This message is on behalf of a friend who needs to maintain her anonymity.

She owned three rottweilers, two of which attacked a lady delivering census forms to her house. The lady suffered cuts to her arm, which we understand from the courrt hearing have left her with extensive permanent scarring from her wrist to her elbow, plus some other cuts to her back and neck. She has been taken to court and the dogs have been destroyed.

If the lady makes a claim against her for compensation.......

(a) Does the result of the court case mean she weould definitely have to pay compensation
(b) How much might she be awarded?
(c) Would my friend's financial means (she is unemployed but lives with her husband who is in work) be taken into account?
(d) Can she pass the claim to her domestic insurer?

I belive if her household insurance has 3rd party cover then she should be able to pass on the claim. She should ring her insurance people now and make no comment to anyone else until she has. If she is covered they will take over everything. She may still be charged with having the dogs out of control. I have not legal training and my coments are only things as I belive them to be, but the CAB should be able to help.
Jackie

I just wondered if the 'legal cover for third party liability' on dog insurance policies such as pet plan would help with this type of thing? Sorry I know it's no help to the lady in question, I just wondered.

What an dreadful thing to happen, she must feel awful. I wonder what triggered the attack. Even worse for the poor lady who was attacked though, it can be terrifying. My Mum was bitten quite badly on the back of the leg by a GSD a few years back, it was on the lead, and she is now very frightened of most dogs and hates GSDs. She used to come to training with me to watch them do agility but she can't any more as she's too scared of the bigger dogs, and she is also not comfortable visiting me anymore because of my 16 week old weim, which someone has helpfully informed her will be more aggressive than a GSD :-(

Im not too sure myself , but if the dog is classed under the dangerous dogs act by a court then the insurers may say you should have had insurance under the DDA the same as dogs on the register. The DDA is a very sketchy peice of legislation open to interpretation from many veiws. This was done to allow any type of dog to come under the act. (DDa 1991 section 3) It would come down to whether or not she knew the dog was dangerous or not. Has it done this before. Has it been reported before. Will anyone testify that the dogs were intimidating/aggressive/was there warning signs/etc. The only people who can advise on this case are solicitors.

All the best Mick

As already stated it would be well worth contacting their insurance company if they are insured. The fact that the lady has already been to court and a destruction order made by the judge would suggest that she has been prosecuted by the police under the dangerous dogs act is this the case or was it a civil matter in the county court??

If it was a criminal prosecution the judge may have awarded compensation which can usually be paid in instalments as agreed by the judge in line with her financial circumstances, also the victim may be claiming compensation via the CICB (criminal injuries compensation board) if this was a criminal matter.

The best thing your friend can do is to speak to the CITIZENS ADVICE or a solicitor. She will usually get quite sound advice from the CAB.

please tell me she didnt have to wait for a court order before having the dogs destroyed, ---it has gone well past sorting after theyd done that sort of damage, another reminder that dogs such as rotties need to go to sensible and aware owners, ones that will see to it the dogs are secure etc ,therefore of no danger to anyone else, -no-ones mentioned the poor woman who was attacked, -how awful for her, also i feel for the dogs as through the owners neglect they too have suffered -pts !!--im really not suprised she wants anonymity,

If there is permanent scarring to the forearm of a lady (sorry all you blokes) then that can attract quite a large sum of compensation. Even if she has been awarded damages in the criminal courts she can still proceed with a claim in the civil courts which will attract a higher award.

It is the same thing over and over again so much of it , untrained unruly and
out of control dogs
when are people going to get it into their heads dogs are animals and should be respected for what they are.
And when they are out of control they must be quickly sorted
Then perhaps people innocent ones that are only going about their work may be safe.
I am so sorry for the lady in question and so glad it was not a child as the child being smaller would probably have their face off or worse.
I dont care what anyone say a scruffing or a smack is preferable to them losing their lives.
Every time something like this happens it starts off a witch hunt for our breeds,and puts them in danger of losing their lives .
So no I have no sympathy for the owner of those dogs as she and people like her are the ones putting not only people in danger but our innocent harmless dogs as well .
Mari

well said mari, regards tina

This seems a very strange place to ask these questions, surely the your friend's solicitor would be best placed to answer them as they know all the specifics of the case?

Christine

That's what I thought when I read this post
Especially since it would be difficult to maintain anonymity with 2 out of 3 rotties attacking, a lady passing out census forms, her arm severly injured, and the 2 dogs already put down. These details are pretty specific for easily Id'ing an incident -- imo.
toodles

I agree Mari. God that poor woman I mean the poster says she had cuts to her arm and then goes on to say just how badly she was in fact hurt. I am afraid if it were me I would sue for the most I could get.

