My daughter has an 8 month old retriever - who she has had since he was 8 weeks old.  He has always been a very hungry puppy and had his food increased accordingly.  He has always been prone to becoming stiff when stroked whilst eating.  He the progressed onto low growling and has just started to turn his lip too!  She has - when he was smaller - almost picked him up by his scrufff and told him 'no', but he does not seemed to have learnt.  I have now suggested hand feeding again.  We noticed at training last night, that he is becoming timid and not the outgoing chap he was, possibly due to having to be reprimanded over this problem.  Other than this he is a lovely dog and gets on well with the children, but there now must always be a concern when he is around them with food.  Please, any help and advice would be much appreciated.  He came from a lady who is well known in the breed and there should not really be a question mark over his temperament.

Has your daughter approached the breeder for advice over this problem? That really should have been her first port of call when the problem presented initially.

I am not an expert at all but I would definitely not pick him up by the scruff or tell him off for growling or raising his lip.

His reactions to people when he is eating his food is a warning that he is not happy with them being so close to his food. A growl is his way of telling you that he is not happy with a situation, and lifting his lip is the next line for him if nobody has taken notice of him saying back off I'm not comfortable with this. If he is reprimanded for doing this he learns that it is not acceptable behaviour but doesn't stop the problem of him not being happy having people close to him while he is eating. So his next line of communication is to snap or bite which you certainly don't want him to do but is the only alternative left to him.

I have never had a dog who guards his resources so am not in a position to tell you how to go about altering the situation. All I can say is how I would approach this myself but it is just my opinion and based on the knowledge I have of my dog. Firstly I wouldn't touch him at all while he is eating as he clearly sees this as a threat. I would never try to take his food away from him as this would be turning the threat he is worried about into a reality and he would probably react to it. by snapping or biting. I would ask him to sit before I  put his food bowl down and then let him go to his bowl as a reward for the sit. I would walk away from him and leave him to eat in peace - no threat to him so no need to warn you off. I would remain in the same room as him as he ate but as far away  as possible and not look at him while he is eating. Once he was used to me being around whilst eating I would gradually move closer by a single step each day but backing off to the day before's distance if he showed any sign of worry. I would keep repeating these actions until I was within a fairly close proximity to him, still not looking directly at him or taking any notice.

Gradually he will realise that you are not a threat to one of his most precious resources - his food - and he will no longer need to warn you to back off.

As  I say I have not been in this position before myself but am sure other more knowledgeable people will be able to give you some great advice - the above is what I would do myself if I has as dog  who did this and is not an expert opinion at all.

Hope your daughter can increase his confidence when he is feeding and teach him that people are not a threat to him. We have a GR ourselves - they are wonderful dogs. :)

Why does your daughter need to stoke her dog while he's eating?

I'm very laid back but if anyone kept wanting to stroke my hair while I was eating I'd tell them to leave me alone and after 6 months of it happening regularly I'm sure I'd show less restrain than her dog and I'd have punched her by now.

If the concern is over what would happen if the children took the food then they should be taught not to and supervised for the few minutes it takes the dog to eat to make sure they don't upset him. Having said that I think that it should be possible to take the dogs food without risk of biting but your daughter has gone about this the wrong way.

I'd suggest that the next few weeks she gives him his food and doesn't touch and talk to him at all while he eats. If she really thinks it necessary to be able to take his food away (why?) she should look into how to do it properly. I'm sure lots of people on here can advise.

Overall I'd tell her to stop bothering the poor dog while he eats. He must have an excellent temperament to have been so patient with her for this long but if she carries on he might snap.

Sorry, that might be blunter than I intended but it upsets me that dogs are put through so much stress unnecessarily and then blamed for quite reasonably being defensive.

He's saying "Please leave me alone when I'm eating" and is being punished for doing so -his only next resort can then be to bite as he's been told he can't warn. That's dangerous. So first off, he should be left alone when eating. Secondly, he needs to be taught that his food is NOT going to be taken away from him. A good start is to teach him to swap. Start with boring stuff. Give him something boring to eat, such as a plain chew, and offer him something really tasty (piece of sausage, liver, cheese, whatever) and swap for it.  That way he'll learn that having something taken away from him means something even nicer will appear. And finally start adding food TO his bowl when he is eating, by dropping pieces into it.

Thanks for the responses so far - I will pass them on for her to read.  In my opinion, with our breed you should be able to take food away, in fact do almost anything with them - I have 4 and am able to do this with all of them.  Unfortunately, we bought him in and on reflection this may not have been the best way forward.

>In my opinion, with our breed you should be able to take food away

Why on earth should you need to be able to take food away from a dog ? What does it prove ? Your dogs need to see you as a source of food not a taker of food-Now teaching your dogs to leave things or give up things for reward can be life saving but not food that belongs to a dog you can be asking for trouble no matter what breed you have

How about for safety - or health?

Health-wise - perhaps not applicable in this situation, granted - an owner might give one dog a bowl of food intended for another (say, with a different kibble or medication in) and need to swap the bowls safely.

Safety - what if something's fallen in the bowl by accident that's not safe for the dog?  Or what if something happens and the owner needs to get the dog to safety but it's too busy munching?  Maybe not likely, but life is never predictable this way.

I'm not saying you should be able to just take food away for no reason - that's just daft - but it's important to consider those rare, and hopefully never to happen, situations where it might be necessary.

In my opinion, with our breed you should be able to take food away, in fact do almost anything with them - I have 4 and am able to do this with all of them.  Unfortunately, we bought him in and on reflection this may not have been the best way forward.

