My friend called me yesterday to tell me her mom's 10yr old lashapso (sp) was killed... guess it could kinda poke its muzzle through the fence and the neighbours dog which they just got- the other one never cared just barked alot- anyhow this dog grabbed ahold of their dogs snout and would not let go- mean while the only owner that was home was a 10yr girl (how sad) she was trying to pull her big dog off to let go and my friends mom was hitting the big dog with a bar and he still wouldn't let go- he pulled their lil dog through the fence of course ripping the lil one apart- got the head through... The humane society said that the dog had an intent to kill or else he would have let go- the big dog still shook and didn't drop the lil one for about 10 min- the big dog is now pts at no charge but yet the humane society is gonna charge to dispose of the lil one's body- how fair is that? You would think that charge should be put on the owner of the big dog- May seem mean but Iam happy he kept his rage on the lil dog and did not turn on the 10yr cause that could have been her- just scary all the way around- makes me think what happened if he did let the lil one go and the only other thing their was the child cause he was pi**ed he couldn't get the lil dog- just scary- couldn't even imagine how devestating that would have been for both families involved...  this dog on other occasions have nipped my friends dogs nose- they had 2 lil dogs the lashapso and jackrussle- Should have did something to the fence cause they could kinda nip eachother- but also I think in reality too since that big dog wanted to get to the lil ones anyhow he eventually would have just jumped the fence cause the fence is not that tall- I think they should have had him chained up or muzzled... Just very devestating all the way around... :(

Oh that really is tragic. That poor child to have witnessed that must have been shocking for her.

Very, very sad and absolutely awful -but I have to say the owner of the Lhasa should have made sure the fence was 100 % secure as hers was the smaller dog that could have got through it. You can't really blame a dog for attacking a dog that is in its eyes intruding onto its territory. Obviously it's horrendous that the big dog wanted to and did kill, and NOT acceptable, but that a dog hates other dogs doesn't have to mean it's in any way dangerous to humans. I have two small dogs and we had a dog next door before we moved and we always made sure there weren't even tiny holes as our Papillon is small enough to get through almost anything, so we considered it our responsibility to ensure he could NOT get out -not the neighbours whose slightly bigger dog could not escape through as small holes.

Its very sad :( but i do tend to agree with goldmali and you did state they had been nipping each other which to be honest we have a neighbour who has a pain in the backside of a dog that constantly barks at mine and runs up and down the fence , the problem we have is that they are on higher ground than us so this lab looks down on mine without any fear of reprisal... It really doesnt bear thinking about what our old girl would do if she got hold of it, i have repeatedly told the owner to not allow his dog to terrorise mine as i really am concerned of the outcome if by chance mine are outside one day loose (like when i put them in the van), but hes of the opinion his dog is doing no harm :rolleyes::rolleyes: i just have to counteract this by bringing mine in when hes at home... :(

I know what you mean Mygirl we,ve got a really tricky situation at the moment .
My GSDs play out at the back and side of our house always under supervision from myself or my hubby and my dogs have done this for the last nineteen years until a a month ago my neighbour who has lived here as long as we have decided to buy a dachshund minature one at that. Now they are being really hard work and have siad they don,t want my dogs out our back at all even though they are behind a metal farm gate and on my own land.
Unfortunately these  neighbours have access up the side of my house to their garage so its really hard my dogs have been confined to a small yard for play up to now and don,t understand the change in their routine at all.
These dogs have grown up knowing everyone next door never been a problem in any way whatsoever with them in fact the children have grown up with them and have helped with grooming etc .
I feel like I,m beeing dictated to but for peace sake I,ve put up with it so far  like Goldmail I would have taken it on myself to ensure my small dog was safe, in this case it wouldn,t be hard as they have a front garden where the little doig could play without my dogs ever even seeing it.
They have taken every opportunity to leave my gates open and now use the garage to put the car in and out of when its never been used for all the time we have lived here some days they come in and out up to fifteen times and that is no exageration previously the car has always been parked up on the front street.
I,ve cried many tears over this and had lots of sleepless nights now I,m just totally fed up my girls have to wear a lead even to go for a wee on my own land the only thing is their house is for sale and I just hope and pray it sells soon.
Sorry for rambling
Sharon.

The dog couldn't fit through the fence only it's muzzle from what I get- the big dogs were always barking at the lil one's- they just put em out to do their duty so to speak and I guess both dogs ran to the fence or something (the lil one and the big one) and the big one got ahold of the lil one's face and basically just ripped his head through the lil holes in the fence (ur basic wooden type fence)- they said it happened so fast- iam not sure totally of what all happened ect since it was my friend telling me and her mom was just devestated...

I believe they are both to blame on both parts- it could have been prevented- :( You just never know and don't think something like that would happen...