Also I very much doubt if the household insurance would cover and if they own their own home I would imagine the court would accept that the dogs belonged to the husband and wife and the lady in question may even be able to put a caution on the house for the amount owed to her if and until she got her full compensation for her injuries.

Gina

But when people turn to this site they dont expect to be judged.

When you post on an open forum you SHOULD expect to be judged.
Especially on a subject such as this.
Do you remember Little Kelly lynch? She was killed by two rottys.
The owner of the dog thought it was okay for two 11 year olds( I think thats the correct age ) to take two rottys for a walk along a river bank.
How wrong and how sad.
The owner of the dogs took his own life after this. Three tragedys that could have been avoided with a little bit of common sense.

they dont expect to be judged!!!! what where they hoping for -a poor you, how will they afford it etc--not one word about the poor woman that was attacked-or how badly the dogs had been let down!, sorry, if you post its here for everyones opinions, and the only answer they seemed to need was where can they claim from :(

If I ever have a dog that bites or mutilates anyone ,man woman or child then I am sorry I expect to be judged.
That is why I teach my dogs not to do this else it could be me wondering how I will fare out in court and live with the guilt of what I have done yes done to the person and the dogs.
This is an advice board I know But to my knowledge it is not here to tell how to close the gate after the horse has bolted .
It is too late for the dogs now .
If the advice asked had been how to stop this happening all of us would be trying our utmost to help.
For gods sake I have giant breeds I do not want my harmless giants banned
So yes I am judgemental on people who allow their dogs get to this stage.
Mari

Hi Mari, I agree with you totally. There are extenuating circumstances, but not in that particular case. About five years ago, I was badly bitten in the face by a Weimaramer puppy. However, I was judging at the time, and am of the firm opinion, that if you keep messing about with strange dogs, eventually you are likely to be bitten. IMHO, you should however be able to walk down the street without being attacked by passing dogs.

Agree too Mari,

I was once bitten by a friends dog (totally my fault) and he bit the top of my finger, the nail split and the entire bone on the top of my finger was crushed.

The pain was excruciating and the finger is still not right a year later.

What someone must feel when hurt as this lady was

Theresa

THis is a quick reply but I would agree with what most have said except forget CAB and any other form of advice except a Solicitor, CAB are fine for a lot of things but if she faces Criminal or/and Cival charges the CAB won't be able to help much.

RE House insurance as far as I am aware the will not entertain anything like what has happened she would or should have had her own dog insurance and she is liable for costs incurred.

If she faces criminal she may get legal aid assistance.

Whether she has to pay compensation or a fine she will probably have to Pay something.

IF she and her husband own the dogs and in the eyes of the law she may find that do they would be jointly responsible for any costs.

You will fined the fine may be heavier than the compensation because compensation is calculated on lose of future earning etc but it depends on the judge and how they view things..and also the extent it has had on the victim.

I have to say and I may be wrong but she seems to have left it to the last min to deal with this, now she to may have been shocked but a court would favour someone who had taken immediate acton also. There seems to be too much emphasis on the avoidance of costs and fines in your post. Most good owners I think would take the concequences on the chin regardless if it caused them hardship for a period of time. I am sorry but it should and will be a lesson to your freind.

I will be suprised if these 2 dogs did not give off a warning sign earlier that they could be attackers and maybe should have been dealt with earlier.

I am sorry this has happened more so to the victim but the best thing you freind can do is get to a solicitor and face up to the actions of something she was responsible for.

Pam

And again the dogs get bad press because of owners. The dogs did not attack because they are bad. they attcacked because they did not know any better. No education, or social manners.
Does anyone know if these dogs were guard dogs?.
The owner should have made sure that deliveries could be made without the dogs coming into contact with the delivery people.
I have a mail box on my outside gate with my second gate at a point where my dogs could not see the outer gate. This creates a no mans land in the middle. I do have a lot of ground though which perhaps not everybody has.
This brings me back to the post I put in a while ago, that maybe there should be some form of license/ability test/mentality test/premises inspection etc. To see if you or your premises are suitable for the type of dog you want to own.
Maybe this person should have had cats.

All the best Mick

Hi Mr Murphy,

I agree with you about certain things but I personally don't agree with anyone keeping any kind of animal whether dog, cat that would have to be kept behind 2 gates to prevent attacking. Don't get me wrong I am in no way saying that this is the case with you and whilst I think the lengths you go to ensure safety around your property is very good if a person walked on your property and was seriously attacked I would certainly think the dogs responsible were not fit for cival environments. That is my opinion of course and others may view this differently.

All animals should be taught a a young age not to be aggresive, yes they will protect territory but growling etc is a good form and in my opinion the only acceptable form of protection. There in my opinion is no excuse for dogs attacking humans whether guard dogs or not.

