Having read this forum fo sometime now can I please ask a question that is bugging me?  Firstly I would like to point out that i do show.

Some people post questions and 1 question that is always asked is "has the dog/bitch/parents been shown?'

Having thought about it - does this really matter?  I am an advocate of health testing and breeding for temperament so surely these are the most important factors!

Yes only the best stock should be bred from but why cant people get their dog assessed by a breed specialist OUTSIDE a show ring to find out if it is good enough and close to the breed standard, whats faults there are etc, IF they are are lacking the knowledge?

As some of us now showing is not all it is cracked up to be.  The majority is bent and set in stone in advance of the show - well it is in my breed anyway and from speaking to others its the same.  Some judges dont judge the dog but put the dog up because of who is on the end of the lead so at the end of the day are the best dogs really winning?  Sadly not.   

New people to the breed ntoice what goes on and dont want to wast their hard earned money showing when they are there to make up the numbers and I dont blame them.

My question is - what does bent judging do for the breeds, are they really taking the breed forward?  Not in my opinion. 

You do get fair judges but from my experience they are few and far between.

Before anyone says it is sour grapes for me, no it isnt.  My first ever show girl got a RCC, 1 BIS, 2 RBPIS, JW and ShCM and her daughter who is nearly 2 has a JW, BPIS is consistently placed ( never been binned) and got 2 1sts at Crufts this year - so I am not moaning about me - just people I have seen come and go over the years.

A wise man once told me that some dogs are winners and some are prducers. 

So going back to my original question if a dog has not been shown does it matter - it could go on to produce champions.

I do know of a dog that has never been shown, it was bred by people who dont show and one it its puppies ended up in a show home - it has gone on to be a consistent winner at open and CH show level.  The breeders of this dog still have NO interest in showing.

Food for thought.Fi
xxx

No dogs do not have to be shown to be bred from.  Very many people keep a bitch to breed from that is never shown or worked but has fab lines.

On the continent many breeds have breed surveys (as they do here for GSD) where there is no competition, the dog is either KK1 or KK11  recommended for breeding or suitable for breeding etc.  The dogs meet the breed standard, there are also other suitability for breeding tests for temperament and working ability etc.

Many of us have no interest in show qualifications but a great deal more impressed with working qualifications or prowess in the field of work in which we are interested.

Yep some dogs are show winners but aren't producers, this seems to be what is happening in my breed.  And some people sell their pups on the line that both parents are Crufts qualified, again in my breed that isn't a difficulty.      I started with a dog & bitch that were good representatives of their breeds, my girl was more workmanlike than pretty, my dog was very handsome and always attracted comments.  I didn't show him really as he had an anterior crossbite and my bitch did well under some, but not great under others - she won her SB No.   However mated together, they produced a Sh.Ch. bitch and a RCC winning bitch (Who I own), who in turn has produced a Sh.Ch.  and 3 RCC winners.

I'd be very interested to see the replies to this.  And I hope it doesn't turn into a 'show bashing' argument or people misinterpreting well bred non shown dogs -v- pet quality dogs.

Have you bred any pups with a bad mouth, having used such a dog.  It is not a fualt I woudl find acceptale as it is hard to breed out once bred in.

I consulted Mr Johnstone, canine dental specialist in Edinburgh, who assured me that the mouth was not a heerditary fault, never had been and wouldn't be.  And none of the pups had it or has it come through.

That is good,

Good for you for speaking out I only go to a few shows now and it does seem to be getting worse in the fixing of champions but as I keep hearing you just have to put up with it !!!!
Dog breeding as always been there and there are a few types of breeders there are thoses who breed a large amont of litters so there chance of getting a good one is better ,Then theres the breeders that only use champion dogs in the hope to get a good one,Then theres the breeder that only breeds a few litters but breeds to type so always keeping up there standard.
In Rough collies many years ago there was two brothers one was a champion and other not so good but it was the not so good one that perduced  sired more champions .

>I am an advocate of health testing and breeding for temperament so surely these are the most important factors!

That suggests that a dog purporting to be a labrador, but which resembles a whippet or a boxer, is fine as long as it's healthy and has a good temperament.

>why cant people get their dog assessed by a breed specialist OUTSIDE a show ring to find out if it is good enough and close to the breed standard, whats faults there are etc

Of course they can. :) But a dog needs to be independently assessed by several different people for a true picture to be formed, and the easiest way to do this is to enter shows under several different breed-specialist judges - ideally ones who have their own long-standing successful lines.

