Hi all
was just wondering in your opinions what is the best complete food. I feed Hills science plan large breed at the moment and am interested in what everyone else is feeding.

Probably the best recommendations would be from your breeder or at least those with experience of large dog breeding as the subject of feeding them, particularly during development, is a rather specialist subject.

All dogs and their digestions are different - what's best for one might make another ill.  So the 'best' food is one which suits your dog's palate, his digestion, and your purse! :D Also different breeds can have sensitivities to certain ingredients. A breed specialist would be the best person to ask.

JG said all that I would say! :D 

Each dog is different and each suit a different food.  We have 5 dogs on 3 different brands, one brand is two different types (so we only have 2 dogs eating the ame food!) purely to what suits the dog and what they look best on :)

If your dog is doing well on Hill's then I would keep them on it. :)

If they need a change do pop into PAH and look at the new nutrition centres as I must admit they contain alot of useful information, although naturally do tend to go a little far with mentioning their own brand!!! ;) You've been warned

The dry food with the best ingredients imo would have to be orijen,which i have been feeding for the past few weeks,and timberwolf organics,both available from zooplus,although they have been having major probs in getting TO in lately :(

Here are the ingredients to orijen ALS(all life stage),it is Grain/cereal Free,and the has appropriate calcium levels for large breed dogs,they also do a large breed puppy version.

Fresh chicken meat, chicken meal (low ash), turkey meal, steamed russet potato, fresh-caught Northern Whitefish, chicken fat, fresh whole eggs, salmon meal, salmon and anchovy oils, tapioca, chicken broth, sunflower oil, flaxseed, Atlantic kelp, steamed carrots, spinach, peas and tomatoes, sun-cured alfalfa, apple fiber, psyllium seed, rosemary extract, yeast extract (MOS), glucosamine HCl, cranberries, black currants, chondroitin sulfate, Chicory, burdock and marshmallow root (FOS), rosehips, stinging nettle, marigold flowers, L-carnitine, fennel seed, chamomile flowers, milk thistle, chickweed, summer savory, Iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Lactobacillus casei, Bifidobacterium (B. bifidus), Saccharomyces (S. boulardii), mixed tocopherols (source of vitamin E), choline chloride, vitamin A, vitamin D3, niacin, riboflavin, thiamine mononitrate, vitamin B12, folic acid, biotin, pyridoxine (source of vitamin B6).
ORIJEN Dog Food does not contain artificial preservatives.

Hills large breed

with Chicken (minimum Chicken 25 %; minimum Chicken and Turkey combined 33 %): Ground maize, chicken and turkey meal, soybean meal, animal fat, maize gluten meal, digest, vegetable oil, dried whole egg, flaxseed, salt, L-carnitine supplement, potassium chloride, vitamins and trace elements. Naturally preserved with mixed tocopherols, citric acid and rosemary extract.

Both are similar in price,and yet one is leaps and bounds ahead of the other.....

As others said I think the best food is what suits your dog. I just wanted to suggest talking to your puppy's breeder as there may be things specific to their lines. I was having trouble getting weight on my puppy because when I upped the quantity she tended to get squitty. Talking to my breeder about this it turned out too much protein was the problem, not too much food. A little advice from her, a few more carbos, and my girl was back on track. :)

Thanks for the replies I got her as a two year old so am finding something that suits her myself as she was on a very low in anything diet before (scraps mainly I think). She seems to be doing well on the Hills but it seems shes getting bored of it, I do lower the quantity and add tuna, sometimes mince (has been frozen) raw eggs etc and she eats it then and really enjoys it. Is it ok to mix in things to a complete food?

> Is it ok to mix in things to a complete food?

Yes. I do it regularly,and always have done. The more fresh foods you can incorporate into the diet,the better.The best dry food in the world isnt going to provide your dog what fresh,real foods can.

>The best dry food in the world isnt going to provide your dog what fresh,real foods can

Demonstrably they do :)
It's up to you if you want to add bits, shazbrat, personally, I might if I have bits of left overs although, goodness knows, that's rare in this house :) but I would tend not to when there is any inclination to picky eating as I believe it encourages it and before you know it you are committed to the practice of continous novelty :)

I'm with isabel on that one.  A compleat food is compleate with everything a dog needs :)

Ours get afew left overs on their dinner as and when there are any.  And also chicken ings now and again as treats after they have eaten.