Police dogs I would imagine are the only ones allowed in this country to be trained to attack but this is controlled also they are allow to catch and restrain but not allowed to maul people.

It is a touch line with dogs between protecting and over protecting but at the end of the day we do all agree it is the owners responsibility to ensure the line is not crossed which I believe we all do on the board.
Pam

Hello Pam

I do agree with you. My dogs were kept behind this kind of security for their own safety. Not the publics. It was the pit bull I had this for. If she had got access to the public at all she could have been put down.
If I wanted a deterant I had to bark myself.
I suspect the owner of the rottys in question probably had a very slight idea that her dogs may possibly have been aggressive. If so steps should have been taken to safeguard the public.

Cheers Mick

Think you may be right Mick..

Pam :-)

Why is eveyone judging here. we were just asked for advice. 'should is a pathetic word and doesn't help anyone.

I carried insurance for my pit bull for 11 years for up to 2 million third party damage to person or property.

If its only advice they want then I would advise them to see a solicitor and reach a settlement with the poor woman before she sues their £££ off. Because I think she SHOULD.

All the best Mick.

I have been reading your replies for weeks. I am not the only one to have mentioned their 'fear' of posting because of this sort of attitude, and OK I agree that these things are best debated and views aired and analysed and the rest but when do you get off your high horse. We do not have any clue about what sort of owner this lady was. You do not know. All her friend did was ask advice.

Ill get off my high horse when people stop getting these dogs a bad name. My chosen breed of dog was banned because of irresponsible humans. The clue I have to what sort of owner this lady is, is that two of her dogs attacked a fellow human being. Its the only clue Ive got.
Perhaps we SHOULD'nt judge her, but that is what humans do. Ive been called a drug dealer and a thug for owning pit bulls. I get judged do I not.
I dont beleive for a minute that this person thought her dogs were 100% safe. Perhaps she did not "think" anyone would call at that particular time of day. If you own these dogs you SHOULD to try and "think" in a responsible manner, you SHOULD try to "think" of all eventualitys. Everyone with larger breeds or dogs of certain type are judged on the actions of people like this.

Sorry its how I feel Mick. As for "SHOULD being a pathetic word". I think thats a pathetic dog owner, or SHOULD that be "apathetic"

I have to agree with the comments made by patbee......any person in their right mind would agree that the poor victim of the attack has every right to make a claim and also that the dogs may not have been suitably controlled, HOWEVER, the person asking the question was only after advice surely its is not for us to judge but just to answer the question asked if we can??
It doesn't mean that its any less a tragedy or that the owner is any less responsible just because they now wonder what may happen to them.

I was bitten for the first time in my life three and a half yrs ago
It happened when Alice my recently lost gentle bullmastiff was in puppy .
I guess a pregnant girl can send out the same scent as if she was in heat
A black cross lab was tearing the wood off my 8ft gates to get in . I went out and shooed him away not nasty just go home boy go on . He looked at me and the next thing I knew he had my hand in his mouth .
I will never forget the pain of that bite . he tore a piece of my palm right off and was not intending to let go .
my son heard me screaming and ran out and let a flying kick at him and broke his jaw.
I had to have a graft . Alice went into labour early and had the most awfull time the first four puppies were born dead.
The vet said it was because she was so agitated at me being attacked and slamming herself off the gates trying to get to me . she had traumatised herself and the puppies so much she would hardly raise them . She dident I did all nine of them with a badly injured hand . I had to pay a lot of money for help and all because a dog owned by some b!!!!!! was vicious and allowed to run free.
All I can think of now when I hear of someone being attacked is the fright and the awful pain they suffer . I only got one bite , imagine two of them tearing at your skin and you not knowing if your going to make it .
You may as well be in the jungle if thats how people raise their dogs sorry no excuses or sorrow will replace their skin .

Oh Mari, I'm so sorry that happened to you and Alice :( :( :( It must have been absolutely terrible for you to go through that. :(
sara

Hi Patbee,

I can see your point also but, we all have to learn from these things and if some people air their views more strongly it is sometimes because the post affects them more and their breed so they are a bit more passionate about it and remember written words are always more harsher.

"Should" is a valuble word and althought yes I agree it wont help the victim or the owner of the dogs in this case it may help others or make others realise that it is so so important to have insurance cover etc.

From the original post I can see clearly that the money issue is or appears to be the worrying factor here so that is what some have mention the need for insurance etc.

All threads not just this one bring additional comments that is why we read them so much.

At the end of the day I just hope the victim can move on from this and that the owner can accept, deal with and move on from this also.

PS Morning to you all.