>You do get fair judges but from my experience they are few and far between

You're in the wrong breed.

You're in the wrong breed.

Surely breed shouldn't make a difference to the impartiality of the judging

No it shouldn't. But according to what people say, some breeds are obviously judged more honestly than others.

It's up to the people within each breed to make sure that judging is as honest as it can be, and to make an official complaint if they genuinely believe that cheating is going on. Of course, the people who've been successful in the breed are likely to be better than a newbie at selecting the most promising puppy at an early age, so it appears that they do a lot of winning because they've been around for a long time, not because they've got the overall better dogs ... ;)

Dogs before being considered for breeding need to be of correct temperament, Health (hence Health tests), and TYPE (hence being assessed objectively, so shows).

There are very few people except those who have shown and worked a breed for generations that could objectively assess the quality of the dog or bitch as regards correct type and conformation.

Even those very experienced after a while can loose their eye or become kennel blind.

Breeding should be about keeping the breed true to type, healthy and mentally sound.

Only one of these areas can be assessed simply by living with the dog, and then only if your honest with yourself and don't make excuses for nerves or bad temper.

I'ver heard this said over and over again Jakarta.  It's an interesting point to ponder.  Of course no dog has to be shown for it to contribute in a positive way to it's breed.  But one has to be so careful about differentiating between seasoned experienced show/working breeders and people with a, shall we say, dog of lesser quality ;)  The reason most people ask if the bitch (or dog) has been shown is that the majoirty of people coming on here asking about breeding questions are novices.  These people, due to their lack of experience and knowledge (not having a go - just stating a simple fact), see things in a totally different way than a seasoned dog person would.  Mention health tests, for example, and alot of them will reply that yes the dog has been seen by a vet who's said they're healthy enough to breed from.  This, of course, is not what 'health testing' means to a serious breeder.  Any dog can be assessed by several 'experts' in that breed and, if they think it has something to offer the breed, there's nothing wrong with that dog being bred from - shown or not.  But what one has to be careful of is that those 'experts' aren't the people that own one down the road - or the local groomer - or the vet - or the person who's second cousin twice removed once showed one.  By showing their dog a person will have had a number of independant assessments of their dog up against dogs of that breed. 

One more thing I feel I must address - yes there is an amount of facey judging that goes on but, IMO, it's nowhere near as bad as people make out ;)

Debs

My boy was bought from a non showing home, his dam had reasonable showing lines but mated to a good dog she produced my boy. 
In a numerically high breed and as a newbie, me and him, I think we have done extremely well, ShCM and stud book number, all gained within a year, which believe me isn't easy in my breed.  He was assesed at 6 weeks by someone with a lot of experience and the breeder was told to hold on to him for a "show home"
In someone else's hands............who knows, sadly that's the way it goes with my breed and especially the colour

So in answer to the question, not always :)

>In someone else's hands

I wonder how those "someone elses" get from being the newbie to being "some else" :)  Could it be sticking at it and learning in the long curve?

Absolutely, which we intend to do :)

I think it must be a little difficult for people who are new to showing to discern whether the ring side gossip regarding "facey" judging is, in fact, just bitching and the regular, well known, winners are doing so, yes,  because they have been around for a long time but that length of time is responsible for the experience they have gained in their breeding and showing skills and their dogs win because they consistantly produce what is required to win.  I know that is the case in my breed anyway. 
As you demonstrate, newcomers can be successful with a good dog straight away but there is no substitute for continuing to show and learn from what you see and the judging of your continuing efforts in order to become one of those that can breed quality consistantly.
You could just seek the opinion of a couple of doyens of the breed but that is not giving you anything like the breadth of opinion that you should be looking for if you are serious about developing a line.

I totally agree, I have a friend who at every show we go to, where she doesn't do well says how facey the judging is, sometimes yes it can be, but the majority of the time her dog just isn't the judges type, or there were, shock horror, better dogs there

I am up against it in my breed with not a common colour shall we say, and a lot of people so I've been told think there are only a few breeders who can breed quality in this colour.  My boy has proved them wrong many a time :)  But will struggle under certain judges, and certainly has done in the past

I was once told the success to breeding is to be able to see your own dogs faults, and to be honest I have gone the other way and am very critical but prefer it this way to thinking he's perfect. 