I have dogs next door and both I an my neighbour do not allow them to fence fight.  The fence is solid all the way down with no gaps because we both have dogs. 

Mine are taught to ignore the Russells next door who when they were pups would run to fence and try and get a reaction out of my then adults.

when I have had pups I have never allowed them to go right to the fence to investigate the dogs next door.

I am sure if we both didn't do this then  eventually the fence would degrade because of being jumped, pushed, clawed or chewed at.

It is only the same as teaching your dogs to ignore goings on in your neighbours gardens.  My garden is just 25 feet wide and next door have barbecues, kids playing etc, and the dogs learn to ignore all this.  The don't ignore a suspicious noise at night though.

I agree with you, good fences make good neighbours and this was a forseeable incident which could have been avoided.  If you care about your dogs you make sure that dogs cannot escape, go through, over, be interfered with or interfere with anything or anyone else.

Dogs can be trained to behave in the garden and not be allowed to run the fences etc.

Tohme have you got any suggestions on how to train dogs not to bark in the garden at neighbours? We only have one neighbour now and he's not very close, but when the dogs see him (usually about 100 metres away or so) cutting his grass etc they do bark and I don't want that to continue. The trouble is, they do NOT bark if I am outside with them so I can't reward them for seeing him and being quiet as they associate me being there with no need to bark at anything. Any suggestions on how to stop it?

Yes, my Dobe is the same as this. He turned 3 a few weeks ago and STILL barks at the neighbours along the fence even though he sees them face to face pretty much every day and knows who they are! :rolleyes: Very embarrassing as their Retriever is completely silent for the most part.

I find it helps to bring the dog indoors again as soon as he starts barking at the fence. It's difficult for them to grasp that you do want them to bark at intruders but not at the neighbours!

Tara is gradually getting used to our new neighbours in Norfolk and responds well to distraction techniques like 'go and get your ball' :D :D However, she is an angel compared to one neighbour's Fell Hound, so I am confident that the other neighbours won't be bothered by her :D :D :D

Daisy

Must admit I don't find that makes any difference JG. After all I spent 4 years in the old place bringing them indoors for every single little woof. :)

have you got any suggestions on how to train dogs not to bark in the garden at neighbours? We only have one

You can train your dog as you would a pup, with praise and reward it will be harder as I guess your dog is a full grown adult now but not impossible.

Use your command quiet or shush when barking in the home at the front door for instance and reward immediately with a treat or big fuss and good dog! You have to start in the home for them to get the gist of it, then once shush and quiet are understood and 100% inside the home you can then move the command to outside.  Training a pup is easy and they pick it up very quickly so it may take a few weeks with an adult if persistant.

With this command a dog knows it is still allowed to bark re: burglars etc, but knows if and when it has to stop too.

Of course to just bring this dog straight inside when he/she barks at the neighbour is the quickest solution, but as already said the dog does not understand why??? But it keeps the neighbourhood quiet and is a quick fix, trainining the command is a much longer process but once your dog catches on it is there for life. :-)

Oh they DO know to stop barking if told and do, it's more a case of me not wanting them to START, because I want to be able to not have to rush to them all the time. Ideally I want to be able to leave them outside and knowing they won't start barking if they see the neighbour (after all, there are 7 of the big ones) if we say go out shopping. I'd always planned/hoped to be able to leave them outside with a kennel for shelter if we went out.

it's more a case of me not wanting them to START,

Oh bless you, :-P THAT!! I can't help with, infact I don't think it is even possible, (It's like telling a female not to talk :-D )

The only slight chance you may have is if the neighbour were to become a really, really good friend to the dog/dogs in which case just as they see us they don't feel the need to bark. Could you encourage the neighbour to give your barker there a treat and really get to know him.

In a garden as you know dogs are guarding their territory and when one starts they all start, if familiarising the neighbour is not an option yet as I know you have not been there long, I'm afraid your just going to have to keep running out to tell the instigator to be quiet, it's good exercise. :-)

Dogs are always worse at barking when were out too, I'd work on the friendly neighbour thing if you can, so that he/she feels no need to bark a warning.

Nope never leave mine outside when I go out or anywghere they can see out, always somewehre where they will hear and see as little of the outside world as possible.

My breed are known for their bark, so it is important to never let them become barky.  they feel they ahve to inform you of anything of interest.

Thanking them and asking for quiet I find is the best.

With neighbours I ahve always apart from sending indoors acknowledged what it was they were showing me by barking, and then praising and telling them OK enough, it is just Neville (one of the neighbourss), or whoever.  they don't react at all if there is plenty going on like one of theri family get together's in the garden at all.

The other side it is just two men who don't use the garden much, and they do prick their ears up for them more and I do have to say it is OK, I know, and then they are quiet again.

