Hi
just wanted some advice, my pups are 18 days old and are on the move and starting to growl and play. They sleep most of the day.I understand by now that the mum likes to leave her pups for a while but she is driving me mad.The pups are upstairs in the spare room, door open for mum to roam upstairs as i have another dog downstairs. She comes to the stairs to tell me she wants to come down, for toilet break, pure nosiness and food,however she goes back up after and then wants to come down again 5 mins later for no real reason and this goes on mainly all afternoon and evening.I cannot leave the stairgate open as i dont want my other dog to go upstairs to the puppies.Also throughout the night she roams the upstairs while we are in bed, i am a very light sleeper and she wakes me to go out but she doesnt seem to know where to go to sleep, the puppies spread out in the 4 foot whelping box and she doesnt have much room. her bed is just outside the room if she wants to sleep in it but she doesnt settle well at night.Any Advice.

sounds like normal behaviour. by now my bitch would sleep in all her old places (sprawled on the floor) and only go in to pups to feed every few hours. they like to rejoin the family again. i wouldnt worry about the other dog. my bitch let our other bitch look at the pups and later play with them when outside. its only for the first week or so that she wouldnt want other dogs near.

I agree, My bitch is now very relaxed around the puppies now they are four weeks old, she even let the cat sleep with the pups last night. Dont worry, it does get better!

By this age I would have the pups and Mum in the kitchen.  she will not usually allow the other dogs to come into the puppy pen, but will be OK with them at a respectful distance and will gradually allow them to socialise.

Surely puppies should be downstairs by now - getting used to different noises and activities from people around them.  It's far easier then to keep an eye on them and mum.  I would also take the opprotunity of getting my puppies outside for a bit of fesh air in this beautiful weather we're having, if the puppies are thriving. 

Exactly, your home is not set up correctly for puppies and your bitch, it's something you need to consider when breeding, the way you have things now is going to be extremely difficult for all concerned, especially as the pups get bigger and need more socialising.

As the others say, it's time for your bitch and litter to become integrated into the rest of the household, to get used to all the household noises and comings and goings to ensure adequate socialisation.

None of my bitches would have been happy with the environment that you have described.  I think that you are expecting too much from your bitch and you are contributing too little for her to be content and rear her litter in these circumstances. :(

I must admit you have all baffled me a little.Yes i agree I am new to breeding (everyone has to start somewhere) but I thought that the best and quiet place for my mother to whelp was upstairs in the spare room.I have a small house with only one living room and a small kitchen nowhere near big enough for a whelping box.My bitch usually spends her time upstairs, most of the day sleeping, so i assumed that was where she would be most comfortable.
I also needed my 10 month old pup away from her as she was being protective over the pups with him.They have only just been re introduced in the last few days, i am unsure of him being around the pups.More advice needed there.
I have been given loads of conflicting advice, not from people on here but other breeders i know.My pup sleeps in a crate in the living room,so cannot put mum and pups in there.I have a garage leading into my garden and was going to transfer them into there in a week or so.I must admit that i thought that the pups were too young to be going into the garden at 19 days old despite the weather.
I dont understand how i am contributing too little, i am constantly on hand for her as i do not work, perhaps you could explain Val what you mean.I have been trying to keep everyone happy.

If your bitch isn't happy staying with them upstairs I doubt she'll be happy staying with them in the garage. You're going to have several weeks with the pups in the house getting acclimatised to the hoover, the washing machine, the TV, the phone, visitors coming and going, so it's important that you get something sorted before they get much more active. Does your garage have a door leading to your kitchen? That would work.

its not that she isnt happy staying with them upstairs, she spends most of her time up there during the day, there is no door from the garage to the kitchen.however the back door from the kitchen is only a couple of feet away from the door to the garage, which could be left open all day.As i said my main worry is the 10 month old pup being around the puppies.the house i live in is quite small so they can hear all the household noises and i have visitors to see the pups,mum still unsure of us handling them too much.there is a tv in the room with them and it is right next door to the bathroom etc...
the only place i could put them i suppose is under the stairs, right next to the kitchen and by the front room door.Oh its all a worry isnt it, I didnt worry as much about my kids when they were born.