The problem I have now is being able to show a dog as good as, or if not better, in a way I've been spoilt, I am showing one of his offspring at the moment who qualified for Crufts at his first CH show, but we shall see

I do not show but have for quite a while been interested in it. I have for a long time researched the kennel that appeals to me and I have dates to visit shows to see how it works and look at the lines I have researched. Having read this thread I feel disillusioned, I did visit a show and I was not made to feel welcome but I put that down to the fact that I was new and hoped that once I had spoken to people and registered an interest I would find someone to take me under their wing. Some comments paint a black picture about showing, and it has made me question whether it is something that I want to do.
jane

Jane it is like all things we tend to remember bad experiences and take the good as read.

I would always like to think that I would always welcome any new person with open arms.  Often at shows though you are running around busy with your dogs, get chatting to Friends you haven't seen for a while, even miss speaking to others,a nd often a new face just isn't noticed.

the vast majority of us enjoy our showing with the odd winge at some thing or other not going well, such is life in all spheres.

Often it is easier to start at Ringcraft where you will get to know people and then go to an all breed show where they will also e, that way you know someone who then introduces you to others.

In the breed you usually start under your breeders wing or that of the person who sired your dog, and then get to know others a bit at a time.  That is the other good reason from buying from someone already showing if that is what you intend to do as they can show you the ropes.

>New people to the breed ntoice what goes on and dont want to wast their hard earned money showing when they are there to make up the numbers and I dont blame them.

I'd agree with this! My current dog is the only 1 (had 3 of the same breed) that we've shown, and I don't get to go to many shows as I don't drive so rely solely on lifts. We do go to several local companion shows each year and always do well - never been 1st (got swapped at the last split second once!) but had lots of seconds and below, out of classes of sometimes up to 25 dogs. At open shows we often don't do well at all, even though the owner of my dog's sire tells me my dog is spot on, same as we're told at ringcraft. We are unknown to judges and the showing scene as a whole and you can often see who the judges winner is before they've even looked at your dog (looking down the line and skipping straight past you is what gives the game away :rolleyes:). I've also found the whole atmosphere very bitchy and whispers behind backs type of thing. I've noticed other breed rings seem far less serious so it may well be a breed thing, I'm not sure. Have only been to companion shows this year and have no plans to go to anything "higher up!" Love the atmosphere at companion shows and find everyone very friendly, whereas open shows I've found very cliquey and don't really enjoy them at all (think billy no mates vs big gang of people who go to every show in the country :rolleyes:)

You need a competitive spirit! Don't get downhearted, get in there with the rest, watch at shows for the way experienced handlers perform, how they handle the dogs to get the best out of them, ask quetions of handlers if they look as if they have time.
If you look as if you are not going to do well, if you think you might as well stayed home, your face will say it, the way you handle your dog will say it, and that will show in the dogs performance. Be confident, go in there and show your dog. Join your breed club, that may get you some advice, also do as someone has said, get your dog from someone who shows, or the stud dog owner. Make use of them, they will want you to do well for many reasons, none less than it is good for them to have their puppies do well. :)

There is a wealth of knowledge out there, it may seem clicky but maybe its just concentration, a touch of stress, at a show, so give 'them' a chance too. :) Not to say there are no backhanders, favours made, who knows, thats life I guess. :rolleyes:

There is another thing too. Your dog may, outside the ring, be  better than the dog that pips you handled by 'the face'. What you have to remember is, 'the face' may well have many years experience, and could win a CC with a sack of spuds. They know how to get the best out of the dog on the end of the lead.

Dont be disheartened, you still have the love of the dog you own, where ever you come in the line. Eventually, if the dog is good enough, and as your showing style and confidence grow, so will the awards you win.

I understand all these negative posts from people new to showing and remember very well feeling exactly the same myself 25 years ago.  I honestly and sincerely thought that the bitch I was showing was Champion material and also thought that the judging was facey and only the BIG people won.  But now when I look at the picture of this bitch that I put in the Breed Year Book I laugh out loud!  Of course I loved her - she was mine.  Other exhibitors that I asked told me that she was nice too because they didn't want to hurt my feelings when I obviously loved her so much!  They must have also been whispering to each other, wondering how to tell me............  I thought that I knew a good dog but I truly didn't have a clue.  It took me a few years to get my eye in a decide what lines I really liked.

