Ok, I might get shot down in flames here - but is it really appropriate to be spending so much money on the Cutty Sark renovation?

I gather the national Lottery has just handed over millions - yet there are projects and charities all over the country desperate for money.

Is it really such a tourist attraction?

It's an important piece of our history as it's one of only two tea clippers left in existence.  I would like to see it renovated and think it's the sort of thing that Lotto money should be spent on.  Worthwhile charities that are considered extremely worthy and essential by some shouldn't have to rely on Lotto money, they should be funded by central government.  Money used by central government for good charities could come from the salaries of useless politicians.

(scrapes soap box back underneath desk)

Shouldn't it have been better protected if worth so much and costing so much to renovate?!

Yes, absolutely! 

Is it coincidence that the fire started when all the most important parts (masts, rigging, contents) had already been removed for the renovations and there were electrical tools and equipment (fires are commonly started by electrical equipment) left on board?

I wonder why is wasn't insured....unless it's because it is left in the open....If  my car wasn't insured I'd be in hot water with the law!

She is uninsurable they have public liability insurance of course but that actual ship is uninsurable

True - very many things are too valuable to be insurable.

As it was arson  I think the arsonist would have found a way to set it on fire no matter what was in place to prevent it

She was also the one of the fastest clippers in her day but never actually the fastest & is the last of the Tea Clippers in existance

She was & will be again the most beautiful ship that is part of the heritage of the UK

From the site

>She was preserved in Greenwich partly as a memorial to the men of the merchant navy, particularly those who lost their lives in the world wars.

>the last of the Tea Clippers in existance

Nearly, but not quite. There is also the City of Adelaide which is actually older; but the Cutty Sark was the last to be built for the purpose of importing tea.

When its rebuilt will they still be able to call it the original cutty sark or will it have to be called a replica :) :)

Ok, so it was the last to be built for the purpose of importing tea...

...and?!

Sorry - I still don't get it. I don't get why something so valuable was out in the open, not protected by cctv and open to all sorts of abuse.

And yet again there is a small fortune being poured into something in London - the whole universe does not revolve around London :rolleyes:

Loads of valuable and irreplaceable things are out in the open - Stonehenge, the Angel of the North, HMS Victory, Shakespeare's Birthplace ...

Actually it is true as the Cutty Sark is the last Tea clipper the City of Adelaide was not built as a Tea clipper

Subtle difference The City of Adelaide was not was not ever used as a Tea clipper carrying nothing but tea.

Exactly the same type of ship (or is she a boat? I forget the technical difference), though. They're both Clippers.

Went on board her with a school outing many moons ago

My OH and I asked the same question Carla.

Call me a weirdo (its happened before im sure)..... but to me it feels sad and wrong that she is always going to be just an expensive bauble.... never to actually get wet again?

I dunno, i like ships, something about them, and it feels very sad that she is having all this work done... but wont sail ever. I dont think id like to go and see her as she is proposed to be by 2009, however if she ever sailed again id kill to be in the crew!

So its ok for this government to steal lottery money for the olympics, when it should be spent on good causes, art, charities and minority sports. The money for this project is probably a drop in the ocean compared to the waste on anything to do with IT that this government has a hand in and the billions spent on  Iraq, I could go on, don't get me started. Why couldn't the money that Blair and Prescott are wasting on their world tours go towards it. I didn't know that it was arson, I thought that the results of the investigation proved inconclusive. Sorry for the rant.

Sorry but I think it's a waste of money, though actually have to admit I'd never even heard of it before, so it can't be that important in history to most people as we weren't told about it at school!

I just can't believe what our government spends our money on and I have to say that I'm not that impressed with the Olympics being held in London, takes hours to get into London on a normal day hate to know what it's going to be like in 2012!

The problem with all this is that what is one person's waste of money is another's well spent money :) :) It would be a very boring world if nothing were preserved and no money spent on anything remotely entertaining :) :) Now the Cutty Sark (from Robbie Burn's poem Tam O'Shanter - Cutty Sark meaning a short shirt :D ) was a part of my childhood. We visited several times, either with school or with parents - so it means a lot to me, as a Londoner and probably to a lot of others :) :)

There must be things that mean a lot to you that you wouldn't want to disappear :D :D

Daisy

OH and I went to see her this weekend as we were across the road at Greenwich market, were grabbing a coffee and thought we ought to go see...
there is a tent beside her and it was absolutely packed mainly with families... I was saddened to see her, but heartened at the amount of kids (who werent sat in front of a nintendo screen at home, but out there smelling seeing and feeling history!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) worth every penny to my mind...its easy to be an arm chair critic..get out there and live it!!!!!!!! ;)

I'm sorry but they'd already spent a load of money on it going to restore it and now they'll be putting millions more into it again.  Money that could be going to charities which would save peoples lives.  Sorry but I think that there are more important research options etc. that the money should go to now! 

Other people will realise now that when it is being re-renovated that they could do the same thing and yet again it's not insured so we would end up paying again!

There are a lot of historic things that I love but many of them are looked after and kept well.  In effect this will no longer be the original because much of it is burnt out so we will actually be seeing a 21 century made boat!  But that's only my opinion of course :d

I wonder how much the renovation of a cathedral, for example, costs? In fact most are being continually renovated and repaired so the cost nevr stops. But they're still inspirational; history and historical objects are also inspirational to many people. Far better renovate the Cutty Sark than build a small fraction of the Olympic village.

Yes but many are either funded by the local community or if they have a good funding institute funded in other ways. Or unfortunately of course many are left to decay and die!  Just seems a shame that many buildings around the Manchester area that were monumental places in their time have just been left.  On a road on the way to Wilmslow there is a building that looks as though it must have been something many years ago but it's still standing there with no roof, hardly any walls but the black and white wooden areas are still to be seen as though they were only painted recently.  Such a shame that a building that must have been magnificent in it's time is just a few bricks!

