Hiya all,

Just had my fabulous little Rotti boy brought to me two days ago, a bit young as he only turned 6 weeks yesterday but to be honest I am glad as these people didn't have a clue what they were doing, was planning to get off a breeder that I had heard was good not far from me but am in the middle of a dispute with him as he sold my puppy even though he had a deposit off myself, my partner went and picked this one without me knowing as a little surprise (I was feeling a little low after the breeder incident) they have brought him down, he is in perfect health (checked by vet the next morning) although he is small he is coming on wonderful, have changed his food as they were feeding him the mothers food not puppy food wasn't weaned tidy at all but he is brillient even after two days with us.

I am stuck on one thing though, for the life of me I CANNOT think of a name, I have thought and thought the past two nights and nothing sticks in my head, I have gone with Zeus but then changed my mind, my friend said Cujo which I liked but then after thinking about it, its a little stereo typed considering cujo was a killer saint bernard.

Any suggestions will be gratefully received
Thanks for reading
Sarah x

Really jealous of you Sarah, I would love a rottie but its going to have to wait a while.  I like Nero which sounds quite strong but not too macho and my boy will be called Oberon (hopefully).  I think it is a good contrast to the butch names and having a dog named after the king of the fairies makes me giggle.  Other names I like are Elvis.

Nero is actually quite nice, my partners not convinced though haha, I would put a picture up to help out a little but I haven't got a clue how to do it lol :rolleyes: useless lol

Oh Sarah,

Why did your hubby do that!  I know he loves you and has bought you a little boy to make up for the disaster that has happend, but this site does nothing but try to guide all of you folks out there on buying from reputable breeders, you say yourself that these breeders don't have a clue, it is so important especially with a breed like a Rotti to get from a breeder who knows what they are doing, has good bloodlines, good health and temperament, Cujo may well be the right name for this pup, I know you will probably think me terrible for pointing this out and perhaps I am upsetting you, but I am thinking of protecting you and others around you in buying dogs from bad breeders.

Rotti's are big cuddly teddy bears brought from good breeders, from bad breeders you don't know what you are getting health and temperament wise.

Personally I would take the pup back and look for one from a good breeder, just my opinion but it is worth the wait.

Hi Sarah, how about Khan (meaning King) or Prince (seeing as he's small) or I like names like dave or Steve (for comedic value)  I am really hopeless at choosing names  LOL

Edited to say...hubby says what about Brian??  LOL

I like Hugo!

Yeah...Hugo...

Carrington,

I have to say I agree with you fully but didn't want to seem to be the lone killjoy!

Sarah, there will always be lots of good Rottweiler puppies being bred from very responsible breeders.  It's not that hard to find.  Personally I wouldn't take a puppy less than 8 weeks old before and as you have said he wasn't weaned either.  To be taken from the nest before 6 weeks old, unweaned and probably lacking any socialisation is a little bit of a recipe for disaser...I do hope I'm proved wrong.

Ditto.

I have to admit I agree wholeheartedly - these breeders exist because they have a ready market, and the only way to stop them is for people not to buy their "product".

And it would be a disaster if this badly bred boy mated with your Rottie bitch! :(

I suspect that selling Avon would be better than selling badly bred Rottie puppies.

Dito to the last posts. May god forgive those who bred without knowledge or care, hearts and lifes they break.

I do agree with you Carrington, in that all puppy farms should be banned, I get so angry when I hear about some of the awful things that happen
I guess it's not quite that simple to take him back as I imagine Sarah has already fallen in love with him.

