I must confess to never really paying much attention to handling classes when I was showing but now my 14 year old niece wants to show my borzois. I've explained to her she can't, both are neutered and although technically allowed, we all know they wouldn't do as well as they would if they had all their bits. As puppies both done very well with a BPIB each at champ show, both have their stud book numbers and one a RCC. So they're decent enough dogs, but being neutered has changed their coats. One has a very sparse coat now, and the others coat is all wool - that I've chopped bits out of :D

Ok, so the question is, can someone (my niece) enter junior handling with a dog that isn't entered in any other classes? And is it possible to do well with a dog that wouldn't do well in breed judging? Is it really just the handling that is being judged?

Whether she can use any dog regardless if it is entered on not depends on the show and the type of handling class it is (YKC or JHA) this is normally written in the show shedule rules and regs or as a subtext next to the class number.

Is it possible to do as well - if the judge is a proper handling judge the quality of the dog shouldnt matter at all, the problem arises when shows use general all-rounder judges.

The dog does have to be entered in and exhibited in a class at the show other than JHA though.

My daughter handles one of our dogs in JH, but have always found that the dog has to also be entered in a breed class, whether at Open or Champ shows.  In JH, I would expect the judge to just be judging the handling, and a good example is that at her JH class at Crufts, there was a girl entered with a Crossbreed.
If it's a YKC Stakes class at a Champ show, then sometimes they can just enter that and nothing else (this class is judged on the dog though).

Thanks for that folks, looks like she's had it then :(  I wouldn't enter them in any breed class. She is in the YKC but as you say that is judged on the dog. I wonder how the girl with the crossbreed qualified - what other class could it have been entered and exhibited in?

You could enter them in Veteran without going in a breed class.

The girl witha  crossbreed would have qualified in YKC classes held at YKC events thoughout teh year.  I think the YKC camp now does qualifying classes aswell as their weekends thoughout the country over the year.

Also at discover dogs the YKC holds crossbreed qualifying classes in handling.

However if she wants to do the handling at normal shows then the dog will have to be enterd into a previous class and exhibited in that class.

So she could handle at YKC events but not at normal shows.

Saying that is there anyone local you know will be happy for her to use their dogs as a handling dog?

One of my friends only has a crossbreed but she started of handling our setters and aussies and one of the lady's at our ringcraft gave Nessie a puppy to train and they got on so well she handles him in handling and also the breed (won his class at crufts!) She handles her crossbreed at companion shows and the crossbreed handling class at discover dogs.

At a champ show last summer i had 2 dogs with me, 1 entered in breed and the other entered 'not for competition'. My breed dog went lame so i went to see the secretary to see if i could use my nfc dog. After asking many people from different areas of the show management it was agreed that i was allowed to use her as under the definition she was actually 'entered'

This may be a way to get around actually exhibiting in a breed class (may be cheaper to do at an open show than a champ show mind!)

I think the wording of the rule is entered and exhibited?????

Some open shows have the handling on before the breed starts so it would be hard to enforce the 'exhibited' part. I entered one recently where I was wondering about stewarding and they said to enter the breed and handling, do the handling, then just withdraw from the breed and steward instead. Either they were wrong or the rule is entered only. :-)

Lucy rules are bent all the time don't forget!!! LOL

I know one girl used to go to a show where handling was first thing, do the handling then leave and go off to another show to do another handling class on the same day :(

Hi Rox!  Just wondering if you've heard of this one - when I phoned a show secretary recently re a Champ show, she said if the breed class wasn't gone in, then the handling award in JH (if a place was awarded that is!), could be taken away.  Do you think this is right?  And looking at the next Champ show we will be at, I'm pretty positive that the handling & ykc stakes will clash with breed anyway!
Hilda

I'm sure the dog must be enterd and exhibited in another class for it to be taken into handling so therefore if I dog doesn't go into it's breed/stakes/variety class then is handled in handling the award can be taken away, especally if someone complains :)

So what is one supposed to do if the breed class is on at the same time as the JH class?! 

Tell the stewards of each ring and hopefully  they will hold the handling class for you however they don't have to.

Offcially yo would have to forfit handling but unless someone complains I doubt the KC would do anything.  I've never heard of it being done before.

It's the same rules as if say you enterd breed class and AV pastoral...you could only go into AV pastoral if you exhibited in your breed class aswell :)

Hi Rox, yes I know about the AV and breed, that you would do the breed.  Only with JH and YKC stakes, we've entered them specifically for Catrin to be able to do these classes for young handlers - anyway, will see what happens on the day!

I know but the same rule applies :(  such a shame because alot of the time it's more important to the juniors to be in the handling rather then the dog to be in the breed.

But then again rules are only guidelines!!! ;)

Rules are not guidelines they are rules.

I think that's what Icequeen's wink is for! :-D