hi all

We have just returned from a weeks holiday on the lovely Isle of Arran. This is the boy's holiday!! - well OK we enjoy it too - but they get to run free on the beach, swim in the sea, run in open fileds - you get the picture:D. Well we have some problems with my older boy Jasper and we just don't know what to do for the best - but I am so worried that he is not happy:(

I'll try and give you some of the details - sorry if it sounds garbled - but we are at the end of our tether with him. For those that don't know, Jasper is a Cocker(English variety:)) just two years old and we love him to bits. He was my first boy that was all mine and so is very very special to me. He has a pal, Buddy of 15 months, also an English Cocker. Jasper has always been more lively and a bit hyperactive Buddy is more relaxed and laid back. Jasper has always been very jealous of Buddy getting any attention from me but usually lets some of it go without trying to push in a get Buddy out of the way. He is lively in the car but used to travel very well. He always jumped as soon as the car stopped, barking and whining and pulling to get out. Now he is having trouble settling at all - he is always looking for me and panting heavily, and making those pathetic squeaky noise with each outward breath. Buddy settles down and generally waits patiently. Jasper barks at anyone who walks by, Buddy will copy but if on his own stays quiet.

On holiday Jasper has been so much worse. Each time Buddy got up - Jasper shot straight to me to push him out of the way. Each time Buddy laid down to rest or shut his eyes, Jasper was on him - mounting for dominance. When playing, Jasper likes to chase a ball - Buddy prefers something running in the opposite direction with four legs!! but Jasper will try and tease Buddy into playing too - but Buddy is not interested - however Buddy is greedy and will pinch all toys, bones etc and guard them strongly. Neither will come on recall if something else has taken their fancy:rolleyes:

This last week, Jasper was so stressed in the car and anywhere we went where he was unfamiliar. We have even talked about getting him tranquilisers for when he is in the car. He is always always looking for me and can't bear it if I'm out of his sight at all, whereas Buddy will look up to see me going but go back to sleep again. Jasper pulls on the lead like a train all the time virtually, everytime - and he had been trained to walk to heel etc. I've tried head collars and he just gets so upset. I have recently taken the decision to retire him from showing for a while as he was just getting so distressed and that is really the best way I can describe his general demeanour at the moment - stressed.

He is fed on Nutro primarily but is a fussy eater so gets it mixed with some home cooked meat and veg or rice, pasta etc.

We are so worried that he is not happy - he is clearly not content and I know it is a dominance battle going on but unless he calms down iin someway soon - he's going to drive us to distraction. The main thing that upset us on holiday was hacing to apoligise for his behaviour almost all the time. Nice people wanted to come and say hello - he just barks straight at them - which I do not mind - but won't stop which I do mind, when told. He is a lovely boy with a lovely nature - would never bite anyone - but the look on peoples faces is often so sad. Many poeple were nice about it but I don't think it's acceptable at all.

Ideas please? Sorry for the ramble - off to get the tissues now:(

Pam n the boys

BTW - meant to add - I have a Masterplus collar that has worked to a degree - he knows when it's on and when it's not!!!!!! When it's on he is so depressed but when not on - he is his old self. It has helped curb his barking in the car to a small degree but not his pulling. I don;t want to trigger the spray when he barks at people though as I do want him to bark first but stop when told. Hope that makes sense - or am I expecting too much?

Hi Pammy, have you got the dogs loose in the car, or are they in a cage? I have a cage for mine with toys in and a clip on water bowl in case they get thirsty, I know he is not being sick in the car, but I would try a sea legs tablet about half an hour before you take him in the car, this could calm him down a bit, it also sounds as if he is scared that you are going away to leave him, i.e. a bit of separation anxiety, when you are going out, how does he behave, do you tell them to "be good boys" or do you ignore them, I ignore my dogs when I am going out and also when I come back in, don't make eye contact with either of them, take off your jacket, go in the kitchen put the kettle on and then go into your living room, sit down and then call the dogs to you, they will soon learn, I also give mine a kong filled with goodies when I go out, I just need to lift the kong and mine run to their cages, I still shut Cookie in his cage, but Midgets is left with the door open now. Just read your post again, when you are out and he gets hyper, tell him to sit beside you and give him a titbit and lots of praise also tell him quiet. start by taking the dogs out separetely, not together, and see if this helps. what kind of leash have you got, don't use one of the ones that can go for miles cant remember what they are called LOL just use your show lead its easier to work with. Go back to training classes, dont take him on the mats etc just get him to sit quietly by your side, again with the help of titbits, it will take a bit of time, but give him a chance, he is acting like a typical teenager!!!! he has to learn that you are the boss not him.

