well I am member number one but I know of 2 others who may post later :D

Smaller class this time - just 11 and yes -you've guessed it we weren't in the "magic 5". I was really pleased with Phoebie though and she wagged her tail throughout and I was really pleased with her (and my) performance. Had a great day and found a couple of friendly Goldie exhibitors who had long chats with me and got a few Hello's from some I saw at Birmingham too so overall was a worthwhile day. One of them complimented Phoebie and liked her personality and colour - turned out her MPB was from the same sire ;)

Met up with Metpol, Jackie and ClaireB and saw some others I know too from ringraft :)

Sara and a very dozy Phoebie :)

Diane - just want to say how sweet Buffy is - I wouldn't mind her curled up on my lap on a night :D

Oh Sara, let me down again, never mind you'll make my day, one day. come to think of it, if there were 11 in the class & only 5 got placed, then you & Pheobs were in the majority. :D Well done.

Hi Beany, glad you enjoyed yourself. Pheo sounds like she is picking up the showing game very quickly.:)

pleased you enjoyed yourself!!! you'll have to go for owning a slow maturer, :D

good logic Jackie :D

The woman who chatted to me and had used the same sire as Phoebs was saying that Phoe is how she likes to see them - a pup who is a pup and we had a long talk about her size and she was of a view not to worry as will catch up and be just right ;) She was full of loads of helpful tips about the whole showing lark - was nice to talk to her. She Judges open shows from what she said so I must look out for her name ;) As to slow maturing Dizzy - do you think we'll be OK by veteran class :D

Other highlight of my day was Frank Kane stood about 2 feet from us at one stage - was going to tap him on the shoulder and say "hey you - just go over my dog and tell me what you think" but decided he probably wouldn't appreciate it ;)

Well I'm glad you had a good day out and enjoyed it:)
I must admit I do smile when I read your posts as I can still remember the Never ever show posts, then the well may be we'll try a couple of opens and ringcraft would be good for Phoebe:) And now we have the try and stop me posts:D

:P - you're as bad as ClaireB Anita - she took great pleasure in winding me up today about my comments at Crufts about showing not being my thing ;)
Anyway - you can't talk - you'll be as bad as me when you get a pup :D
Sara ;)

Oh no, I've been reading the show quality thread ;)
You are always so enthusiastic about your day out whatever the outcome:)

well I believe in finding the good points about everything I do Anita :D If I didn't look for the good in today I'd sit here and cry and sulk about being chucked ;)

Must admit I'd be scared if I was you - the show mentor you're going to have will cut you NO slack lol lol !!!!

*quivering*:D
When I posted about looking at the handlers I wasn't thinking about people looking at ME, just handlers in general. When I've been to shows I've been looking at the dogs not the person on the end of the lead:D Frightened the life out of me I can tell you:D

Saraw treat this time as an apprenticeship and learn from it
Phoebe is a lovely dog no doubt there . I think if you stick with it you will break through . Every dog has its day .
It is just a matter of waiting .When I wasa starting out I used to say I am going out for a nice day with my dog.
If I win its a bonus if I dont well I had a nice day no worries .
Lol Marie

well a nice day it was Marie - cried with laughter at times with Jackie (with the cockers who posts on here) on the journey there and back, was pleased to be acknowledged by a few more people in the breed, met another Champdogger to add to my list and it didn't rain :D :D :D

Would you believe it i have just got in !!!!! got stuck in traffic on the m1, nightmare.
Sara you can have Buffy anytime to cuddle up to, nice to have met some more champdoggers even when i didnt get a thing, never mind theres always next time, highlight of the day buying a trolley so i dont have to lug cage, bag, etc to the bench next time hooray.

A very tired Diane

Sara glad you still enjoyed your day! :) havn't been online until friday as the bl**dy phone lines were down again.
She will have her day unfortunatly like me you picked one of the most popular breeds.
I will email you if I see a judge that will like her type a PROPER colour golden that she is! :)

Sara i was talking to the breeders of Buffy today and she said that i have to get my face known within the breed, and basically it doesnt matter weather you have a good dog or not that you end up wasting your first dog for the mear fact that your not known, i think this is so ridiculous its amazing and she also seemed to think that they take the coats shorter in the north of england it makes me laugh how everyone seems to do different things although we all seem to have the same breed, just like the split we have seen within the gsds, still never mind i will plod on and eventually get known even though i have been showing gsds and showing my friends leonberger even at crufts, maybe i should put posters up do you think that will work?

