Hi everyone I'm hoping someone on Champdogs can help me or at least give me a few ideas.  I have recently lost my old Golden Retriever, Abby, which we are all slowly coming to terms with.  However one of my other dogs, Abbys daughter, Penny, had to have a routine checkup and jabs etc.  I have always thought that she had a back problem but whenever I have mentioned this the vets have said it was hips and not back and she was given Rimadyl.  Also she started to have fits/turns in the last 3 years.  The vet said this was probably Epilepsy.   The fits are very mild and she doesn't have many of them, I have described the fits as almost having a back spasm, i.e can't move, mainly through fear of the pain, holding breath, clenching teeth.  These fits usually last 1-2 minutes and afterwards Penny is absolutely fine, also 9 times out of 10 these fits happen when she has been asleep for a while or laying down for some time.  At Pennys checkup she had an X-ray on her back and hips, the hips were good, but she has arthritis in her spine at one point she has what the vet called a bridge, the arthritis goes from one disc to another.  What I'm asking is could these fits actually be a back spasm or is it mild epilepsy.

Sorry to go on so long, any help gratefully received.

JanW

If the dog has arthritis of the spine and a problem with one of the discs it actually could be the pain of this only that's causing this and not actually a fit.

I've had problems with my old dog, screaming out very occasionally, holding her neck down and swinging her front right leg.  The vet that I saw today agrees with what I thought it might be at first and that's a disc problem too!!  Quite a relief in some ways but as someone who suffers with neck and back problems I know how she feels!!

Hi Jan,

Sorry about your girls, hope Penny gets better soon.

Yes, I think it could possibly be the spine; when Spender slipped his disc, he would get an attack every so often where he cry out, haunch himself in his bed, jaws clenched, eyes wide, then they would dull, he would lie for a few minutes and then he'd get up and he seemed ok albeit a bit subdued.  With him, he wasn't using his tail like he normally does and as he walked, he was holding his spine rigid, it wasn't flexing with movement.

When the disc finally protruded, it compressed the spinal cord which affected his rear movement.

If the abnormalities in the spine are compressing nerves, nerve pain can be excruciating and that in turn can cause a spasm in the surrounding muscles. 

Are there any other symptoms of these 'fits'? Are her eyes flickering, is she completely out of it? This might sound like a strange question but does she have evening primrose oil?

Thank you all for your replies, I'm glad you're thinking along the same lines as I am, gives me some confidence.  I suffer from back problems and it was when I had a back spasm that I realised it was very similar to Penny's attack!  When she has one of her fits/attacks she is fully conscious, no eye flickering, she seems to know who we are, i.e. she responds to our voices and touch.  It will last for approx 1 minute and when it is over she will slowly relax her body, get up and wag her tail and wonder off albeit a little stiffly, she will quite happily have something to eat and drink.  I have searched the internet and read alot of information on Epilepsy and have watched a video clip of a "Chinnook Seizure" this is quite similar to Penny's fits/attacks.  Also we were told by the vet to see what triggers the attacks try to find a pattern - as yet we can't seem to find anything.  The only thing I can think of for the most recent fit (Monday evening) is that we lost her mum just over a week ago.

Penny doesn't have Evening Primrose Oil at the moment, I give her some tablets from Dorwest Herbs for arthritis.  Any information on fits like these or spinal problems gratefully received, I live in France and my vet who is excellent doesn't speak very much English, I speak a little French but like to do my homework and translate a few things before I go.

Anyway thanks again.
Jan and Penny

The only reason I asked about the EPO is that when I gave my own Goldie some EPO capsules he developed similar type symptoms which stopped as soon as the EPO was stopped and he has never had an episode since (this was only over a period of a couple of weeks). It may just have been coincidence but I did read on the back of the bottle the pills came in that they shouldn't be given to epileptics. I know a fair few Goldies who are epileptic so I suppose if there is a tendancy in his breeding somewhere the EPO may have triggered the episodes even though he had never shown any symptoms before. It may be worth having a word with Dorwest, I don't know what is in their arthritis tablets?