. It will take time and understanding to work them out.
In the end, since there are children involved, it could be best for all for this dog to be rehomed where there wouldn't be regular contact with children. It is nothing to feel guilty about. I regard dog ownership similar to a marriage. If there are personality and extreme living conflicts, it is not a terrible evil to admit that the situation is too much for an individual to deal with. What is important is what is best for all. If the dog can live in peace ---and your in-laws know she's happy.... what is so bad about the end results???? :)

Pam

I just wanted to add my support to you on this one. It is an awful position to be in. Doogdog's postings I have noticed are all of a simlar vein on whatever thread s/he posts on.Always judgemental and using emotive language designed to cause upset. S/he is not worth the time of day which could be a shame - they might actually have something worthwhile to pass on sometime and no-one will take any notice.

There comes a time with some dogs that the only way to ensure the safety of the people and other animals around it and to ensure the dog does not suffer a miserable existence that they are pts. This is not a decision taken lightly by people such as yourself and your in-laws. You do not deserve the things DD has said, it is a hard enough time as it is.

It does sound as if this wee thing has severe problems. I do hope that the person coming to see the dog today can help but offer my support whichever way it goes.

good luck

Pam n the boys

I do agree Pam but have posted further up the board. There are times that the only decision to avoid people being hurt and a dog passed from home to home is to bite the bullet and consider PTS. Of course, take advice, but I feel when you are rehoming you should not have to make this decision on your own the rehoming socity should take some responsibility and help you make your decision. Jackie

Jackie, its a dreadful position to be in. I mentioned Lagan the wolfie in this thread. Although we were running from pillar to post trying to find a treatable physical or behavioural answer to her sudden, unpredictable, rare fits of aggression, she became - in our judgement - too dangerous, and was PTS before any definitive diagnosis was made. It was a horrible time and a horrible decision and I really do feel for Pam and her in-laws. Thank goodness the llaso's size allows a little more time and room for manouever.

Hi Pam

I think that she's confused about her boundaries. She's got a big personality and sense of importance but is also fearful and that is showing in aggression. Your inlaws sound well meaning but misguided. I don't believe the right approach is to smother with love and affection. This is not an easy thing to do because instinct is to try to wrong the rights by affection. The opposite of abuse is not to abuse - not to smother with love. That may come later when you are comfortable with each other and have developed a strong bond if you are that way inclined :)
There are a million if, buts and maybe's when you are dealing with a dog of unknown history - you just don't know is the bottom line. Maybe she has been mistreated but maybe also she has just been raised to have no respect and will take the p*** because she has got away with it for so long it is now normal behaviour to her - but what makes the difference now is how you move forward. Most dogs can get over it.
Start how you mean to go on or maybe a bit firmer. Give her somewhere to sleep downstairs which is hers. If she is likely to jump on a bed and then hold the slumbering hostage with bared teeth do not let her upstairs.
I would get dog gates and put them across doorways so that you can restrict her access. Then, on your terms you can let her in to interact with the family.
If she has her own area to sleep then the probability of having to move or lift her is greatly reduced as this seems to be a major area of confrontation. Don't let her up on the furniture. This doesn't have to be permanent, some people want pets on their sofas - just until she knows the rules and becomes comfortable with them. Then you can gradually relax them.
Don't approach her for a cuddle and a stroke - as that seems to be another flash point for a growl. Call her to you and give her a brief cuddle, stroke or groom. Don't prolong it and then let her go off. You can always do it again a few minutes later. If she comes to you wagging her tail and wanting a fuss then ignore her until she goes away and then call her to you and give her a fuss. That way she will be a bit confused at first and hopefully it will soon click that you have to want to fuss her and not let her call all the shots and manipulate her lifestyle. She should eventually realises that she relies on your inlaws and not the other way round.
Everyone is really different when it comes to dealing with dogs and how they are raised. Some people are easy to manipulate and others aren't. It's a bit like our old school days - we all knew which teachers we could take the p*** out of and mess about in class and which teachers it didn't even cross our minds to try!
I don't worry too much about what vets say. I'm sure half the time they just cover their own butts in queries like aggressive behaviour anyway. It doesn't necessarily mean that they want the dog euthanised - they just don't want any comeback.
It's hard to suggest things without seeing the dog and the setup.
But good luck anyway :)
Lara

HI all,

I have just spoken myself with the woman that runs Lhaso ( Spelling right now LOL) rescue and she herself is going to go visit them.She is an expert in their behavour. She thinks it may have been badly trained as they are puppies till 4 ish.