I would be furious if someone bought me a puppy and without doubt would return him to the breeder.  Sharing your family and home with a large powerful dog is so important to get right that I would want to know that the pup was from health tested and generations of good tempered ancestors bred by a knowledgable breeder. :(

I'd be furious too
I'd want to choose my own :rolleyes:
And it's not bad advice to suggest taking the puppy back - but what would happen to him then?  I imagine that's a question which Sarah would have on her mind :(

Hi
Thanks for your reply but I would like to say there is no chance of mating as my other dogs are spayed, I have no interest in breeding, I love the breed and worship them as family pets, to be honest I think we have got lucky, he is actually quite wonderful considering, also I was thinking of going to a kennel but how would I know the breeder pups from the puppy farm pups, I could of ended up with one the same as mine even as a rescue dog, if I know my partner as good as I think I do, I know he would never have brought home a pup without checking both parents out carefully, he came home saying they were fab and I believe him

Sorry to disagree with some of you but he is here to stay, I was not asking for info on his nature etc I was asking help with picking a name, to those of you who gave names THANKYOU VERY MUCH

I appreciate you now have this puppy SarahLouise but for the sake of anyone else reading this thread it need not be quite the hit and miss exercise you fear if you source your breeder through the Breed Club.  You can then have at least some reassurance that they will have bred to their code of practice ensuring the bitches and puppies welfare and followed all the guidelines in preventative health screening.  I think it is also important to note that both parents being available for viewing should always be regarded with some degree of suspicion.  It certainly can be the case that the pair have been coupled together for the best possible reasons but unfortunately, I would say, in the majority of cases this could not be further from the truth.

Hi, I wasn't clear in my post he was/is weaned but what I meant was they were weaning him on the mothers food (adult) not a good quality puppy food.

I think you will be proved wrong he is an adorable little thing, very sociable, very friendly (I know he is a small pup but he has seen visitors pass through and been very friendly) he even greets people at the door which I find quite unusual for a pup of this age.

As I said he is no doubt better off here then he was there, he has good lines no papers given as I do not want to show/stud etc just wanted another rotti as a family pet so they were not needed.  Partner seen parents papers (he doesn't know to much) but he did state there were a good few CH reds on both of them.

I am pleased with him and once he has his injections will be enroling him into training classes
Thanks
Sarah

I know he would never have brought home a pup without checking both parents out carefully

Partner seen parents papers (he doesn't know to much)

Those two statements sound contradictory to me? 
Inheritance comes from behind parents, not always directly from parents. :(

I am typing in such a rush i'm not getting my points across to clearly, he looked at parents papers (generations) what I should have said is he doesn't know to much on names of dogs etc so therefore looking at the papers and seeing all these dogs wouldn't have any meaning to him but what he did say was there were a few ch reds on the generations of both parents

I feel that you are getting your points across very clearly SarahLouise and I'm afraid that the hole gets bigger and bigger. :(  If you love the breed as a family companion then my suggestion still stands.

And even if you only want your dog for a pet, it should still come with a pedigree and KC registration papers.   Not every male dog out there is a stud dog, there's lots bought as family pets from good breeders who provide their puppy buyers with a full after sales service including registration papers, pedigree, literature applicable to the breed, puppy food etc.

My familys first 'pet' dog was a Springer bought for £50 but he was KC registered and had a pedigree with 'lots of red' in it. 

I love the breed I own but I don't worship them.  They are treated as dogs not demi-gods.

As I stated in my last but one post, I did not ask for information on dogs natures etc I have had rottis for years and feel quite comfortable bringing up this little fella, I merely asked for a little help on picking a name for him, thats all I wanted so any further posts will be ignored.  Its people like yourself who deter others away from this site when they are asking for a helping hand in something as you jump on the bandwagon because their dogs are not by breeders, there are plenty of dogs in the kennels that have come from both breeders and puppy farms telling them apart is very difficult. I know breeders are better to get a dog from and I appreciate your opinions on this but if this is truly the case why do their dogs also end up in the kennels on times.  A very good friend of mine went to a very good breeder not far from where we are picked his puppy who is now two she is lovely, very friendly, truly a credit to the breed but apart from her and her brother the rest of the 11 pup litter had to be pts due to bad temprements one even went as far as to bite the owners child, this is from a breeder but still this happened.

It would be very rare for a responsible breeders pups to end up in rescue kennels as this kind of breeder would take the dog back to re-home themselves or help with homing should a change in circumstances occur.