25 years later, with quality girls and a few nice wins under my belt, I can still remember the early days and smile. :)  And sure, there are some days when obviously not the best dog wins, judges are human after all and you get some dishonest people in all walks of life (including legal and religious fields) but overall, dog shows are where the wealth of knowledge and experience is for those who want to learn.  And a good dog, even in novice hands, although may well not get to the top, will be constantly placed and noticed by sincere supporters of the breed. :)

There are many quality dogs and bitches in pet homes.  A good breeder will be producing whole litters of nice dogs and just be nit picking about the very best for the ring.  And there's no reason why these dogs shouldn't produce quality pups, but generally (and of course there are always the exceptions!) people who buy a pet and then decide to produce a litter with little knowledge are rarely going to produce a reasonable representative of their breed.  They haven't seen a good number of quality dogs at shows, possibly, like me, wouldn't know what a quality dog looked like, and are just relying on the knowledge of one stud dog owner (who may or may not show themselves!) to choose the best dog that they have available.

I am always happy to help anyone who is interested in learning about my breed.  I'll spend time with them at home and at shows.  But if I get an enquiry for a bitch "and I'd like a litter later on" without any interest in learning about the breed, then they don't even get on my waiting list. :)

I am so impressed by the quality of the content of this posting. I could have written it myself as the sentiments are mine too.

I would just add that the judges that give less than honest evaluations seem to get fewer and fewer entries and will eventually, one would hope, end up not being asked to judge.

Personally I would really hate to have my dog put up unless it was genuine.  How could I look at that card or rosette and feel anything but shame.  I have occasionally been "thrown out" when one of my dogs has decided to have an off day and not "show" and have been pleased to accept this because of the obvious honesty in the judging. (She is a superb specimen).

Go to the shows, make notes of what wins and under which judge and if you don't like the judging - vote with your feet. Make notes. Only show under the judges that you have confidence in.   Good luck.

I have been happy with a lesser place from a judge whose opinion I value and have won under judges whose judgements I felt were really odd.  The win just didn't please as it made me wonder had my bitch been put up on reputation (having had a good run of publicised wins), or if some of the other winners were not the best, was mine just as poor :D

Exactly. You are so right Brainless. You'll know who to veto next time. Shame we have to, as the day out is such a buzz, but it's not worth the fretting is it?
Good luck next time. How lovely when we win and feel that our dogs earned it!!!!
P.S What is a Companion show???  I only go to Championship shows and Open and don't know what a Companion show is.

A companion show is the 'new' (several years old now) name for exemption shows: a few pedigree classes and loads of fun classes for all dogs, pedigrees, crosses and mongrels alike.

LOL Barbara, we all know that feeling ... "well, if I believe what they say about MY dog, does that mean I have to believe what they say about xxx's dog?!".

M.

To be honest I would never rely on an opinion on my dog from a Companion show, except for the rare occasion a really good judge does one.

These events should really be treated as a bit of fun and a chance to train yourself and your dog.

Even at Open show level the vast majority of the judges are still at the journeyman apprentice level.

What most of us mean by showing is showing at championship level and holding your own against the competition.  You don't have to win, a good third is worth far more than a poor first.  In some Strong breeds just being shortlisted is pretty good going, and that is why the winners have to have that bit extra.

I have two champion bitches.  In some ways the younger is the better bitch technically, but she hasn't the outstanding movement or that extra showmanship of her mother and will never do well as often as her mother did.

>You need a competitive spirit!

Well I'm not particularly competitive, so maybe that is the problem :P I originally started going to ringcraft as it was recommended to me by the lady who ran our training class as she said it was good for socialisation and training and to get them used to being handled and in close contact with other dogs etc (I hadn't really considered showing before this although he was "show quality"). By chance I met the owner of my dog's sire (who won best of breed at crufts) and also his owner's dad (who got the reserve with their bitch). My dog's dam wasn't shown as she didn't take to it. Our first open show was awful so we rightfully got nowhere, and a few times he's done more than the odd hop skip and jump :P But some shows he's been great, which is why I just don't understand it - although at one show the owner of the bitch above (the one who got the reserve) told me that the particular judge on that day doesn't like the more European lines as they are a bit more stocky and that she always picks the more slender ones (which she did!).

Not too fussed really Would be interesting to send my dog in with a 'face' and see what happened though!

Of course I have the best dog at the end of the day (they are all in denial obviously) :D

thanks for all of your comments - interesting to read peoples views.:-)

Not too fussed really  Would be interesting to send my dog in with a 'face' and see what happened though!

The problem with that statement is a 'face' can probably show a dog to perfection..

The good test to see if your dog is any good is to ask someone else to handle it :D :D :D if their face drains of all blood you know your dog aint all that

Or that it's so bloomin OTT that they couldn't do anything with 'it' either :D
So that it can't just be the awful owner/handler that can't handle :D

Boxacrazy :D :D :D

dont forget that to most of us showing is a hobby (expensive mind you)  I go to most champ and open shows a few hours away unless I know the judge wont like my boys.  I go to have a good day out with my dogs, handling them to the best of my ability.  I'd never dream of sending my dogs in with a "face"  - if they're going to win, then they'll win with me on the end of the lead!

its all part of the fun.