We reared our litter upstairs and they grew up with all the noises......Just because they were upstairs didn't mean that they didn't get the room hoverd on a daily basis, radio was on with different channels, visitors came and went when old enough, I had many friends from school over just to get the pups used to different people.

Whats so bad with pups being upstairs?  Our bitch was very protective of her pups and she felt much happier upstairs :) 

It's very difficult carrying a whole litter of pups up and down stairs every time you're going to have them in the garden to get fresh air and play, which will be several times a day in a couple of weeks. Plus, of course, there's the problem of sodden flooring! ;)

throughout the night she roams the upstairs while we are in bed, i am a very light sleeper

She needs room to be near you and her puppies.  The whelping box in one room and her bed outside - of course she isn't going to settle - she's going to be up and down all night.  I sleep in the same room as my bitches with their pups are wouldn't expect to have a good night's sleep for at least 4 weeks, and you are complaining after only 18 days! :(

As your bitch leaves the pups for longer, then you need to spend even more time with them, socialising them to normal household noises and experiences.  A 10 month old male puppy around, when you only have one room, is far from ideal. :(  He needs a lot of your time at that age and a litter is a full time job if your are going to rear the pups properly so that they grow into well adjusted pups, suitable as familiy pets I assume?

I was going to reply to your post Val but I cannot be bothered to spend the time justifying myself to you. I have come to realise that this website has some very self righteous people who only seem to want to criticise what other less informed people are doing.I have read similar sort of posts where people have been criticised when they are only asking for help.
As i said everyone has to start somewhere and despite the size of my house I am doing eveything in my power to make my bitch and her puppies as comfortable and as happy as I possibly can, hence why i wanted some positive advice, and not the negative I seem to be getting from some people.

As i said everyone has to start somewhere and despite the size of my house I am doing eveything in my power to make my bitch and her puppies as comfortable and as happy as I possibly can,

But most people wouldn't start breeding unless all the circumstances were right, and that very much includes having the space.

Where is it written that you have to have a certain amount of space to raise a litter of puppies, surely the love and attention that is given to mum and pups is paramount, my litter is in no way being compromised.I thought that i had plenty of space , a spare room and a garage is plenty of space in my opinion.I just wanted some advice on my bitches behaviour, and thanks to those who have given it in a friendly manner.
I will continue doing my best, my pups are lovely and healthy and thriving.Not everyone breeds pups in such a professional capacity, and that does not make them bad or irresponsible people.

Where is it written that you have to have a certain amount of space to raise a litter of puppies, surely the love and attention that is given to mum and pups is paramount, my litter is in no way being compromised.

You might change your mind once mum stops cleaning up after them and you have all the poo clearing to do yourself. Space matters a lot then. :D

>then wants to come down again 5 mins later for no real reason

The reason is that she wants you near her, as well as to be near her pups. If you can't bring the pups near where you are, then you're going to have to stay nearer them. This is why I asked if your garage opened into your kitchen, so that a barrier across the door would keep the active pups confined and safe yet allow the bitch access to them and you. As for settling at night - have you tried putting her bed just beside the whelping box?

Jeangenie, yes i have put her bed next to her whelping box and she settles a bit more now, thanks.
thanks ice queen, thats the sort of advice that makes me feel i am not doing all wrong.

Where is it written that you have to have a certain amount of space to raise a litter of puppies,
sorry, wanted to stay constructive but this would be my first consideration and obvious to anyone! where will you keep them so you can let them in and out of the garden? my pups were in and out of the garden from 4 weeks and almost house trained when they left.

my garage leads straight onto my patio, some of which is actually in the garage,I thought that this would be ideal for them to learn to use the garden for toileting, I have a totally enclosed garden and a walled off grassed area also, so they would have best of both worlds.I dont mind constructive critisism :)

When we had our litter we kept them in the spare room.  The utility room wasn't finished, the kitchin, no way were we having pups in there it would mean blocking off access to cuboards, we wanted to cook in there and don't want to be cooking hot stuff with puppies close by...!  The living room wasn't big enough plus the spare room was next door to my parents room and across the hall from the study so when the pups got to 4-6 weeks my dad could work from home and look after pups by watching them at all times!

Since when does everyone have to have a large house to breed a litter?

Btw our pups were very clean in the house when they left.  I wouldn't say housetrained as still had accidents.  We also had 3 pups untill 15 weeks (one was being kept with us untill new owners returned from their holiday and we were keeping two ourselves for the showring)

>Since when does everyone have to have a large house to breed a litter?

