Would someone look at Healthy Paws food please www.healthypaws.co.uk and give me their opinion on it. I haven't a clue to what should and should'nt be in dog food, Paisley is doing fine on it and i know thats all that matters, but was just curious as to what exactly i was feeding her!
Thanks in advance
Aly x

If your dog is doing fine on it then I really wouldn't worry too much.  :)  It's worse to change it then correct something thats already right.

Edit: Just looked at ingreedients and it does look like a good food.  I'm assuming you mean the rabbit and brown rice?

Ingredients : Brown Rice, Rabbit meat meal, Oats, Dried Carrot, Alfalfa, Seaweed, Chicken Oil, Fish Oil, Organic Sunflower Oil, Minerals, Vitamins, Dandelion herb, Cleaver herb, Dried Cranberry.

Typical Analysis : Protein 21%, Oil 7.5%, Fibre 2.5%, Ash 6%, Vitamin A 10,000iu/kg, Vitamin D3 1,500iu/kg, Vitamin E 75iu/kg, Copper 18mg/kg.

No crap at all in there that I can tell, altough I do not admit to knowing much about the finer details of dog nutrition. :)

Yes rabbit and brown rice. She was on Burns last week cause my local pet shop has been unable to get any Healthy paws, she was constantly hungry on it, even stealing food, (something she never does). Ordered more off Healthy Paws web site, (didn't think of doing that last week??)
Aly x

>(didn't think of doing that last week??)

We never think of doing things like that do we? :D  Must admit we now order our food at a champ show when we open a new bag or as soon after and get it deliverd to our door.  So much easier then going to a shop and hhuling 15kg bags of food around!!! :D

I would prefer to know the percentage of meat.

I would look for a food with specified meat meals, as the first, second and preferably third ingredients.With this food you are feeding your carnivore a diet of mainly rice,the protein level is just at the minimum level for a normal healthy dog,but the fat content is woefully low.

If you really want to stick with this food i would supplement with fish oil/vitE and extra meat.

KTee could you tell us what protein levels are necessary for a dog?

As far as I know dogs have no specific requirement for amounts of protein.  They do however have requirements for nitrogen and essential amino acids.  Could you point me in the direction of the literature which determines the percentages of protein required by a dogy?

Also surely fat content should be considered with regard to the activity level of the dog; as this is where the energy source is for dogs, sedentary pets require a grreat deal less than say sled dogs?

Tohme you're a raw feeder,surely you've stumbled across articles and advice on what is the optimum amount of protein/fat/minerals etc for dogs??
I am the worst person in the world to ask for links/literature,as i forget where i have read things,i dont bookmark stuff and when i do my favourites get wiped out(i have lost my bookmarked links 5 times in the past few months :rolleyes: ),i read loads of magazine articles and lots of nutrition books,i belong to many canine nutrition sites which is where i learn most of what i know.I have lots of info and bibs and bobs stored in my brain,but dont ask me where and when and exactly how it got there because there are so many different sources :D

The general concensus with protein that i seem to hear most often is the average sedentary dog does well on around 21% and upward protein,the average raw diet,considered the optimum canine diet, is between 30-40%,anything less than that 21% and the body feeds off the muscle for it's protein,as you can see i'm good at the why's but hopeless at explaining the how's :rolleyes: How often do you see roly poly raw fed,zero grains,dogs?Not very often.....

Personally i wouldnt feed my dogs a food with anything less than 20% fat,as you are aware dogs NEED fat,Low fat diets are not good for long term feeding unless some dire medical condition dictates otherwise,their coats,skin and just about every organ starts to suffer when there is not enough fat in their diet.

My dogs lead a normal active life and their diet is very high in protein and fat,i have fed all of my dogs this way from the very beginning.
One of the most popular modern holistic dry foods in the US at the moment is EVO which is 42% protein and 22% fat.This food was designed with the latest scientific knowledge on canine nutrition.http://www.evopet.com/products/default.asp?id=1488

Many dogs i know of have lost fat and gained muscle on this food.Foods where most of the protein comes from grains and therefore carbs>insert most commercial foods< will see dogs pack on the weight,whereas when the protein comes from a meat source it is converted into energy and muscle.It's not just about high protein and fat,but where it comes from is also of equal importance.

Sorry to be picky but I need a couple of things clarified please.

>Many dogs i know of have lost fat and gained muscle on this food.Foods where most of the protein comes from grains and therefore carbs

Correct me if I'm wrong but I didn't think muscle could be built up just by the type of food consumed, only by the type of exercise you take.  As far as I understood it (and I am ready to be corrected here), exercise builds muscle and burns fat but a lack of exercise can cause muscles to become flacid and calories not burnt off will turn to fat.  Therefore, if physique has changed due to a change of food it suggests that the dog has lost weight and consequently showing more muscle.

My point is I think that unless you are prepared to exercise your dog more than you do already changing the food will not make muscle.

>How often do you see roly poly raw fed,zero grains,dogs?Not very often.....

You must have very interesting chats when you meet new people because I can say with hand on heart that of all the doggie people I've met food has never been a topic of conversation

I don't know how it works but I have personally fund that there is a difference in muscle tone and amount of muscle depending on what is being fed.

I remember years ago running out of my usaul food and pickign up a small bag of one of the muesli type foods to tide me over (lasted about a month).  I found that my dogs muscle tone went completely, she became soft adn spongy.  When I got her back onto a better quality complete her muscle tone improved within a fortnight. 

Until then for me a dog food was a dog food, it is when I started comparing ingredients and the balance of nutrients.