Don't know if this will help you Marianne, but I tell mine to "be quiet" BEFORE they go out the door.  Works quite well.  I also let the trouble maker (Stormy Mal) out first.

Sarah.

What I do with mine after having this problem with my first dog (a BSD Groen. who got really OTT with excitement) was get them inside at the first bark each and every time.

It does mean no unsupervised Garden access, and I also restricted the area the dogs had so that it was easy to make them comply with coming indoors.

Now I always have the back door open and only need to say the dogs name after one bark and they quiet right away.  This can be from an upstairs window or from inside now, as they know they can be hiked indoors at the drop of a hat.

Barbara, I moved in June last year and my dogs would be always barking at my neighbours.
Nearly a year later they hardly bark at them :) :)
Just giver them time to get used to the people around and I would say they will settle down!!!!!
But you know ALOT more about dogs than I do LOL
Lea :)

Extremely sad to hear this, it is a terrible tragedy, the poor dog and the poor owner. I would run some chicken wire alongside the wooden fence, I know it is a bit after the horse has bolted but at least the other dog will never have anything happen to it this way.

Why was a 10 year old child home alone anyway the legal age is 14??? Perhaps if an adult had been home they could have grabbed the dogs collar, and the dog may have listened to a drop command, though to be honest the poor Lasha was probably dead already or irreparably damaged.

As you say lucky the child was not hurt, the poor child will have that image for her lifetime too, she should never have been left alone. I hope the parents realise that too, even though too late for all involved.

My deepest condolences to your friends mother, I would be in pieces if my dog was attacked and killed.

Painful lessons learnt on both sides in the worst possible way. :-(

>Why was a 10 year old child home alone anyway the legal age is 14???

Dollface is in Canada. Besides, according to the NSPCC there is no law stating the minimum age at which a child can be left alone.

Never leave a baby or very young child alone at home, whether asleep or awake, even for a few minutes. It doesn't take long for unsupervised young children or babies to injure themselves.
Most children under 13 should not be left for more than a short period.
No child under 16 should be left overnight.



Gosh, JG what are the NSPCC playing at!!!

The above are guidelines not the law

They have always been the law to me and I've always ruled by them, I wonder if they are not legal rulings due to unforseen circumstances preventing prosecutions.

Social services would intervene if the above were happening and an accident occured, why on earth is it not law, I'm gobsmacked! (I'm still wearing my shocked face now.)

the NSPCC is a charity and not a legal org so they can only issue guidelines not rules.

I used to look after my younger brothers when parents went shopping and I was under 12. I am sure I did this from around 1973 so I would only have been 9, and looking after my 7 year old brother and a baby and a toddler. 

Certainly wouldn't leave a 9 year old with a baby for longer than the time I would be in the garden or close by.

At that age I was doing chores, hand washing of clothes etc, and I don't think it was unusual for older children in large families to have quite a lot of responsibilities when I was a child.

I ran errands, and certainly by the time most children were in Juniors they walked to school.

I can remember when I had my first son and my eldest brothers daughter was 11. She absolutely loved my son and of course was allowed to hold him and cuddle him, but one day whilst they were there I asked my sister-in-law if she would babysit the following week as we were invited to a Birthday meal, my sister-in-law wasn't free she had something on, but volunteered my neice, I love my neice to bits but no way would I leave her to care for my most precious possession, I felt really awkward as my neice was standing there and I didn't want to hurt her feelings, luckily my brother stepped in and told his wife off saving my blushes.

I was horrified at the thought of an 11 year old being left to babysit a baby late at night, even though I knew her very well, (and must admit I actually thought my sister-in-law was potty to suggest such a thing, mind you so did my brother) but I do agree that going back 30+ years it was probably quite normal and especially even further back in my grandmothers era, I just can't imagine ever doing it myself or letting a junior walk to school  alone now.

Have we gone really soft, it seemed normal in those days???

When I think about it, I get the shudders....but when we first married, and bought our first house, we lived in a close of 14 houses - we all moved in within 2 months of each other, and we all got on extremely well, and at first we would take our own chairs or cushions to each others' houses, if there weren't enough chairs to sit on - we'd share meals and chores and generally have a stonking good time.

By the time we'd been there about three years, we all had at least one baby each, and we would babysit for each other - but there would be occasions when we'd have a party at one house or another.   The tiny babies were fine - they would come too and there would be half a dozen carrycots in one of the bedrooms.   The slightly bigger babies/toddlers were more of a problem - but we'd wait until they were asleep, and sneak out - with one or more parents patrolling the close every 20 minutes or so !

I wouldn't dream of suggesting it now - I'm only too aware of what could have happened - but in those seemingly innocent days, nothing seemed to!

Margot

They used to start work at 14 too

Poor dogs.
Run free both of you.
Lea