http://uk.news.yahoo.com/skynews/20070524/tuk-pay-as-you-throw-tax-on-rubbish-45dbed5.html

This got me thinking about the extra packing again on our food products.

Wife swap seen a woman leave her packaging behind in the supermarkets.

How do " we" combat it.??

I got my tripe and meat deliveried yesterday. 200 packs in 20 boxes. 20 boxes flattened alone nearly fills my blue recycle bin.

Should we give the excess packaging back to the companies???

We need the coucil to help us to recycle.

Back home most houses now recylce their glass and paper after we got given boxes and a fortnightly collection of the two, however what about tins and plastic?  Our nearest plastic recycling area is way of of the town centre at the dump, yes ok some people can drive their but not everyone can drive or has the time (dump is only open during day and very hard to get there for those people with 9-5 jobs considering many people in the town work in london (40-50 mins train to Kingscross) it can soon add up that people arn't at home 7am-8pm.

If the council came and collected everything there would be more recycling going on I'm sure.

But how does this go for companies?  Will they get charged for what customers leave behind? 

I just can't see it working to be honest.

Also will this "pay as you throw" bring house prices down in area's?  As it seems only some area's will go with the idea will people move away?

Seems too complicated in my opinion, my head hurts!

I don't think the answer is to get the council to come round and collect more.  The collection itself and processing is environmentally costly.  I think Blue is on to it, the solution is to select products that do not have excessive packaging.  The consumer has the power to control this if they wish.
There is a lot of moaning about fortnightly collections at the moment but we have had it for several years.  At first, some of my neighbours, mostly largish families but some not! were obviously struggling with bags of excess rubbish frequently appearing at the side of the wheely bins but this is something you just about never see today so clearly the process has changed a lot of peoples attitutes to recycling and excess packaging.
Our council does take tins but not plastics.  The tip is quite a way away but it happens to be next to a supermarket that I visit about fortnightly so I just collect them up and use the same journey.  Another one lies in the other direction close to the motorway so again I organise myself to utilise any journey in that direction. 
I think if my local recycling facilities were not open on a Saturday or later in the evening as ours is I would be contacting my local councillor to discuss it.

Our local council issues us with bio-degradable plastic sacks into which we put plastic, paper, cardboard, tin foil and metal cans. Everything is put in to the same sack , we don't have to sort it ourselves.

We also have a green wheelie bin into which we can put any composting materials - not food scraps though - that are not composted at home.

Landfill rubbish goes into a black wheelie bin - these sometimes have spot checks done on them and the council won't empty them if they contain items which could be recycled.

They are planning to introduce household glass recycling bins in the future but at present we have to use bottle banks of which there are quite a few - even the villages have them.

We have alternate fortnightly collections which seems to work quite well despite initial objections that bins would smell if not collected weekly and the percentage of rubbish recycled rather than put into landfill sites has increased dramatically.

Our local "tip" recycles : wood, paint, furniture, metal, paper, cardboard, glass, concrete, bricks, soil, batteries, tyres, glasses (for vision), clothes and compost items.

Manufacturers now need to review their packaging criterias - recycling is brilliant but if there wasn't so much excess packaging, unwanted leafleting etc etc it would be even better. As good as recycling is it still takes energy to turn all those unwanted items into recycled, new items - far better to not have so much to recycle in the first place :(

>Also will this "pay as you throw" bring house prices down in area's?

The people trying to get onto the property ladder can hope!

>As it seems only some area's will go with the idea will people move away?

More likely there'll be an increase in fly-tipping.

We have to recycle tins class, clothing and paper etc in black box.  then kitchen waste in brown bin, and cardboard seperately, but gets taken with the food waste.

I find I still have the largest proportion of my rubbish left, and it is plastic bottles and packaging.

I don't drive and am not prepared to treck with carriers several times a week to the nearest bin for that.

Also storing all this recyclign outside the frotn door is hardly a good look.

I loathe being bullied into anything. I feel the council take enough liberties already with the price of council tax - and they are going to fortnightly collections here soon.

How is that going to make people recycle? We need bins that we can sort rubbish into, to be removed regularly. We don't need charging because we are forced to buy highly packaged items in shops.

I will do exactly that though if I have to. I will unpack my stuff, and drop the packaging back to the stores I bought it from.

They need to package things better - they could list ingredients and nutritional percentages on shelves and use minimal packaging for a start.