You know, its always puzzled me why we make our dogs eat food they don't like by adding things they do like to it, which is usually some type of fresh food...tuna, chicken etc. to it. Complete may well contain all thats needed (according to the makers) but many will suit one dog, but not another hense all the allergies etc to certain brands. Put a dish of meat and biccies down, and I would like to bet the majority of dogs would wolf it down. Put down meat and biccies and a bowl of complete and I bet I know which they would chose.........Do people chose complete for convienence, or because they don't feel confident in feeding raw food? When you look at the ingrediants in unknown completes, they don't seem to differ from many of the more expensive named varieties. Raw food and biccies (not the ones with all the additives) works out cheaper to feed, and gives bowls that hardly need more than a wipe out, healthy dogs, and no additives and preservatives, colours or anything that is not needed in a dogs diet...same as for us, we don't need all this either.

I feed Arden Grange. My two love it (one being a very picky eater). I'm very happy with their condition too.

I don't feed completely raw because I don't have the knowledge to do it right and am not happy with feeding some raw bones (I'm happy with the large marrow and knuckle bones but the one time I gave my dog a lamb drumstick the shards that came out were sharper than my chisels) I know everything has risks and loads of people do it with no problems. I have a friend who BARFs her dog with no trouble. It's just me. I'd feel better if he ate whole food like a rabbit carcass because that at least has the fur to 'pad' those bones :-D and I am quite happy to chuck raw food into their bowl. For many storage would be a problem too. I'd have to get a separate freezer and put it in the detached garage but at least I have a garage. I would say lack of knowledge and the confidence to get it right coupled with storage would be the top reasons. Plus you have to be pretty dog saavy to even know about raw feeding. A lot of average pet owners might have even heard about BARF.

>.........Do people chose complete for convienence, or because they don't feel confident in feeding raw food?

Definately the former for me :)  Have never really given a thought to raw as have no reason to but posters tell us it is not difficult so don't see why anyone should not feel confident about learning to do this if they wish.

I don't feed raw because:

I'm a vegetarian and I don't want to sit there with a pile of dead animals in front of me!  Maybe?

Or the fact I gave my dog raw chicken wings and within a couple of days he was at the vets with colitis!  Maybe?

Or maybe I had a dog that suffered from growth plate problems being fed a more 'raw' diet and a complete diet along with calcium tablets rectified this! 

And my dogs dishes are always washed thoroughly  once a day especially in hot weather, urgh, imagine eating off of dishes coated in saliva......yeuch.   And their dishes are always licked clean too on complete!

Or maybe because feeding raw made my dog underweight and he had a bad coat condition whilst on raw? (Not unheard of)

Or maybe because the owner can't afford to feed raw in money, time or space wise :)  Lets face it all of us are on a budget, just different amounts!  Also not everyone has time to prepare raw between working, walking dogs, picking up kids from school, feeding family, going dog training aswell as general ouse duties and socilising with friends!  Then where do you store all your raw food?  In a freezer?  Where does the freezer go?  Food freezer's full with meals for the family etc....

There are many reasons people won't feed raw.  Mine all love dinner time, clean bowels all round plus checking everyone elses is clean aswell, only need a quick wipe! ;)

I must admit our youngest was on raw meats and meal as a puppy as she wouldn't eat complete foods, for her it worked but there's no way we could have done that for 5 dogs, as soon as she started eating compleat again she was back onto it.  admitidly our first choice didn't agree with her and she's now on Arden Grange and has a lovely skin and coat, good poo's, very lively, healthly looking with bright eyes etc so whats wrong with hwat we are feeding her?

>Or maybe because feeding raw made my dog underweight and he had a bad coat condition whilst on raw?

>Or maybe I had a dog that suffered from growth plate problems being fed a more 'raw' diet and a complete diet along with calcium tablets rectified this!