lol Diane - you could always wear a bill board in the ring saying "I have been around a bit" :D
Actually on second thoughts that may not be the best choice of words ;)

To a degree I believe what is said about getting your face seen seems to be true - however I would hope if you had a stunning dog then that wouldn't matter at all. If however your dog was on a par with a well known breeders dog then they would perhaps have a better chance - although even then it could be that they know just a little bit more about getting 110% from their dog in the ring :)
(I choose to believe this as I don't want to get too cynical just yet ;) :rolleyes: ) (I'm sure I will in time though lol)

Sara :)

Sara w,
I think you're right. If your dog was on a par the odds would be better for the better handler. As I've said before , it's years since I showed but at that time people used to say that Goldens were more judged by who was holding the lead. I couldn't say that was always true though because at one of our first champ shows at SKC, I ended up being the only Scottish person that got down to the cut and we ended up with a 2nd. :) :) So it's not always "face" judging.

You're definitely doing the right thing. You're enjoying it and you're meeting people in the breed, getting tips etc. and people are giving you the right signals about Phoebie so I bet you'll get there in the end. Then I can say " I know her through Champdogs" :) :) :D :D
Dot

Hi Diane

Was your breeder pulling your leg about northern Cocker people??? I don't think there's any difference in coats or Cocker type geographically though some exhibitors show their Cockers with too much coat but that's another story :-) If you look at photos of the top breeder's dogs, many are shown with less coat than some of the newer exhibitors - people like Penny Lester & Tricia Bentley don't leave excess hair on their dogs & no, they don't come from the north :-) There is no split in Cockers re North & South that I've ever noticed but the very idea has given me a chuckle or two :D

Jane

Hi Jane

Its just that i have never seen a cockers coat that short, i thought they had all been shaved when i first got there it was that short, i could hear my breeders voice in my head saying there over hand stripped, they all had coats like americans, still not to worry, but i do think Buffy should have done better she looked nicer than some of them and that wasnt just my opinion, still mid counties next time, onwards and upwards.

Oh you mean the hair on the body coat - I thought you meant length of feathering & the like, sorry. It's still not a geographical thing though, some people do over strip (not necessarily by hand) but they're not confined to the north. I've had a look at the Darlington results & a lot of the dogs were ones you will see at shows all over the country ie the usual suspects :-) The judge was from Scandinavia so not sure she could be accused of being overly facey, though obviously even overseas judges know the top exhibitors in any breed. See you at Midland Counties - have a feeling it will be a bumper entry :-)

Jane

She didnt seem to pick a type either, so you wouldnt know what she was going to pick next, my breeder is going next time i am thinking of asking him to show her to see what happens, thats if he wants to, still see what happens.

No I thought the winning dogs were all very different too :-)

Yes you could get your breeder to handle Buffy, but you wouldn't get that personal sense of achievement that you get by doing it for yourself. A friend of ours asked my other half to show her puppy last year as she thought she had no chance of qualifying this pup by herself (being quite new to Cockers) He said no because he felt she just needed for more confidence & she wouldn't get it by passing the handling over to someone else - he was right as she qualified her pup a short while later & it was all her own work - nobody could point & say the dog only won its place because the handler was well known :-)

Jane

Diane

I agree with Jane. I too was tempted to get someone else to handle mine - but was pursuaded not to and to do it myself. I am so glad I did coz it is a much greater sense of acheivement, plus you don't know how your dog will handle with someone else. They are not guranteed to do any better. I tried to handle my friends dog last year as she was so nervous but all he did was look for her. He got his lowest placing ever.

Keep at it - I will come and say Hello when I'm next at a show, promise.

Pam n the boys

thanks Ems - thought you'd beeen a bit quiet - now I know the reason why
S xx

You will always hear it said that you have to be around for a while before you do any winning, so it must be face judging. But, if you are honist with yourself and sit and watch a class being judged, you will see why, not only do those 'who have been around for a while' show their dogs better but they often have the better dogs as they have learned how to pick a good one.
This should not depress a new exhibitor, as every one has to learn and when you are the new one that is what you are doing. some of us spend longer than others, geting off the bottom step. I find the way I get pleasure from my showing is, am I pleased with the way my dog and I performed and if I am then I've had a good day regardless of what the judge did.
Mind you some people make it with their first dog and spend the rest of their showing life trying to repeat the exercise and others go from strength to strength. Sometimes & very exciting a total novice has a big win, not sure it does them any favours though as they spend the next few years wondering where they are going wrong now. Ja:)kie

JackieH ..that has to be the most insightful thing Ive read here this morning :) I am sure you are right ..the longer you play the game , the better you get at it and can show your dog to its full potential.