Thanks for your reply Irene. I used to crate them in the car but now they are either fastened in the back or Jasper is by my feet. We can't use a crate on a daily basis in the new car - but can tie them using chain and triggers to fixing points behind the back seats. I do have a crate in the house for night-time or when I need to shut them safely out of the way - again - they love the crate and will put themselves in there if they want to. Jasper will take himslef to bed if he is tired and it is late!!

When I leave the house - Jasper is fine - no problems there at all. It's only when we are out. Like you - I don't make a big thing of leaving. Just go out. He knows though and goes and sits beautifully at the bottom of the stairs and is waiting patiently there when I get home. Buddy goes in the kitchen as together they get into mischeif

I don't use a flexi lead as I think it jerks them to much when it reaches its end and they are running - doesn;t do much for my arms and shoulders either:rolleyes:I use a webbing lead that you can have as short - 3 feet or long to 6 feet. When in public it is kept very short. If in a more open space I will let it out to the full length.

I have thought about taking him back to training. As it happens it is a friend that runs them and I was going to see about going again with just Jasper.

Funny thing I should have mentioned before - my best friend has Jasper's sister and she is very very similar in her stress and behaviour. She is a wee thing though so easier to control nevertheless, her barking at strangers is becoming a real problem too, so much so that my friend os worried she might actually nip someone if they try to approach her. I do not have this fear of Jasper.

It would be a big help if I could find something to motivate him as food and titbots don;t work. He is so stressed he just won;t take them.

aaaargh!!

Pam n the boys - and guess where J is - asleep by my feet - Buddy is in the garden

Pam, if he were mine I would take him to the vet for a check up and if all is OK ask the vet for a (Tardak) may well be spelt wrong, injection. I will reduce his male hormones for a short while and you will be able to see if that is the problem. At a distance it is difficult to know if he considers you as top dog, and is therefore dependent on you or if he considers you as his (bitch) and spends his time worrying that the other dog may claim you. If it is the second the injection will help and you will know how to proceed, if it makes no difference then perhaps the first is true and will have to be dealt with by teaching him more independence. Ja:)kie

Hi Pam

I agree with Jackie -I would get Jasper checked out by the vet just in case there is a physical cause to his problems & maybe investigate whether his male hormones may be contributing to his behaviour, though I have seen bitches behave like this too. I think going back to basics with him would also be a good idea ie training classes on his own. One other suggestion would be to try something like skullcap & valerian (herbal calm-down remedy) which might help relax him while you are tackling the behaviour with some re-training. Dorwest Herbs also do a liquid Valerian which is quite effective at calming down & relaxing a dog though you have to use it for some time before you see results. From what you say, I would be inclined to say that much of Jasper's behaviour is fear-related - the barking at people he doesn't know, anxiety in the car etc though as we know, it's very difficult to diagnose behavioural problems without knowing the dog, but that would be my guess.

Jane

Thanks for the suggestions Jane and Jackie - I have tried valerian in the past with no effect - also the same for Rescue Remedy. I will try the vets though, I think that could give us some thoughts about his hormones. I have already started going back to basics with him, but have one worry, am I likely to compound the problem if I take Jasper on one to ones? By that I mean will he become even more attached to me and try to push Buddy out even more?

I am fairly sure that his reactions to people is fear related. I try getting people to give him a treat - but he is too excited to be interested.

Thanks for your time chaps - very much appreciated.

Pam n the boys

Hello Pam,

It is my opinion that you have unfortunately spoilt him with too much love and attention. His status has been raised above you, and he now considers he is 'in charge'. A position he clearly is not happy with, very few dogs are. When a dog KNOWS he has someone who can lead with authority and has firm control of the dog's behaviour, that dog can RELAX, he is not 'forced' to have to make leadership decisions, or be concerned with matters that are beyond him!