I've missed what breed you have, but speaking as someone who is involved with dogs and owners I would say that many serious behaviour problems (ie next step euthanasia) are caused by owners taking food away and then punishing the reaction, usually over time. I think somewhere along the line the idea of taking food away was a myth which has kind of stuck.

We should be able to take food away, but not without reason and not to test the dog's temperament. This, like anything else, should be trained for in a more set up situation. I can stroke my dog for instance, whilst she eats, but I've taught her to trust me and she does :) I also stroke her rarely, I think it's unfair to bother a dog whilst they eat as it's one of the highlights of their day.

Dogs don't think like people do, and people don't think like dogs. In the wild, the lowest pack member would fight for its food and the others would recognise that right. I think that undue stress has been put on the dog and that possibly this is now showing in the rest of his interactions with his owner.

Breeders can be helpful, (says she, aware many are breeders on here :P ) but sadly some will stick to old methods and say punish the dog etc. This may work - but it's ahuge risk. It's also not fair on the dog, can in some cases lessen trust, and can cause the dog to react more so there is worse confrontation - this happens a lot unfortunately - ask any reputable behaviourist.

If your friend would like to read about guarding/possession, a helpful book might be "Mine!" by Jean Donaldson. However, although very good i hesitate to recommend it in a way as it' s a bit behaviouristy for maybe a pet owner. However, if your friend is a keen reader and quite into finding out more it could be very helpful. A better book might be "Dogs are from Neptune" also by her, a superb book which has a chapter on resource guarding :) I love this book as it has case histories and the auther has turned many a problem dog around with her experience :)

Lots of luck to your friend

Lindsay
x

He came from a lady who is well known in the breed and there should not really be a question mark over his temperament.

My last post got rather long, sorry. I just wanted to say that i doubt the dog's temperament is dodgy.
Sometimes breeders will feed pups all together, that can later exacerbate food guarding problems, however it may just be that
this particular dog is very protective overhis food and just needs some training for this to be overcome, and for the trust to come back :)

Lindsay
x

Totally agree, this dog has been given the wrong message completely, grabbing a food guarding dog by the scruff is in fact doing nothing more than challenging him as far as the dog is concerned, the fact that he has been challenged as an Alpha dog would do and then the food not taken must confuse him even more. He has just learnt that if he growls and stands his ground you may go away.

Just some re-trainining techniques are needed, the best of dogs from the best of breeders if given wrong signals can become stubborn and show bad behaviour, dogs follow very simple pack rules once you learn how to behave towards your dog and what makes your dog tick it is easy to train.

However, each dog is different and will respond to different techniques which is why a behaviourist is needed to assess the situation now and show you the way forward. :-)

We have a big guarding breed and have owned JRTs' also. We have never had a problem like this and have always been able to take anything from our dogs, no problem. If you feed them treats and hold their bones/chews in your hand for them to chew, which is a  real treat for our Dobe, they soon learn that you are the resourse and not the food itself. Our dogs will eat their meals, swop dishes then back again, they even share whole bones and have a good chew together. One on one end and one on the other. I guess they are never threatned with starvation or thieft?

Please contact and talk to your breeder about this, if he were one of mine I would like to know and be able to offer advice.

We have a growling puppy but it is because she is one of the last we speak to if you are stoking or speaking the any of the other 4 dogs she growls until you talk to her.

I quite agree with everyone... to take food away from dogs on a regular basis encourages food guarding as the dog can never be sure whether they get to keep the food or not.

A much better approach to preventing food aggression is to approach the dog regularly with a specially yummy treat to be dropped into the bowl. This way the dog will look forward to having people around him when eating because it means that he might get a special treat; and he won't have any reason to growl when people approach or touch him.

So in your daughter's case with her goldie, she needs to start approaching the dog (however far he lets her) and drop a nice treat in his food bowl. If she continues doing that he will soon look forward to having her around when eating.

Vera

I have always taught my puppies to let me take their full bowl away.
I pick it up when they are eating and let them see me adding more food.
They seem so pleased to let me take the bowl away as they know it means more food :)
I have GSD's and I have never had problems taking their food away when eating.
They know it is in there best interests to let me take it off them as they will be rewarded with more food.
Make it a positive expereance for them.  Don't let them think you are taking their food away, let them think, yum more food.
Try to think as a dog does, bowl away = lost dinner.  Or bowl away = more dinner :)
Hope this helps a bit.

Forgot to mention.  It's never nice to be pesterd when eating.  Human or animal we all like to eat undisturbed and I can see ne reason to do it.
Let eating be an undisturbed pleasure unless you are adding more food.  Then you will be able to take the bowl away if you have got good reason.
To sum up, train your dog to let you take away the bowl when feeding, once you are sure you are able to do that anytime then let doggy eat in peace. 
This makes a happy and confident dog and an owner who knows that food can be taken away if it is really neccesary in an emergency.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

You are treating your dogs with human logic & not as dogs. Feral parent dogs do not supply their puppies with food then take it away. Teaching a go to leave or give something for a reward is not the same as taking a meal away just to prove you can even to add more food, why not just add more food when the dog is eating this would reinforce you as the provider of food & ergo give the dog a good experience

I have never ever done this & over the years I have never had a problems with any of my many GSDs, Beardies, BC's Cavaliers or Crossbreed. They were all taugt to given up &/or drop things on command & this prevents them getting into danger with items or food they should not have.

I quite agree MM.

I've had a few breeds from different groups over the years and never taught them that I could take food away.  If they had something that I didn't want them to have I just took it!  Had the odd one that looked at me with a wicked glint and legged it into the garden before I could stop them :d but apart from that all mine let me take anything.  I think if dogs trust you they'll let you do anything. 

Debs