Jill

I'd agree, though I do handle my friends dog who I bred as we found eh was more relaxed with me in the ring.  she had done obedience with him and eh would stand in the Ring intently looking for instruction rather than showing off and looking on his toes, so I started showing him once he was in Limit.  Now either of us can take him in and he treats breed showing as a bit of fun.

I am seriously thinking of letting her handle my younger champion bitch, as with me it's just Mum, and she can't be bothered, but with someone new like her Aunty Bryony on the lead she is more animated.

Also you get a very different perspective seeing you dog in with the opposition from ringside :D

Must admit in our breed it is often all hands to the decks if someone has won more than one class you need a handler for the challenge.  The first time this happened I was totally floored as to whgat to do never expecting to win with two dogs.

sorry to open old wounds as it were...

I have packed in showing :-) ..... just wondering how the showing fraterinity would view me breeding????  I am planning on breeding  a health tested bitch,. stud book winner, BPIS winner, JW at 12 months TWO 1sts at Crufts 2007 plus many more wins......
basically since i stopped showing I have felt much more relaxed, I appreciate dogs more no matter what the breed, I go to companion/fun/rescue dog shows and have a fab time knowing the money I spend goes to the rescue centre.....  no bitchiness, no backstabbing.... and no matter what you say this does happen in the breed (well dobes anyway)...also bent judging - how can a so called expert place a bitch that is so weak in pastern and one that you could drive a bus through its back legs??? its happens and its wrong..... ive gone b2b and enjoy my dogs.... those who win and those who dont are just as highlly thought of.... also I am so proud I dont have to promote my dogs by whatthey have "apparently won in the show ring" would rather breed happy healtghy content wupples...

At the moment you are still current with the available dogs and bloodlines and have your eye in. 

How if you cut all ties with the show world will you in future be able to evaluate breeding stock, your own and other peoples in order to breed for the right reasons?  I don't see how anyone no matter how expereinced can continue to breed correctly in isolation.

I know many senior breeders who show rarely as they do not value the opinions of most judges, as they have forgotten more than some of these will ever know, but they still attend club shows and local championship shows so they can monitor the direction the breed is going, judge occasional and breed quality stock to start new exhibitors off with, so representing their kennel without the hassle of showing much themselves.

since i stopped showing I have felt much more relaxed, I appreciate dogs more no matter what the breed, I go to companion/fun/rescue dog shows and have a fab time knowing the money I spend goes to the rescue centre.....  no bitchiness, no backstabbing....

We stopped going to companion shows this summer because we found THAT was where all this happened -including the bent judging. We found at least by going to champ.shows we'd have a fair chance, after all the ridiculousness we'd seen at companion shows, with pedigrees winning best crossbreed, 3 month old puppies winning best puppy, sick and disabled dogs winning BIS, the oldest, most decrepit dog always winning best veteran, dogs that weren't even remotely show quality winning pedigree classes, youngest, cutest child always winning junior handling, judges not even knowing what the breeds were etc etc..... Not to mention all the nastiness about "Those people shouldn't be here, they show at real shows!" I was glad to be back at champshows. :D

Funny enough my experience has been similar.  The ones who give newcomers a bad taste of show people are often the ones who only show at that level acting like big fish in their puddle.

People that have quality dogs and go to support their Companion shows to give experience to pups never take it so seriously.

MarianneB I totally agree with you.  The disgusting comments I've had from people when I've taken my dogs to companionship shows has been awful!  They've been the most bitchiest that I've ever come across and usually have their facts totally wrong.

Two years ago I went to our local rescue centres companionship show and the comments that I had from the organisers, well I just couldn't repeat on here, I vowed there and then that I would never support them again and I haven't.  My mum was upset to have missed the show this year but I just couldn't go!

I've had people come up to me and say that I'm a professional handler, that my dogs are champions (don't even have breed classes never mind CC's) etc. and much worse.  Though when you get to a good one I do love them :d

I've been told that Izzy won't be welcome at our local companion show next year cos she's qualified for Crufts :rolleyes: ........we don't have JW's or ShCM's, RCC's or CC's...............this summer she won her AV Sporting Class at the companion show

A few years back, when Molly was a pup, I took her to a fun show.....the organisers told me as I was a "professional" handler (used to do Junior Handling 25 years ago :rolleyes: ( & I wasn't that good at it :D ) and only recently started going to Open and 2 Champ shows in the last year :rolleyes:) and shouldn't be taking my puppy in the classes :(

I would tell then to look at the rules.  Only CC and RCC winners are not allowed. (not sure about stud book numbers).