I mostly choose loose fruit and veg (fussy picker) and I don't put them in bags if they are sold per items i.e. grapefruit, butternut squash.  I don't allow my fish and meat extra wrapped by the cashier either.  small tokens I know but I am trying to consciously think about packaging waste.  After I've put away the shopping I usually end up with packaging waste i.e. a 4xtins of baked beans is cheaper than 4 individual tins so I buy those but really we don't need that extra packing, the tins are identical to the individually sold tins. They could just show that buying 4 is a cheaper option.  Even items that do need packaging i.e. soap powder, cornflakes, etc are often sold in boxes far larger than necessary. 

Our council collects glass, paper, aluminium, garden refuse separately to the general household waste.  I'm not keen on fortnightly collections for everything but I wouldn't mind non-food recycled rubbish being collected once a fortnight or longer as at least it doesn't smell. 

I have to say I was shocked this year when I saw the Easter Eggs appearing on the shelves.  Environmental issues have been such hot topics that I was genuinely surprised to see the same exaggerated amounts of packing for silly little amounts of chocolate.

I think we should go back to having the nice big pantries where you could then bulk buy certain items which would also cut down on the packaging.  I noticed that Tescos have some huge containers of rice for example.

I think they should market the companies that are using less packaging so for once it is in their favour. A lot of companies are scared to bite the bullet as packaging is marketing it is the " Buy me, Buy me".. It doesn't convince us all but alot of people.

Nestles ( sure it was them one of them anyway ;-) was fined recently because the easter egg packaging was heavier than the egg.

Just also saw this on the BCC website :

People say they're fed up with the excessive amount of packaging on food but how much do they really care? A trial in which customers were encouraged to expose examples of over-packaged goods by returning them to the store has been scrapped, due to a lack of interest.  Asda put bins outside two stores in Yorkshire a month ago but shoppers haven't put much packaging in.  Also on the programme: the price of veg is on the up and how farmers are making money by carbon trading.

>I will unpack my stuff, and drop the packaging back to the stores I bought it from.

OH says it's not unusual in Switzerland for people to get their groceries to the supermarket checkout, immediately remove any unnecessary packaging (the cardboard cereal box, for example) and leave that behind before they even pay. That saves them having to pay to have it collected as rubbish or recycling.

I used to do that a lot so that my shopping would fit into my trolley, don't seem to buy as much breakfast cerael these days as the kids have got older.

I am probably in a minority ( of 1 :D) but have to say that, as expensive as council tax is, I think we do actually get good value for money.

If I had to pay individual companies for the services provided by the council , it would cost me far more than I am charged for them via my council tax. The service may not be as great as I would like it to be but is far better than having to pay a multitude of  private companies if the council did not operate the services they do.

Just the cost of a private education for one child is more than I would probably pay in council tax for my lifetime. My children have, so far, received a total of 28 years worth of education to date - not something I could have provided under any other system. And providing education is just one of the services we receive in exchange for our council tax - police force, roads, fire brigade, etc etc  all have to be funded somehow :)

I think I agree with you Harley.  Just having a tiddly, widdly bit of our private road resurfaced and sharing the cost between the 18 houses on it has recently reminded me how expensive these things are.  I'm sure there are variations in the quality of management of differing councils but the democratic system should be even it all out in time so I think by and large they do a pretty good job for their own little patch.

>the cost of a private education for one child is more than I would probably pay in council tax for my lifetime.

Certainly not just one child, surely? Without allowing for inflation, a lifetime's council tax for a 3-bedroom semi in this area would come to £96,000 (£1600 for 60 years). A decent private day-school is a tad less than £5000 a year, for 15 years maximum. That's a total of £75,000 (again ignoring inflation).

I have to admit I wish there was somewhere local to recycle plastic - yoghurt pots for example. Plastic milk bottles and squash bottles can be taken to the tip (the council won't collect those, nor cardboard) but there's nowhere for other plastic.

Certainly not just one child, surely? Without allowing for inflation, a lifetime's council tax for a 3-bedroom semi in this area would come to £96,000 (£1600 for 60 years). A decent private day-school is a tad less than £5000 a year, for 15 years maximum. That's a total of £75,000 (again ignoring inflation).

Local private school charges £7,000 a year (the cheapest one) and the most expensive one in this area is over £6000 per term in the secondary department http://www.kings-school.co.uk/document_1.aspx?id=1:31805&id=1:31643  so was going on an average of the two :)

I think that would be pretty cheap for a prep school JG and the price shoots up after that.
Our local tip still has "bottles only" on our plastics skip but in actual fact the numpties have not bothered to relabel and you can, infact, put all plastics in so might be worth asking next time you are down there.

Unfortunately ours specifies the type of plastic (PET etc) that can be put into each bag, and then clarifying for the chemically-ignorant (like me!) 'Milk bottles' and 'Squash bottles' (they didn't see the joke when I asked if that was an instruction! ;))

I don't think council tax funds schools - income tax does?