In my experience,if a dog does as poorly as described above on it's natural diet then more than likely something is missing from it. Feeding a species appropriate diet is not that hard,however one must make sure the dog is receiving all of the vitamins and minerals from all of the differing  food groups,which can be achieved by feeding plenty of variety,NOT feeding only one or two protein sources,giving the appropriate amount of rmb's(calcium),or the recommended amount of a calcium supplement such as egg shells.

Too many people feed only muscle or organ meat,or no organ meat at all, and of the same kind continuously,dont give enough rmb's,if at all and a multitude of other wrongs....

If too many people are managing a multitude of wrongs maybe it is a little bit hard :)

>maybe it is a little bit hard

Nope,not at all.They shouldnt believe everything they hear and should look into it before leaping in.I know someone who thought a raw diet consisted of a bowl of minced meat,or one who fed only tripe etc etc.If they applied a little common sense they would realised that this was an innapropriate way of feeding a canine.Laziness,squeemishness of raw meat and an ignorance is bliss attitude accounts for alot it :(

But you say that many make a multitude of mistakes so whatever you are putting it down it would appear, from what you are saying, that many people cannot manage it. 
Anyway it doesn't take lots of common sense to see, from the hundreds of thousand of dogs that live long and healthy lives, that a complete diet devised by someone that has sat and worked it all out is very much an appropriate way to feed a canine.

If it's so easy to get it wrong then perhaps it's not ideal in all circumstances after all.

Ice Queen, you're sensible to feed what suits your individual dog, and not get sucked into the hype that there is only one good feeding regime. :)

>If it's so easy to get it wrong then perhaps it's not ideal in all circumstances after all.

Like i said,not everyone has loads of common sense.So many families have trouble feeding themselves a healthy diet,and cant even get that right.Dogs are slightly more intricate to feed than humans,but not by that much.

Thanks JG.  I'm glad that it's clearly only one person who shoots people down for what they feed, everyone else seems to go with "what suits your dog" :D

I got a copy of V. Stillwells fat dog slim the other day (was free with our dogs renewal) and I found it extreamly intresting because she explained each way of feeding (dry, wet, raw etc) and put each into equal "arguments" of why they are good for the dog

For as long as a dog eats something and looks good on it I will continue feeding it on that.

Ktee, I don't think everyone does have the time or the time to learn to feed raw, and again not everyone has the space, your ok if you can get the food daily however I have seen many customers buying their dogs food and have helped plenty of them choose the most suitable food (dry).  I will normally mention raw feeding to customers as another option (especially those dogs who don't like or don't suit a number of dry foods) but when you mention it requires research on the different meats and what each contain, plus feeding vegetables etc they don't want to know, and why should they when they can have a perfectly healthy pet of a bag of dry food?  Now I don't know how many, if any at all, that I have mentioned it to have tried feeding raw after research or not but to me raw is just another way of feeding, it's not the best way of feeding :)

Homemade diets, if wrong, can do more harm than good; just look at the huge numbers of unhealthy humans who do just that! A good complete food for humans would save many from an early death from the effects of a bad homemade diet.

If they applied a little common sense

Dunces cap and naughty chair in the corner for me then.

i feed Genisis.Its Fabulous

We are on a very tight budget, and i have found fresh to be cheaper. The storage is not a problem, the local stockist I have to pass every day anyway, so make use of their freezer. However, the pennies are being saved, and hopefully soon I will be able to buy a dog food freezer. I'm not bothered about handling raw food, but can understand why someone else may not like that, same goes for doggy bowls. Mixing it with meal dosent take that much extra time. I like to know what I'm paying for, and after reading what has been said here about food, then looking at all the info on the web regarding food, and talking to people i know who have fed large kennels on fresh food, and knowing how good their dogs were, and the fact hunt kennels dogs are fed raw and they are so fit and healthy, i just decided that what was best for mine is what they are on now, and I'm happy. They love their bones too, its wonderful seeing them get stuck into them, their teeth seem better too. feeding is such a personal thing, and I go with JG in that if your dog is well, then stick with what you know suits them. The only proof that your dogs are doing well is their condition, but if someone who was having a problem were to ask me, then I would certainly say give raw a go.