The barking at people who he meets - (I presume he has no reason to feel afraid - hence not 'fear related')? The barking is him demanding their recognition of HIS CONSIDERED IMPORTANCE!! - "Me, me, me"!!!

He cannot relax because you have inadvertly put him in a leadership role, that he cannot handle! He is constantly aware of everything and everyone. He feels he must keep control of you - (the weaker member)! Pulling on the lead, is the dog not even acknowledging you are there! - (You can just sadly tag on behind)!

You compound areas of his behaviour by even 'rewarding' with treats!

He does love you, but does not respect you!

Join a training club again, but go and view a couple first. You need a Trainer who can help put you back in the 'drivers seat'.

Regards,
Denise.

Hi Pammy,
I think the master plus with either citrus or mustard extract sprays should be off the market untill such times as they have done proper tests to conclusivly state the liquids will not harm the dogs eyes when some of it inevitably goes into them, there should also be warnings that some dogs might have a skin allergy to the sprays, does it warn against that?

He should not know the collar is on or has anything to do with the spray, did the instructions say to use it first day or equivilent?

Hi Pammy,
Sorry I cam't really offer any advice that hasn't already been suggested, but I just wanted to say that sometimes if you can just detatch yourself things often become clearer to you. I know you have given some very helpful advice and suggestions to others on this board in the past and I'm sure you'll get it sorted! Keep smiling....Good Luck!
Jackie

Thanks Jackie and everyone else for the support.

I am taking a back seat as much as I can with the boys - especially Jasper at the present time. He is confused but will get over it:D. Things have largely settled back to normal at home so we'll just have to keep taking Jasper to new situations and build up his confidence. Hubby and daughter took them out for a walk on Sunday and apparently they were both very well behaved, the dogs that is not the humans;) lol

We have a fairly major family problem at the mo which is going to put the dogs in an awkward position at times. Last night for example, we had to go 125 miles to my inlaws - my father in law has just been diagnosed with secondary cancer so we had to see the oncology consultant today. My parents came up to be with the kids and dogs. The dogs dealt with that fine. Times like this are going to increas over the coming weeks/months. They may have to go into kennels fairly often - so all that "should" help expose Jasper to new things but show him that I will always come back. That's the theory anyway. I'm hoping it will increase his confidence a little at least. Of course - it could go the other way but time will tell.

Thanks again for the support everyone - and if I'm quiet on the board for a while or at odd times - you'll know why.

love

Pam n the boys - who are currenlty playing the I can "yap" louder than you game:D

Pam,
Sorry to hear about you father-in-law. My Dad has prostate cancer and secondary bone cancer so I know what you must be going through.
Keep your chin up.
Dot

Dot - what a testing time for you it must be. ((((hugs))))
Sara

Thank you all for your good wishes. Dot, my thoughts are with you too.

We don't know how long we have to go through this yet could be up to a couple of years or less. Only time will tell and I'm sure it will be very up and down. The doctors do not know where the primary is and they don't think they'll ever know. All we can do is hope that the treatment eases his pain and makes what time he does have left more comfortable.

Thanks for caring.

love

Pam n family
xx

Thanks Sara and Pam, it's certainly not easy. I've never been connected with anyone with terminal cancer before. It's such a cruel disease but Dad's not lost his sense of humour (He's 82 and had never been ill till this started about 3 1/2 years ago)
He doesn't complain but he's SOOOoooooo stubborn!! Not good at taking pain relief and nobody can get through to him but it wouldn't be Dad if he was any other way :)
We way I'm going I don't think I'll live to be his age :) :)
Dot

Pam Dot my thoughts are with you both so sorry . {{{HUGS}}}
Mari

Sorry to hear your news Pam. It is obviously going to be very hard for you all. Take care.

{{hugs}}
Joan and the Griffs
Take the rough with the smooth

Pam

So sorry to hear about your father in law...I'm sure the boys will be fine..

Best wishes

Natasha

XX

Pam

I only wish I could help you as much as you've helped me.

With love and hugs

Beth

sorry to hear about your Father-in-Law Pam :( my thoughts are with you and the family.
Sara