Should the owners not let the breeder know many will ensure their pups are permanently identified by Ear Tattoo or Microchip so that they can be located.

The pedigree pups you will find in rescues are usually produced by the casual breeder who should not be breeding as 'they don't have a clue' or puppy farmers.  both of these don't take any responsibility after taking the buyers money, and aren't fussy who they sell to either, thereby the dogs often ending up in rescue.

It is the genuine breeders and lovers of the breed that dig into their pockets to support rescue taking on the load from these irresponsible puppy producers, many of these breeders will help rescue in many ways.

As Rotties are not a rare breed going to the breed club/s will get you contacts for well bred litters that are probably available without too long a wait.

Ok Brainless fair point you made but what if it comes down to people on low incomes that cannot afford breeders prices but really want a dog they know they will love and care for, for the rest of its life, how do breeders give these people a chance, they don't is the answer because there prices are to high so these people go to places like freeads and classified etc where they get cheap pups from "irresponsible breeders", prices on full breed dogs today is beyond same could be said for designer pups prices going into their £1000's its not possible for people on lower incomes to purchase such breeds, thats why you find the puppy farmers are still in business because theres call for it, if breeders prices were cheaper people would almost go to them every time as they would know they dogs background, health etc and at a good price that people can afford

The trouble is that puppy farmers and backyard breeders charge the same if not more than reputable breeders, but without the lifelong backup.

I have contradicted my self a little if you read as I did post about a pup on freeads with no papers being £395.

Although in some cases this is true £395 I don't find a bad price but when it goes up to £500 - £600, I do however think thats a little pricey.  Many Breeders are charging these prices whether they are knowledgable or not I don't know as anyone can become registered these days so i'm told.

I phoned up a lady not long ago about an 8 month old rotti, gorgeous dog, fab markings, brill pedigree from a well known breeder he was going for £500 at 8 months old, I do not critisise this woman for selling him at this price as he was a true credit to the breed, all family could be seen with him, but my point is he was 8 months old and still going at £500, how are people supposed to have a chance at buying great dogs at these prices

A wellbred, well-reared dog for £500 at 8 months old is actually very good value. Think about all the time and effort gone into training him, and the cost of his food, injections etc. What would put me off would be if both sire and dam lived at the same premises.

Would you buy a cheap car from the small ads without checking the MOT, taking it for a test drive and having it checked by a qualified mechanic? Or would you buy one with a warranty (the equivalent of KC registration)?

>Many Breeders are charging these prices whether they are knowledgable or not I don't know as anyone can become registered these days so i'm told.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Breeders aren't registered - dogs are. Don't forget your hysband bought Mack from a 'breeder'; anyone whose bitch has a litter is a breeder.

The price of 1 packet of cigarettes a day comes out at just under £1800 in one year and what do you have to show for wasting all that money besides bad health?

£550 for a well bred Rottie sounds even a little cheap to me, I would expect £600-£650.

It does actually cost rather a lot to rear a litter well especially when people may be travelling huge distances to stud dogs (abroad even in some cases, or importing semen and the expenses involved with that).

My last two litters of just a medium size breed (don't eat as much as Rotts) cost me over £3000 and £1800 respectively. 

Both mothers are champions and the first involved going abroad flying two air routes (cost £1200), and the latter litter raised some extra Vet fees due to mastitis, out of hours amounting to several hundred pounds.

For my breed you would expect to pay around £550, which compares rather well with the latest play station console, or a LCD TV.

So these, and the costs involved with other aspects of showing and owning dogs will set what a good breeder feels is a fair price.  Only problem is that the poor breeders who have hugely cut corners on some of the most basic essentials, like food, let alone researching and travelling to the best studs, or importing new bloodlines, showing and working their dogs to prove them, charge not much less.  Guess who makes a huge profit out of dogs?  Especially as they do not pick up the pieces years down the line when the dog needs help.

It is a bit like paying the same price for poor quality clothing at the market as you would for well made realistically priced clothing from a reputable chain store. 