Melody

Thanks Melody, you had me running for the dictionary never remember seeing the word insightful before, but your right, must remember that. Must also go and do the morning washing up, Husbands out all day and apart from feeding the hounds I've spent all morning at the PC. Jackie

Jackie, you are correct when you say that often it is the better dogs who win but we definitely have 'colour' or 'coat' judging in our breed when you will find that a judge will always give the top awards to the red roughs, or roughs generally over the smooths or things like that and I do object to one of my dogs being beaten by an inferior dog just because it is a different colour.

A friend who gives tickets in many of the toy breeds has recently bred a litter of black and tans and has been talking about the pups to his friends. He told me last week that several top judges who give tickets in Griffons and do the group, and even best in shows, have sounded surprised and said they didn't know black and tan was an acceptable colour. Does that mean they have never read the standard before judging us?

We have a recorded instance of a judge giving a first to a black or a black and tan and then saying in his critique what an absolutely wonderful dog it was, just such a pity it wasn't a red. Well, why is it a pity? Black and Black and Tan are just as acceptable as red and should not be penalised.

Joan
Take the rough with the smooth

Sure your right Joan, you will know how things are in your own breed and yes like the lady who felt her Saluki should hold it's head higher than it did because the dogs with high head carrage were doing well, although it is not the natural place for the head to be held, so in all breeds we go through fashions and fads. I do think the judges do have some responsibility for allowing some of these 'fads' to creep in, like standing the dog like a rocking horse, it only takes the dog stood like that to win a couple of times, probable despite the stance not because of it, and you will find all the other exhibitors copying. Funny breed Homos's.
I was however talking about the novice exhibitor feeling that because they were new to the game they were being over looked when the truth was they were not very good at handling and/or picking show dogs. And saying that most of the successful exhibitors had been throught it 10 or more years ago and their time would come if they stick in there. And while they are waiting enjoy. If you think this colour thing is going to continue then I supose the only thing is if you can't beat them join them, or like me stick to what you like and hope your time will come.
Ja:)kie

Agree entirely Jackie. I was convinced my Jasper was going to be the next Crufts winner!!!! lol and that handling was a doddle. I have learnt so much over the past year and handle the boys so differently. There will always be times when we feel we deserved to do better, but for me, if the dogs have performed well and I feel I have done my best then I'm happy. In the early days - I was delighted if Buddy stayed of his bottom!!!!! and that Jasper let the judge twiddle his dangly bits - lol:D

The thing that gives me the biggest boost is when people say how well the boys looked or moved etc. That is just as important to me as getting a place - although a win is nice;)

Pam n the boys

Isn't it nice when someone who's opinion you value says 'you deserved that win' or 'I thought you would have done better than that he's looking good' Means so much more coming from a breed elder than a BOB from someone you don't know and your not sure if they know anything more about your breed that you do. Ja:)kie

Jackie

I remember you saying to me early on :

>>>>I find the way I get pleasure from my showing is, am I pleased with the way my dog and I performed and if I am then I've had a good day regardless of what the judge did.

This is how I look at it now and it works for me :D

Sara

and so say all of us!! Despite being able to join the Dumped At Darlington club I did enjoy my day - thanks Sarah & Phoebe for your company on the looooong journey. Once more I have learned from the experience and got some very useful tips from some Cocker exh at ringside. I really appreciate this kind of constructive critisism and hope I can use it to my advantage next time:) I can understand what you mean Metpol about Cocker coats - the first show I ever took Tucker to was a real eye opener - I thought he looked the bees knees so to speak - but he had at least twice as much hair as all the other exh put together:) I am learning .....slowly and thoroughly enjoying it too!!

well I was amazed you managed to stay awake Jackie - thought my company would send you to sleep lol :D
Sara :)
P.S. - You're not a harridan (sp) in the mornings ;) !!!