I don't think council tax funds schools - income tax does?

As I understand it councils get a grant from government for education but have to provide any shortfall of funds themselves. The shortfall is factored in when councils work out how much council tax needs to be collected in order to fund that year's budget.

Local councils, ie city councils etc, have to include a proportion of  council tax charge that is then paid over to the county council ( or equivalent) to cover costs of services that are administered on a county basis such as education, emergency services funding etc.

I hope none of us are using disposable plastic bags anymore even if you didn't get an Anya Hindmarsh one :) 
Asda and Sainsburys have had some very nice, very strong jute bags for about a pound brilliant for flinging in unwrapped fruit and veg.  This is how we shopped when I was little, one "dirty" bag that the grocer tipped the stuff in straight off the weighing scales and another "clean" bag for all the other stuff so I am loving the nostalgia of it all :)

I'd also like to see a return to reusable bags for shopping, I use the Jute bags.... but am getting fed up now of OH sneering each time we leave to go shopping..
"Have you got your 'Roy Cropper' bags then?"
:rolleyes:
Ive got the black M&S ones now as they are a little less 'Granny-fied' ;) (they are the Mary Poppins  bag of bags...bottomless..hold loads :) )

What about the original shopper with the wheels. I remember my mum using them :-) before she could drive though!!!

>What about the original shopper with the wheels

Nooooooo!  I remember my mum having one and she caught many an ankle with them and I'm sure still would if she had one.  She never allowed the extra width for the shopper so just ploughed past :rolleyes: Should have been called the ankle chopper rather than shopper.

My shopper on wheels is my car Not very green eh? but that's what's happened due to supermarkets being located outside of neighbourhoods.  Bring back the local butcher, greengrocer and fishmonger. 

Some of us still have no option but to shop with a trolley or carry heavy bags home.

Here you are, that should shut him up about Roy Cropper if you fork out for one of these :)
Actually, these bags make me wild.  How can anyone kid us that at these prices any of them will ever see a dirty potato :rolleyes:  They have just created more waste in themselves!  I'm sure Miss Hindmarsh's intentions were good but.............well no, she must have foreseen how it would pan out.  At least they raised the whole issue.

I have the folding ones that Sainsbury's and Morrison's do that fold and have snaps to keep them folded)prefer Morrison's as the bag has straight sides and Sainsbury's has a waist and I have torn the side of one).

I also have a plastic lifetime bag from Wilkinson's, and I use the bags from Ikea if I get a lift by car as can get most of my shopping in it by lining the shopping cart at the checkout.

I use the plastic carriers for my kitchen under sink bin and for poo pick up in the garden.

Can yu remember the net shopping bags made of plastic netting, and the nylon ones?

Those are what I got send out to buy things from the local shops with when I was about 8 or 10.

I've tried to stop using disposable plastic bags and bought lots of reusable ones for the shopping. But, I've run into the problem of what to put the reclycing in. I phoned the hotline yesterday to ask about it and was told that I had to separate everything into bags before putting stuff in the box. What kind of message is that, don't use the disposables but you have to in order to recycle or they won't take it away. I miss my last council where we had big wheelie bins.

That's madness!  The only thing they ask us to put in bags is textiles but even then I just lay them onto of the newspapers without a bag and they have never objected.  This would be another chat with a councillor I think :).
It's the poo gathering in the garden that I have had to rethink as I used to use supermarket bags for that.  I now use a small box lined with a couple of sheets of newspaper.  Shovel in the poo and then wrap it up like fish and chips :) before flinging into the wheelie bin.  Of course if they ever inspect my black bin and ask why I have not recycled those couple of sheets I shall just have to open up and show them :)

>I hope none of us are using disposable plastic bags anymore even if you didn't get an Anya Hindmarsh one

I did get an Anya Hindmarch one (at the original price of £5 - unlike some, I don't have more money than sense ) but I admit that it still has the tags on and hasn't yet seen the light of day :o  We use a couple of huge bags that I bought for £1 each in Ikea years ago.  One bag holds most of our weekly shop :)

When buying fruit/veg we never take plastic bags to put them in.  After all, the first thing you do when you get home is take them out of the bag again so what's the point?  However, it is infuriating when we get to the till and the checkout operator tries to put them in a bag then!!! We always ask him/her not to but are usually met with 'it's easier for me to weigh them if they're in a bag'.  Fair enough, I suppose, but you should see some of the filthy looks we've had when we subsequently remove the produce from the bag and hand it back ;) I'd be more than happy to ditch the excess packaging at the supermarket, in fact I think it's a great idea!