Designer gear is overpriced so didn't want to use that comparison, as sadly it does apply to some breeds and non breeds with silly money changing hands for breeds that happen to be the in thing. 

The only breeders that are required to be registered (that is with the council) are those deemed to be carrying on a business, which is normally those breeding five or more litters a year.

Very few reputable breeders would breed that many litter unless several family members are involved with maybe more than one breed.  Most breeders will have a litter or maybe two in any year, often far less.

if breeders prices were cheaper people would almost go to them every time as they would know they dogs background, health etc and at a good price that people can afford

VERY false economy seeing as the vet's bills are far more likely to be big for a dog from a dubious source. The simple answer is that if you want a wellbred dog you save up for it, no matter how long it takes. I'm a housewife, my husband works in a warehouse, not a lot of money there, so I've saved for 2 years to be able to get a wellbred Papillon pup hopefully to show. I could not have found the money in one go but saving works. (After all, if I was not able to put a bit of money aside now and then, I'd not be able to afford vet's bills etc either.)

Sorry that you are taking some of our points to heart, they are not a critcism of you or the pup who I am sure is lovely, all pups are lovely and sweet and friendly, many, many people do exactly what you have done, I know you have fallen for your pup in the two short days that you have had him.

(Your husband looked at the papers of the parents)

Were they KC papers though, does your pup have KC papers? The KC is there to honour and back up good breeders and penalize the bad, if the pup is not KC reg then there is no way of checking hereditary problems or of owners complaining to the KC that pups are of bad temperament or health. If the pup were KC reg, though I doubt that :-( and champs are way back past great grandparents then that possibly means that since a champ the dogs have just been pet bred to pet bred meaning the best 'stock' has not been used responsible breeders will endorse their pups to make sure that only the best are used to breed from another reason for a KC reg dog.

All pups may appear to be healthy and happy go lucky, but by the time that pup is a year old bad temperaments that were not present in it as a pup will surface, health issues will surface over the coming years, it is not something you can see in a pup. ;-)

Only buying from a reputable breeder will guarantee good bloodlines, that is not just for breeders, or the show or working world, that is for the normal pet dog too, pet dogs should also be from good bloodlines.

I can see from your posts that you are going to keep your little boy, at least he will have a good home, I hope that he will stay of good temperament and I hope he will have no hereditary health problems, personally, I wouldn't have touched the breeders with a barge pole that is something I have learnt from experience as a breeder and a careful owner.

I wish you and your pup all the luck in the world, those of us who have made negative comments are truly only doing so out of knowledge most of us have been in the dog world for many years, and know the pitfalls of bad breeding and we are trying to help yourself and others to have the best dogs that you can and pass on the knowledge that we have.  Rescues unfortunately aswell as other reasons are full of dogs from bad breeders, who all started off as wonderful pups. :-(

It is not for any of us to say, do this or do that, but we would not be good breeders, dog owners, or worth being on this forum if we did not try to pass on what we know.

Thankyou very much Carrington

Put in this context it isn't bad at all.

I have definately fallen for him in a big way and I truly do understand your concerns, I have just been on the phone to the people we purchased him off and they are sending a copy of both dogs pedigree and generations through the post so I can take a look myself.
Have just asked hubby and he said they were kc with one champ being the sires father.
He was sold to us without papers but I didn't of course think this was a problem as I was not going to show/stud him etc and after my hub seeing the papers I didn't mind to much, but you have brought up some good issues after his injections I will be seeing my vet about hip scoring and other tests to see if there could/is any problems and if so then I can go by the sale of goods act with the people we purchased him off.

I understand you were all trying to help and add your views, I just got a little et up as I had only asked for help on a name, we have now named him Mack.
Thanks to you all for help with naming and also viewing your concerns

Sarah, please please understand we only have your best interests at heart. Some of us (me included) have suffered heart ache through badly bred pups and voice our concerns to you only as a warning of possable heartache to come. I truly wish you all the best with him Mack is a nice name, although put my thinking cap on and though Ruben or Ridick would have been nice. Let us know how you get on with him.