I spoke with my inlaws today and read everyones posts to her she is naturally very tearful about this as she does love the wee thing already and I know shw would love to keep her.

We will have to see what the Rescue people think. They have offered some tips till they get there such as we all would expect.

Not on furniture, ignoring any behavour, no eye contact, not on beds, in a crate etc, going through the door second.

She thanks everyone for replies. I will keep you posted.

Pam

I'll keep my fingers crossed for them Pam - I hope it works out well and they're able to keep the Lhaso. They sound as if they are able to offer a lovely home to her.

Fiona
x x x

Pam,
Glad to hear someone's coming out. I'm sure it'll be a bit of a relief for your in-laws to realise they're not going round the bend :D :D
I hope it works out. I was even getting tempted to offer to take her :) :)
It's always difficult when you rescue a dog if you don't have the full background. Toby, my TT, seemed to have been badly mistreated and so nervous/fearful of people but with the right guidance, patience etc. he's now totally normal (and just proved it on another thread :D :D)
He was about 2 when I got him. That's how I feel the Lhasa may be young enough to recover if they can get to the bottom of it.
Fingers crossed that it can be sorted.
Dot

Hi Pam, sorry to see your in-laws are having problems with their dog, I was going to suggest that you contacted S.K.C. and ask about Llasa Rescue, just for advice, but, I see you have managed to contact someone at rescue, I really hope this can be sorted and the dog Is NOT taken into rescue, as it sounds as if your inlaws have an excellent home for this dog, once, of course they find out how to re-train it, I think this is where the problems lies, it sounds as if this dog has got away with murder !!! in its last home, what I mean by this is, the dog has ruled them and not the other way round, I thought our breed Westies, was hard to rear, but the llaso sounds worse, I will keep my fingers crossed that everything turns out o.k. in the end, for them and the dog, once the dog learns to trust them, and they learn how to handle this breed. Keep us posted Pam it will be interesting to find out the outcome, have they thought about going to training classes, find out where the nearest apdt trainers are, as they are very good, I had to take Lucky there at one point where he "was going for some breeds of dogs" and I had to get him re-trained.

Thanks Irene,

I have been so lucky with mine but I guess if you are fairly firm to begin with.

They are not giving up on her and have book someone to come out to help them a bit..

So fingers crossed. I believe they are a very hard breed not sweetness and light at all..LOL

Not like our westie LOL ...

Will just have to wait and see, They would not put her down unless it was a very very last resort.

You must be having fun with your 3 just now... oh the joys of puppies

Pam

I've only just caught up with this thread and just wanted to say I know what these people are going through - we had a terrier with similar temperament problems and we did everything in our power to try to help him. He wasn't a rescue, we had him from the age of 8 weeks, he was never mistreated or had any bad experiences as a pup, he just seemed to have been born that way. We had a very difficult few years with him but just couldn't bring ourselves to call it a day. In the end the decision was taken from us. Barney suffered an extreme reaction to a booster vaccination and sadly died at the age of six.

Although we were devastated at the time, in hindsight it was probably for the best. Our nerves were stretched to the limit and the strain was making us ill.

Although I really hope that this little dog's problems can be sorted, I do hope the owners won't be too hard on themselves if, eventually, there is only one option left. They so obviously want to do their very best for the dog. Sadly, sometimes even our best efforts are not enough.

I hope it will help your in-laws, Pam, to know that other people do understand what they're going through.

Joyce

Thanks Very much Joyce,

I keep forwarding them the messages.

Pam

Just caught up with this now Pam, want to wish you and your inlaws and the little doggy the best of luck,

Give my regards to your inlaws, I always admire people who look for help in these situations

Theresa :)

Thanks T and nice of you to say so also..

Pam :-))

Glad you managed to rise above the *crap* at the beginning;) How's it going with the little rascal?:)

Stacey x x x

One of the people that came to see them gave them a list of things to try over a period of time, still waiting on the other person form Laso training but she has been in contact via phone.

They are going to keep trying for a period of time and see how it goes as they have had a lot of encouragement but the rescue did say that at amytime it was getting too much to call them.

Time will tell..

I read the top mails this morning and was laughing a bit as sometimes you wonder what is going through peoples heads when they post sometimes..I was even laughing at mine..

Never mind though..

Pam