A large house is immaterial - suitable space is vital. :( 'Suitable' means a waterproof, moppable floor, free access for the bitch, space for the puppies to move around freely inside and outside, and, if breeding puppies that are intended to be house dogs, full acclimatisation to normal household activity before they go to their new homes. Obviously stairs are to be avoided for young puppies because of the danger of both falling and damage to joints, so ground floor facilities are a must. :)

Bettyboo's garage and patio (when suitably fenced for safety) sound fine for when the pups are a little older (now's the time to get it all ready, puppy-proofed etc!). It's just at the moment, with the pups a little too young to be in an unheated building, yet with the mother needing to be close to both litter and owner, that the problems are arising.

Never had a problem carrying pups to be perfectly honest.  Easy enough.  Mopable floor was the lino but also pups were exposed to carpet (well got to get them used to different flooring!)  The tiles in the kitchin where too slippery for a puppy really and the best thing about our spare room?  It was due for redecoration so pups could go on carpet knowing it wouldn't be there much longer after the pups had all gone to their new homes.

Normal noises are taken upstairs, infact more normal noise upstairs due to myself and my brother still being young and still playing games as kids do!

TV, radio, hoover all exsisted upstairs.  Door knocker can be heard anywhere in the house, spare room was at the pack of the house so garden noises where heard from neighbours but also traffic can be heard from the main road from the front of the house and side road next to the house.

Please, what noises can't a litter hear upstairs but can downstairs?

Benifit being with doors an windows closed a young litter can be shut away from noise and be let sleep.  How does that work in a living room unless you stop all guests?

Also ment that when future owners came the saw mother and our other dog downstairs first to see the adults of the breed before seeing cute puppies which steal everyones hearts :)

Going up and downstairs carrying 8+ puppies several times a day isn't something I'd want to do too often! ;) The fact is that most daytime household activity happens in the kitchen or living room/s, not in the bedroom, and the activity - not just the noise of the activity (and Bettyboo has previously said she has a very quiet house) - is very important. I certainly wouldn't keep a litter in the living room full time, for hygeine reasons if nothing else, but I'd want them close by. And obviously Bettyboo's bitch also wants her litter to be close to her owner.

Well this is more like it!!!!  We seem to be having more balanced points of view now, thank goodness. Yes i agree with a few of you, all the noise in my house can be heard equally upstairs as downstairs, benefits of a small house!!!I have just been up with the puppies and i must admit i wouldnt put he puppies in the garden at this age, they sleep most of the day still and its not that warm, and they can only just walk and they fall over quite a lot and i wouldnt want them to hurt themselves.When i put them into the garage i will purchase an infra red lamp, they are not much more than £20.
I only have 5 pups so carrying them wouldnt be a problem.I have also been looking at puppy pens for the spare room which can be brought down to the garden also.

I know you can't say what breed you have (TOS) but my medium-sized breed (dalmatians) can only safely be carried one at a time from about 5 weeks - they're heavy and wriggly! I certainly wouldn't want to risk carrying them on the stairs if it could be avoided. :)

I am in exactly the same situation in having nowhere suitable for puppies downstairs. 

I could easily whelp my bitch as we have a spare bedroom.  But what do you do when they're three weeks old and, IMO, should be brought downstairs?  I don't even have anywhere outside, or even semi-outside!, to house them. 

I went through all the trouble of bringing a bitch in from Sweden to contribute to the gene pool in the UK and have now realised there's no way I can have a litter AND be able to do the pups and bitch justice.  I thought we'd be somewhere different by now but we've decided not to move so that puts the whole breeding idea out of the window.  It's a shame (especially as my bitch is a good example of her breed and is well on her way to her title) but the logistics of having a litter and rearing them in the best possible way are just going against it.

Debs

I'm sorry that you have nowhere to raise a litter.  But, in my opinion, you have made the right decision and how enlighteneing it is to read posts on here from sensible people who are not too opionated!.  We are all much more aware these days of what to look for when purchasing a puppy.  If you are unable to provide them with the right environment at the start of their lives,  I think you should leave the breeding to others.  I know it's a hard decision, but then so are a lot of things in life these days.