Will do thanks :)

If you see a post with Mack in the title then you know who it is lol, I just hope its not something where you can all say well we told you so haha

Sarah x

Your welcome Sarah, that is all we want to do help as best we can, Mack is a great name.

Some more help :-) Sorry, but you will have no come back on Mack if his hips are bad in the future, or if anything else is wrong with him, no one can guarantee that a pup will be healthy the best way to ensure that is to buy from a breeder whose dogs lineage shows no problems. That is why we all try to disway anyone looking for a puppy from buying from none reputable breeders as there is no come back. :-(

If both his parents are KC reg your pup should be too, it only cost the owner a few pounds to register a pup if Mack does not have his own papers there are many reasons for this none good I'm afraid but we will happily give you the list of reasons if you wish it.

At the end of the day you are now madly in love with your pup, if you can't bare to part with him which I do understand then just keep your fingers crossed that he will grow up to be a fine dog, I'm really happy you will be taking Mack to classes that is the best start he can ever have.

We are here if you need our help or advice in the future. Plenty of Rotti owners on here too.

Thankyou for the well wishes.

I would like to ask a question though was just looking through the freeads to see how many people are selling Rotti without papers for an extortinate price
One is as follows: Rottweiler puppies. These pedigree (not reg.) pups are a wonderful example of the breed. They are big, bold and strong with fantastic temperaments. They have been bred from proven family lines. Father is an impressively handsome dog with a hip score of 10 (above average) with a temperament to match, and mum is a big boned very kind and good tempered bitch. These pups are well socialised and very friendly and outgoing. They will grow to become excellent pets and loyal companions/guardians. They have been regularly wormed and flea treated and will be sold with the benefit og 6 weeks free insurance and a comprehensive puppy pack. Boys and girls available. Both parents can be seen here.

I always thought that the lower the hip score the better, I may however be wrong lol would appreciate somebody putting me right on this, the pups above are going for £395 but no KC papers with them, how are people allowed to do this ?
There are other people doing the same and selling £500 plus, there are others elsewhere giving you the option of papers if you pay extra
Surely these people shouldn't be able to advertise like this ?

People will charge what people will pay.  If people would not buy unregistered pups or those whose parents were not hip scored then people would stop breeding from bitches and dogs they can't register (often over or under age, to many litters or who have no papers of their own, maybe even stolen).

Yes the lower the hip score the better.  The average for Rotts is: 13, and the Median (most common) is: 9.

>there are others elsewhere giving you the option of papers if you pay extra

It only costs the breeder £12 to register each puppy in the litter. If a breeder is prepared to cut corners on such a small sum, they'll almost certainly have cut corners on the bigger things too. When you see an ad like that, run very fast the other way!

You say your husband saw that Mack's parents were both KC registered. Did he take note of their hipscores?

No sadley he didn't JeanGenie but hopefully we will see them soon as the people we had him off will be sending copys of both papers and generations

sarahlouise, mack is a great name and the only advice I would give you is to get insurance that covers conditions for a lifetime rather than 1 year.  Although you don't know much about his background you could save yourself a fortune in the long run if he does have bad hips or any other problems. 

I just wanted to add that a lady that used to come to our training classes bought a Rottweiler in much the same way. She was a lovely natured bitch, really friendly etc, did well with her training. But her hips were so bad she had to be put to sleep aged just one year. :( Her owner learnt a very sad lesson. Unfortunately, as long as somebody buys pups from less than good breeders these people will continue to breed.

Then I would suggest that you get Mack insured with a very good company to cover all eventualities. :)

How can you know without papers if the bloodlines are good, and most importantly whether the parents were hip scored and had any other breed relevant health tests. 

You may not want to show but you do want a Rotti that has the best chance of being healthy and having a good character and growing up to look like his breed. 

Even fairly minor problem can cost an awful lot of money not to mention heartache.  I have never had one of my breed with an ear infection, but at the moment have spent over £350 on treating one in my youngest champion.