I have a breed that gains weight easily, but have also found that you cannot get good results with low fat diets.  The coat suffers for it visibly.  I have found less of a higher fat and protein diet sems to give better results. 

"You must have very interesting chats when you meet new people because I can say with hand on heart that of all the doggie people I've met food has never been a topic of conversation "

Maybe it depends on breed, as often I get asked "what do you feed them on as their coats are so lovely"

Sort of makes sense as I am told those who in days gone by fed meat and biscuit meal always increased the biscuit to get weight on or in the winter for the kennel dogs.

Must admit a diet of low fat would be highly suitable for my girs who easily put on weight. :)

Burns is also a low fat food (hense why so many people find it makes their dogs underweight!)

can't see that the protein level is low at all.  This is surely an ideal maintenance for food for your everyday pet dog.  If the dog is working you may wish to consider higher but this does depend on each dog.  i.e. mine are fed on 24% protein during the agility season and 21% during the winter.

I also give her either a frozen block of meat (half in the morning, rest at night) or nature diet, (again just 1 packet split into two) mixed with her Healthy paws!
Thanks for all your advice
Aly x

>Burns is also a low fat food (hense why so many people find it makes their dogs underweight!)

And look at all the other problems dogs face when fed solely on Burns,besides poor body condition.Lethargy,poor skin and coat,poor muscle tone etc.and thats just the obvious outside conditions.

>Must admit a diet of low fat would be highly suitable for my girs who easily put on weight.

Dont only look at the the fat%,but also the carb levels,where the protein and fat is coming from,and the dogs exercise levels..

Look at royal canin for example.Alot of their foods are high in protein,but have a look where that protein is coming from,not from digestable meat sources,but from wheat gluten/maize,high protein but also highly undigestable :rolleyes:

What dog food has meat listed as a first ingredient?? sorry but like i said have'nt a clue!
Thanks Aly x

Here are the first 10 ingredients of orijen dog food

Fresh chicken meat, chicken meal (low ash), turkey meal, steamed russet potato, fresh-caught Northern Whitefish, chicken fat, fresh whole eggs, salmon meal, salmon and anchovy oils

It contains 70% meat compared to the usual 20-30%.

I followed the link (thank you for that :)) but unfortunately it contains high-purine ingredients and so is totally unsuitable for dalmatians. :(

jeangenie what do you feed your dogs? :)

Low-purine foods that they do well on and I can afford, and preferably made in this country. :)

What are 'low purine' foods? As in, whats purine? I'm a bit lost now.... Thanks!

Don't worry, it is complicated!

Purines are formed from the breakdown of DNA of protein sources - some sources contain high levels of purine and others are lower. Purine further breaks down to uric acid and then to urea, which is excreted in urine. All dals have a metabolic disorder which makes them unable to break down uric acid to urea which can lead to crystals and, if unlucky/untreated, can clump to form stones which can block the urethra. This is an emergency situation and the dog will die within 2 or 3 days if nothing is done.

Basically dalmatians should never eat protein sources which are high in purines but should be fed those at the other end of the scale. This list shows which foods are to be avoided totally; the sources which are moderately high can be given with caution and in limited amounts, and those lowest can be given more freely.

Unfortunately most commercial diets contain 'wrong' protein sources for this cussed breed!

Thanks JG. Very interesting, can see feeding yours can be complicated, but essential for their health. Informative too, for anyone who has these problems and didnt realise feeding can help.

>Low-purine foods that they do well on and I can afford, and preferably made in this country.

jeangenie what commercial food brand do you feed? :)

Edited: Never mind,i see you feed chappie.

>Edited: Never mind,i see you feed chappie.

Sometimes. Sometimes Burns Organic, sometimes Hills UD, sometimes JWB, sometimes home-prepared rice with egg, cheese and a little fish. :)

>Dont only look at the the fat%,but also the carb levels,where the protein and fat is coming from,and the dogs exercise levels..

I do and both chubby girls are on a light version of food and both look very good on it :) Although they can go up and down in weight quite easily, depending on how many treats they get. :)

Many foods start with meat:

Wafcol (the high quality versions, not the low quality versions) eukanuba, Pets at Home, JWB (I think), Pro plan...Just to name a couple off the top of my head :)

The only foods I've found available in this country with meat as the first ingredient are Timberwolf and Orijen,neither of which is stocked reliably  :rolleyes: JWB etc all have rice as the first ingredient.

This review site lists most foods with their ingredients..

http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/index.php/cat/1

Charlie, Pets at home, with exception to the light version, start with meat, the meat content being around 24% for dogs :)

Just looked at our eukanuba bags and light and senior are maize then meat, however special diet labrador starts with meat :)

Does it specify exactly what kind though? This is an interesting article about labeling and the difference between named meat sources..

http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=betterproducts

We have to clarify here the difference between meat as a first ingredient which it can be even in quite low concentrations if there are lots of ingredients, and also splitting of ingredients, and meat as the main ingredient.. 

You could have a food with 20% meat listed as first ingredient as it had 15% rice and then 15% corn, and 15% oats and then lots of others, making it primarily a grain based food.

Most commercial dry foods will have more grain than meat.  Even the good ones will only have about 35 to 40% animal sourced ingredients (meat, egg, fish etc) in the adult formula's.  Though to be fair the ingredients for meat meals are their dry weight, and fresh meat will have a lot of liquid.

I certainly look for a food to have around a third animal protein sourced ingredients at least.

Thought Arden grange has a good meat content and its first in the ingredients list. Easy to get direct from them in the UK

Yes it has a reasonably high meat content, but it still isn't the main ingredient, just the highest compared to the other ingredients.  It's the one I mainly feed.