We have had fortnightly bin collections for several years now (general rubbish one week, recyclables and garden waste the next) and I can't believe the fuss that is being kicked up about it being introduced in other parts of the UK.  I can't see what the problem is at all

Here's one for the regular recyclers.  What do you do with shredded paper?  We have recently bought a shredder and have accumulated a bundle of the stuff but haven't got round to finding out how to dispose of it yet.  Do you put yours in the paper box at home, can see it all fluttering down the street when they take the lid off , or in the non recycle bin , or take it to the tip and ....whatever you do with it there?

Very good point about the shredded paper.  I usually put it in the rubbish because of the flying about problem but I have just emailed the question to my local council.  I'll let you know what they say when they reply.

Thanks Cheryl:)

Use it as bedding for small animals?

Received reply from my council re what to do with shredded paper:

>You can put it in the blue box, but you need to sandwich it between newspapers to weigh it down.

My shredder box is full so I will try that next collection and let you know what happens.

>You can put it in the blue box, but you need to sandwich it between newspapers to weigh it down.

Mmmmm I thought about doing that but they lift the paper out of the boxes to drop it into the scoop thing on the side of the lorry so I'm pretty sure it could fly everywhere unless they are very careful.  I'll see how you get on ;) but I think I might be better doing it myself at the recycling centre when I take my plastics.

What do you do with shredded paper?

Because we are provided with degradable plastic sacks we put shredded paper in them and it is taken away with normal recycling collection. We are free to put out as many recycling sacks as necessary - unlike those people who are given boxes to put their recycling in which only hold a certain amount which must surely limit the extent of their recycling?

We get a roll of sacks delivered every three months but can obtain more rolls free of charge from council offices or local tip.

>which must surely limit the extent of their recycling?

That's a good thing surely.  It is consumption that needs to be curtailed, recycling is good but it's not without any environment cost.

It is consumption that needs to be curtailed, recycling is good but it's not without any environment cost.

Totally agree - see my previous posts :) :)

But, until manufacturers cut down on the amount of packaging that they use recycling of all things recyclable is better than nothing :) And if it can be done without lots of individuals having to drive to the local tip to get rid of the recycling that exceeds their allotted bin space then it is even better :)

Well, at least the collectors won't have cause to complain as I have checked out the council's preferences.  The brown bin men knocked on my door one day and stood by while I removed some coninfer cuttings that prevented lid from being shut properly.  They insist the lid is properly closed or they won't empty it. The lid was raised about 3 inches :rolleyes:

The3y won't take any rubbish that won't fit in the black bins with lid closed, so ahve sometimes had to stock pile rubbish for another fortnight.

It goes in the compost bin. It's great for helping aerate the lawnmowings and helping them to rot down quicker. In the autumn it'll get dug into the garden. Nobody's going to be able to get our details from it by the time we've finished! :D

Ah! I gave up our compost heap when we got garden recycling because I am a rotten gardener and never used it.  Wonder if the council will allow it in the garden bins then?

We recycle and have had battles with the council as we had a spate where they stopped taking the stuff :rolleyes::rolleyes: Got that sorted but have since found out form a local Councillor that even though it goes in the recycle lorry about 80% of it ends up on the Land fill sites as they do not have the facilities to deal with most of the collected items :rolleyes::rolleyes:

>80% of it ends up on the Land fill sites as they do not have the facilities to deal with most of the collected items 

That's a very big problem nationally. It's all very well collecting all this stuff, but there's often nothing to do with it at the other end. Did anyone else see the TV documentary about a year ago, where they showed that containers-loads of our 'recycled' paper ended up in China? It was shipped halfway around the globe for processing. Not very green! :rolleyes:

Oops, you got there first, that'll teach me to read further down before replying. :D

M.

We're allowed to put small bags of shredded paper in with our paper/card recycling.

I believe shredded paper composts OK if you have a compost bin? Once we get the house sorted and start on the garden, I will get a compost bin or two and will probably stick it in there.

M.

Ah, the advantage of requiring us to bag ours. I put the shredded paper in a bag, tie it off and put it with the rest of the recycling.

I live near some recycling bins so take all recyclables across every other day but I do use supermarket carrier bags as I can't have a bin in the house because of the dogs so i just fill up a carrier everyday and put it in the wheelie bin. Any alternative suggestions?

Can't you keep a bin where ever it is you keep the carrier bag?  I do use bin liners though but it takes several days to fill.

My kitchen bin is specially designed to use carrier bags. When full they go into the council-supplied black binsack. I only put it out every fortnight because we only half-fill a binsack each week, so it would be wasteful to put it out half empty.