I've also just got a new Rottie pup, well he's 5 mths now but I looked carefully into the lines that I wanted my Rott from and I got a fantastic pup who will be hitting the show ring very soon!  I gave him the name Odin as I think its a good strong name, it also links in with my Akita who is called Loki....we've got the Norse god theme going on at the mo!!  But I have to say I will always be very choosy when it comes to where I am getting any pup from and would want to know my pup is getting the best start in his/her life.

SarahLouise I would like to say Congratulations on your delightful new puppy.
I can see where everyone is coming from because as an exhibitor and very careful breeder quite a few years ago now, I am the first to reccomend anyone looking for a puppy of a certain breed goes to a reputable breeder.  However looking on the other side of the coin, I at the moment have a Rottiex GSD bitch that I got at 5weeks old, Yes 5weeks.  The breeders were real back yard breeders as they owned a scrap yard and thier dogs were guard dogs of the yard.  They had self docked, pups were all outside and they were getting rid to new homes that weekend.  Poor little mites were going to people who hadn't a clue, so I decided as I had the space to get one of them out of there and give them a good chance at life, so home come my girl Shady who is now nearly 2years old.
I knew all the health and temprement implications but after 30 odd years in dogs I really wanted to make sure one at least had a fair go at becoming a loved family member.  Anyway to cut a long story short she has grown into the most lovable loyal family member anyone could wish for.  I had her spayed at 6 months as there are lots of loose dogs in this area and I wanted to make sure that definatly she would never breed and for her future health too.  She adores people and also to be sure of her hips etc when she was 14 months I had her hips x-rayed by an orthapedic vet and he said they were very very good and she will definatly have no problems with them.  She does agility and loves it.
The only problem she does have which is nothing to do with where I got her from but to do with irresposible owners and thier dogs on walks., is she is now fear aggresive with other dogs especially border collies or ones that look similar.  Sadly she got attacked when about 4 months old by two Staffies in seperate incidents that were off the lead and just rushed at her and grabbed her.  Then at dog training  the border collies used to nip at her and got her a few times as they went past. She was still ok with dogs even though another border collie over the field rushed over and grabbed her very aggresively when it came out of the woods a few mins before the owner came strolling out.  The final straw was when I was standing talking to a friend with her Border Collie and she was sitting quietly at my side tongue lolling out and this BC leapt forward and grabbed her tongue causing it to bleed very badly.  It really made her scream out and my friends dog came back for more.  Took ages for the bleeding to stop and from that day she is terrified if a dog rushes up to her and so she gets defensive first.
She will happily play off lead with dogs that don't want to rough and tumble and my JRT leaps all over her shaking her by the scruff and trying to pull her along by her ears and she doesn't care even when she is chewing a bone as she know he won't really hurt her however fierce he sounds LOL.

Sorry this is so long but I wanted to say some of these dogs grow into wonderful adults when with someone knowledgable, its so easy for any dog to end up in the wrong hands and have temprement problems and even the best bred dog can have health problems.  I've had it happen to me.
At least Sarahlouise has experience of dogs so will be able to give this pup a good chance in life too, I would rather see it with her than with a first time owner.  To ask her to give back a pup she already loves would be impossible and she would probaly always wonder what had happened to it afterwards as the breeders obviously wouldn't care who took it off thier hands.
I wish you and you pup a long and happy future together and I am sure if you do encounter any future problems you will do your best to deal with them and not just pass it on to someone else.

Well said!!!!  yes the poor under dogs can turn out to be the best friend you may ever have...
Border collies have been the breed that have gone for our Leo boy many times, he is such a gentle boy that takes it but some wouldn't.  My girl for instance stands her ground if a dog of any breed tries it on.  Great Dane in her instance, i nearly died but she didn't....
Good luck and enjoy your lovely new pup.
Yvonne

Heinz 57's have been the most robust & loving dogs for years. Good luck with your new pup, 'it's the deed & not the breed' as I've heard so much on CD.