I know that it's not for us to decide in many ways what should or should not be saved but this will have been totally renovated twice in as many years and how much are we having to pay for this yet again!  I still feel that there are more important things in life that our money could be put towards, but there again we do have a government that puts it's nose into places that it knows nothing about and then pays £400,000.00 for a logo that's absolutely awful!

Then that would be a much wider discussion.... "is Lottery money disributed appropriately" (?)
As it stands there is allocation for National heritage ( a given)
Carla asks "is the Cutty Sark such a Tourist attraction"
.. and I can vouch, from being there this Sunday that, yes, it appears it is, having seen the crowds there (and I'll admit I was surprised)
     I stood at one part of the exhibition and pretended to be Kate winslet (:rolleyes:..I know! I know!) and a little Japanese boy who spoke no conversational English stood behind me and sang "Near..far..whereever you are" (:D) me and OH had a (mainly hand waving monosyllabic) conversation with the parents to which others around us joined in,an elderly lady who's family's wealth was built up on the East India Trading company had some amazing stories.. it was to me a great experience and gave me much more than a book or the internet ever could.

though actually have to admit I'd never even heard of it before, so it can't be that important in history to most people as we weren't told about it at school!

We learnt about the Cutty Sark when I was at school and also had a school trip to visit it as well :)

The trouble with history is the subject matter increases every single day - when I was at school a lot of what is now taught in modern history lessons hadn't yet occurred :D

I think it would be a great shame if she was not restored.

I'm not exactly young but it definitely wasn't mentioned in my day, but there again maybe the northerners didn't think it important (I'm being sarcastic not nasty)!!  It does make you wonder why you hear only about certain things, all that I can ever really remember being taught and shown in history was about steam engines!!!  I know that they can't teach you everything that's happened in life but surely that would of been as interesting as steam engines

I originally went to an RAF school in Kenya and we learnt about it there :) and also when we returned to live in this country it was included in our history lessons :)

I am mid 30's and we didn't discuss it at school. But we didn't have school trips into London because we were too far away....

I'm not sure whether its the Cutty Sark I resent - or yet MORE cash being poured into London.

Why don't they pay to renovate it out of their squillions from the congestion charges?

"I'm not sure whether its the Cutty Sark I resent - or yet MORE cash being poured into London"

The Cutty Sark is a national treasure and part of our dwindling heritage. I know it is popular these days to try and rid us of everything that is markedly 'British', but it will be a sad day when we turn our backs on the very things that helped form our identity. As an island race, our heritage is linked to the sea. The Cutty Sark is a beautiful vessel and she should be restored for future generations to enjoy. The fact that she is in London is neither here nor there. Greenwich has a history of all things maritine and long may it continue. There are so few things left in the UK now that point to our roots and if saving a ship of this beauty, helps in any small way to do that, then she should be saved. It would be a tragedy to turn our backs on her.

I can think of millions of things that money has been spent on which in my eyes was a waste of resources. Everyone has their own opinions on what is a waste and I doubt we will all agree :)

Agree 100% The inhabitants of these islands have been seafarers since dug-out canoes were invented. It's our history - what formed our national identity.

Yes, I am sure it is important in that way - however, with the NHS in crises and schools desperate for money it doesnt seem right to me to be spending millions on renovating it - not from public funds. Why don't they get London businesses to chip in, they make money out of tourism, and get the mayor to cough up.

Its nothing to do with getting rid of everything that is British - its a matter of priorities IMO.

> its a matter of priorities IMO

But if life was always just getting our priorities right would people spend a lot of money on keeping dogs/horses etc etc etc etc etc when the money could be better spent on better food/housing/educating children/health etc etc etc ???? :) :) We all have our prioirities in life - but we will never agree about them :) :)

Daisy

That is the argument my Dad trots out to me the money wasted on the dogs could benefit other people or even pay for me and mine to have holidays.

Why shouldn't money be put into London ??? It is our largest city, it is the Capital, it has the largest number of historic buildings etc, it attracts the most tourists, it produces the biggest contribution to the GDP .......... Do you want any more reasons :) :) I didn't resent the money spent on restoring the Rose window in York Minster when it was destroyed by fire in 1984 :) Or the money spent in Manchester when it was bombed by the IRA :)

Daisy

I think as British people, we ought to preserve our heritage whether we live in England, Ireland, Scotland or Wales.  If the historical attraction is in England, it doesn't really matter where in England.......it is still Britain!

I think as British people, we ought to preserve our heritage whether we live in England, Ireland, Scotland or Wales.  If the historical attraction is in England, it doesn't really matter where in England.......it is still Britain!

Totally agree :) :)

Sometimes I think we forget that we are all British and our heritage plays a vital part in our future :)

When I was a student teacher I lived over an antique shop in Greenwich ( many, many years ago ) ....I could see the Cutty sark from my bedroom window ..she was such a beautiful ship and such a powerful tangible emblem of our past ....I really hope that she is restored to her full glory..personally speaking I would far rather that the money was spent on this kind of thing than on the Olympic games ( I HATE sport !)

Yvonne

Hear hear.

I saw the Cutty Sark when we were at the maritime museum as a teenager.  I was amazed to be allowed on board to see inside.  She is an amazing vessel and the money is far better spent on her than the olympics.  I too hate sport, or rather I hate the fact that sport has been elevated to such importance by the media.  I read somewhere that far more people attend (and spend money on) musical events than sporting events, yet you would never know this by looking at newspapers or tv :(

Lets face it, with suggested future energy supply problems we need the technology this ship represents.  It served us well hundreds of years ago and may yet do in the future.  She is tangible proof that the technology not only works but will last :)