Pam

Good morning Pam
I think you are right that written words can sound harsher. Its not that I dont have sympathy for the owner, its just that I have more sympathy for the victim and the dogs, and also for the breed/owners/future owners, who will all be affected directly or indirectly by someones mistake.

Regards Mick

Hi Pam.
Thanks for your calming reply. As a newbie dog owner and lover it can sometimes be very daunting and I personally try my very best to do the right things. This site has been the most useful source of information and advice but the undertones can be very off putting. That said, thankyou to everyone who has ever offerred advice (that includes you Steve) and sorry, I was having a c**p day yesterday.

(I meant Mick not Steve)

Hello Pat
Welcome. We all have crap days. I got my share of undertones so to speak when I first joined. They are a good lot with their hearts in the right places, with plenty of good advice.
The thing to do is to read all posts on any questions you have and take the answers that relate best to you

All the best Mick. Hope you have a better day today.

Thanks Mick,
Actually I am having a crapper day than ever but I vented on other drivers on the way into work!!! They all think (at work) I'm a quiet person who wouldn't say boo to a goose! The issues I have in my private life at the moment would fill a full site, thank goodness I have my beautiful dog who just exudes love and makes everything seem sunny.
Pat.

Pat,

I can agree there my dogs have got me through so much..

Pam

Pat , If you knew me you would not for one minute think me harsh .
I am just so very angry with people who have dogs that attack.
My bullmastiffs and my sharpei are the sweetest natured dogs any one can have, never a fight , no jealousy . In fact my puppy Sharpei nearly lost her life as she thought all dogs were the same as hers at home.
Can you imagine when I take those old slobs out and they want to stop and get a pat on the head from everyone and go gooey eyed over a child.
Then someone coming towards you starts saying hold them hold them dont let them near me
You know then this is a person that has been attacked or at least bitten or witnessed an attack.
I feel so sorry for those people as they are missing out on a friendship second to none .
Then you look in on the board and lo and behold someone is asking advice on what to do because their dogs have torn a womans skin away .
I feel very justified being angry as I love the bones of my dogs and I do not want them put in danger.
I am not short of grief myself Pat so I can relate to anyone suffering in any way at all. I hope yours is not too bad
.I am one of the first to make people feel at ease because I too walked the gauntlet .
I was almost accused of being a druggie by a former member.
I bet you want to know how . :) :) I would not be posting here either if it was not for Val and John and Lorraine
I compare this board with going to live in a new area and taking the time to get know people and giving them the chance to get to know you as well
You get to know them all then especially when you have troubles or lose a beloved dog
I can only compare the empathy and concern to a surge of warmth coming at you from the screen
Now and then you will see a topic come up that upsets and angers us and it is sometimes hard to keep out of it.
Hasent there been enough of attacks ,enough children killed or mutilated
enough dogs P.T.S. that those people would have learned to be responsible and respect the animals they have chosen to live with.
Think about it Pat if it was your breed in danger how would you feel
Micks not long here and he was treated with suspicion due to the fact that he was mistaken for someone who often comes on posing as someone else to cause trouble.
He stuck in there [dident you mick] and left us all know he was a genuine dog lover and was into protecting them and willing to contribute sensible advice to that end.
I hope you will understand us a bit more now , :)
We are not the attackers Pat we are against the people that let it happen .
You know the old saying accidents do not happen they are caused.
Mari
Ps I hope this post sounds as it is meant kindly with a smiling nod now and then :) oh s!!! im no good at this

Mari you have said exactly what I believe a lot of us here think. I do feel sorry for people who have large dogs and I would hate people to become afraid of large breeds through the fault of foolhardy owners. I am just getting used to large dogs myself now thru walking my small dogs and it is lovely not to be afraid all the time. There are lots of people on here who must feel very sad about this posting as they too have large lovely dogs who are friendly, well behaved and much loved and I am so glad they are able to own them so we can ALL enjoy them. What an awful world it would be if they were not allowed through the thoughtlessness of their owners. Posts like this - with no thought at all for the victim mentioned - do not help the poster . If there had been a thought for the victim I am sure everyone would have been more sympathetic.

Sorry Mari this isnt just in reply to your posting, I just agreed with your post above and thought it the best place to put my two pennorth.

Gina

Thanks Sara and Gina
I am feeling a bit down as you know two lovely girls gone to the bridge and not an ounce of harm in them Just as Sharons matties and leigh and Lorraines were but at least we know they enjoyed life .short as dogs lives are .
Mari

Marie,
thats all we can give them the best life possible and I know yours are given just that.
Bec

I take it she didn't have pet insurance on them? If so then I think most carry £500,000 to £1m in liability

Wendy

SteveM
Have you revisited since your original post ?

Christine

Probably not maybe its a wind up. does anyone know if its true?

Mick