Must admit there are quite a lot of Fun dog shows being put on around here, so no KC License.  To be honest I find these next to useless because no actual judging takes place, the dogs are not handled or moved, the judge pats them on the head and goes eeeny meany miney mo.

I can't get to a ringcraft class so the only ring experience my pup has had are the four championship shows she has been to (struggle to get teeth shown), and two of these Fun events which turned out useless experience, apart from canine socialisation, which she has an abundance of any way.

Have no trouble getting her to show me teeth at home, but as soon as she has a stranger trying to look she gets her paws up and wriggles.

Hi Everyone

I am quite new to the show game however have owned dogs all my life and in the past have attended companion shows at the local rescue centre to support their cause.  We became more seriously involved in showing this year at open and then champ show level.  We did however start off at the companion shows to gain experience for us and our pup and still attend the odd local ones to support the charities - these are fun shows and we do not take them too seriously.  I have to say I have not had one bad experience at either companion, open or champ show levels.  Everyone we have met has been very welcoming and willing to help. 

We have been warned about facey judging, we will form our own opinions regarding this, up to now we feel every dog that has beaten us has deserved to (again this may change in the future).  We choose carefully which judges to go under, i.e. the judges who like our type or are breed specialists, we keep a low profile (not getting in the faces or sucking up to the top kennels) this has paid of by them approaching us with tips and advice.  This advice is always welcomed and taken on board even if we don't totally agree.  We have a fantastic relationship with our dog's breeder who has been in our breed for many years and gives tickets, she has helped us enormously and introduced us to other top breeders.  We even attend shows with her.

We have learnt that there is much more to showing up on the day with your dog.  A great deal of whether you are welcomed or not is your attitude!  You need to quietly be observed in your breed showing an interest and build relationships with other breeders and exhibitors.

We realise we have a lot to learn, our opinion doesn't matter to the top breeders we need to serve our apprenticeship and earn the right to voice our opinions.  The reason the top breeders win is often as they have the best dogs.  If we come across a judge who in our opinion is facey we will not slate then we will vote with our feet and not enter under them again.  Remember facey judging can work both ways and sometimes in your favour!

All this has paid of recently by us being able to add two pups to our team from a well respected top kennel, we also have quite a few of the top breeders interested in how these pups come on.

Back to the original topic.  Why would you want to breed a litter if not to produce a show quality dog for you to take in the ring and exhibit?

My advice to newbie's:-
Be nice to everyone (you don't know who they are, who they know etc.) 
Don't slate anyone or anyone's dogs - save it for the journey home
If people offer advice, opinions, help etc. - accept with a thank you and then make your own mind up
If you are beaten - congratulate the winners and accept it with grace - that is that judges opinion of the breed standard and he/she doesn't have to agree with you
If you win - congratulate the other placing and don't brag at ringside
Don't try to suck up to the big kennels - you are nobodies to them - if you do things right they will notice you for the right reasons
Attend as many shows as you can - with or without your dog.  Show an interest in your breed and be seen to be showing an interest.
Be resilient - it's tough, tiring, expensive, time consuming but most of all great fun!!!!
Remember it's a hobby and you're supposed to enjoy it - otherwise it would be work.

Regards

Vicky

An excellent post, Vicky. Great advice! :)

What a fabulous post Vikky!  If everyone had an attitude like yours there'd be no problems at all between exhibitors at shows :d

Debs

Wow great post.

Vicky, that is a fantastic post. Your attitude is exactly what is needed in the world of showing dogs. :)

Keep on doing what you're doing.

Dawn R.

>I would tell then to look at the rules.  Only CC and RCC winners are not allowed. (not sure about stud book numbers).

I'll look forward to turning up next year and telling them so in that case :D ..........we don't have a stud book No. either :)

not sure if anyone already said this but dont some breeds have different size for showing /breeding? chihuahuas for example, arent the tiny show bitches too small to breed from? i think the larger girls are used for breeding and so are not shown? this has always confused me about the breed

I have to agree with what others have said Vicky, that is a great post.

I haven't encountered any nastiness at shows, though I have seen a few of the things Marianne mentioned at companion shows!