When I have fed raw i always found it much more expensive.  but I live in a city with little storage space for frozen stuff.

I store all my dogs meat in my freezer.They get one shelf,i get the other.I buy their stuff along with mine when i do my weekly groceries.Buying a seperate freezer would be a waste for me as i would never be able to fill it.

The best diet is the one that is species appropriate and designed to give your dog optimum health and lifespan. 

All dogs are different as are their owners.

You must do what YOU believe is best based on the knowledge and informed opinion that is available to you taking into account personal circumstances and budget.

There are many dogs around the world that live to ripe old ages with nary a visit to a vet scavenging out of dustbins and others that fed the "best" snuff it at an early age.

you might find this information useful it's a list of food sources that match up to each breeds nutritional requirements, however please remember not everything that appears on the internet or in print is accurate, but the information provided is a good starting point and makes for a very intereting read.

http://home.att.net/~wdcusick/free.html

Whatever breed you choose the author says the best diet for that breed is one prepared at home using fresh ingredients - so it may not be the best link for a 'whats the best complete food' post :)

They do vary a bit.  Apparently, I should have been feeding my Dandie horse meat.  A little more information about qualification and how data was established for such a huge undertaking might give it all a little more credence :)

I think you'll find links to information regarding qualificationa and how the data was established on the persons home page.

http://home.att.net/~wdcusick/index.html

I did look at that page and got a bit fed up, it's not the easiest to read is it? :) and could not be bothered to open all the links to maybe just find more of the same.  Could you narrow it down to which link actually tells us his qualifications and where and how he obtained the data?

Well I have no-idea what to feed my irish red and white setter :)  Not much good to me really.

I'm in your club Rox too as it doesn't even mention Munsterlanders let alone the Small or Large varieites.  I think our white coated friend would be best acquainting himself with an A-Z of dog & cat breeds...............

I would not be too insulted not to find your breed on there :)  I'd be quite interested to know where they found a sufficient number of Dandies, let alone ones who owners were willing to enter any trials, to provide any meaningful data to draw the conclusions he seems to have managed.

Let's just say Isabel I'm not shedding any tears!   ;)

Right, I've found this but I'm still none the wiser.  He wears a white coat and he seems to have worked in food and pharmacy but he might have been a lab tech for all we know.

Ok this link says documenting the claims and gives details  http://home.att.net/~wdcusick/05.html

http://home.att.net/~wdcusick/09.html states:
PLEASE NOTE: Since I have spent over thirty years studying the nutritional requirements of different dog breeds (18 years in the lab doing pharmacological studies and 30 years of feeding trials), I feel qualified to give advice on feeding dogs. On the other hand, since I have not studied any of the other species that we take into our lives and love, I do not feel qualified to recommend a diet for these. To all cat owners and others I apologize, commiserate and ask that you don't ask me to provide dietary information. I do not know how different cat breeds nutritional requirements vary and therefore could cause as many problems as a commercial pet food manufacturer that only makes one recipe for all cats.

>18 years in the lab doing pharmacological studies and 30 years of feeding trials

In what capacity though?  He might have been the bloke that dished it out and washed up after for all we know.  The generally accepted practice in research publication is to list your qualifications and these generally will be a recognisable qualification from an accredited source.

True, which is why in my original post I said "please remember not everything that appears on the internet or in print is accurate, but the information provided is a good starting point and makes for a very intereting read"

Well the GR page says the origin of the breed can not be documented and later on the page it says "...Wherever the Golden Retriever originated, ... Hmm, not much of a breed specialist then is he. :-D It's not exactly an ancient breed is it. I don't think it's that hard to trace the origins and history of a golden.

Erm ... it says that yeast is the best source of various vitamins for a dalmatian, and yet yeast is very high on the list of high purine-yielding foods which should never be fed to dalmatians! More research needed, I think!

Certainly it has been found with my breed that they can have problems if not fed enough fat in their diet, but also they need to have a lot less food than many dogs of similar size, as they are generally very good doers.

Thanks all, its very interesting to see all the differing opinions. She is staying on the Hills as she has all of a sudden got the taste back for it again. She has come into season too which is probably the cause of her going off it in the first place.