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Topic Dog Boards / Behaviour / Any Ideas
- By tenaciousT Date 26.03.07 13:06 UTC
I'm a bit embarassed to ask this but I want to approach it the right way.  Last night my 2yr old scottish terrier was lying on the couch and I went to move him so I could sit down.  The crabbit faced wee **** tried to nip me, I moved my hand so he caught my jumper.  It was a warning nip.  I got him off the couch by lifting the cover he was sitting on and put him in his own bed.  I've never had this in any form before and it shocked me.  The norm in my house is to let them on the sofa and moving them has never been a problem.  My oh laughed and said you tried to move him off his couch.  Any ideas on what to do would be gratefuly received.
- By Jeangenie [gb] Date 26.03.07 13:11 UTC
Attach a houseline to his collar so that you can move him without him being able to snap at you. It's your sofa, not his!
- By Gemini05 Date 26.03.07 13:14 UTC
Hi, I do not allow my dogs on the sofa, 1st reason because they are large breed of dogs and 2nd, I believe in the Alfa thing that dogs should know you are the boss. If a dog feels higher in the rank then you he will not normally obey the command and defend his space.

IMO I would suggest that you keep him off the sofa now and have him sleep in his own space (bed) as he may think that because he is allowed to sleep on sofa that he is higher rank then you.
Hope this helps but I am sure someone else will give you more advice.
P.S> I have used a water spray before to let my dogs know whos boss when they don't move when told, it worked for me!
- By morgan [gb] Date 26.03.07 13:28 UTC
i would imagine hes just trying it on to see if he can get away with it, you made sure he didnt by removing him anyway, so long as you get what you want (JJs advice is great) then im sure he will respect your instructions in future and if not then the couch will have be be forbidden to him.
- By Nikita [gb] Date 26.03.07 13:41 UTC
There's no rank involved - this is resource guarding, similar to dogs that get aggressive over food or toys.  You dog needs a solid 'off' command, until he has this I wouldn't let him on the sofa when he wants until you can be sure of getting him off when you need to - such as with a houseline, as Jeangenie suggested.  Set up training scenarios to work on the 'off', inviting him on the sofa then giving the command and luring him off with a treat.  Leaving that spot needs to be of higher value to him than staying there - use really good treats or a fun game if you have to, so that getting off the sofa isn't a bad thing.

It may be that long-term you can't let him on the sofa when you're on there - I have to do this with Soli, although she has an excellent 'off'.  If me or another dog tries to share a sofa (or my bed) with her she growls and gives a lip lift, but will get off as soon as I ask.  It's not ideal, but it's a great improvement; she used to bite without warning and wouldn't leave her spot, and I had to keep her shut out of my bedroom for safety.  I've done no "rank reduction" with her, only reinforcing her for leaving the sofa or bed; she now has constant access to my bedroom and the sofas, she gives me and the dogs enough warning that we have time to react properly, and she actually chooses not to lay on the main sofa - she lays on the smaller one and it works nicely.
- By ice_queen Date 26.03.07 13:43 UTC
Can you not get him off with a voice command?

My dogs are allowed on the sofa however when any human wants sofa space the dogs are given the commad "off" in which they (reluctantly) slide off the sofa looking at you for an inviet back up.

I would train your dog to go off by command.  some simple reward based training will work wonderfully for this :)
- By tenaciousT Date 26.03.07 14:17 UTC
Hi
thankyou all for your advice, there are a few good ideas here.  With the others dogs I say move and do a hand signal and they move out the way but he is the slowest lump of a dog you have ever seen.  He has a very very very long think about things before he does it, however he was pretty quick when he went to nip me.  Reading through these I will start with this gradually and encourage him off.  If that isn't working he will get the line on and be told to move if he doesn't move i'll move him using the line.  Lastly he'll be banned from the sofa.  I'm glad that from the replies I get the impression it's not really a major thing because I felt quite shocked when he did this.  I like the dogs sitting on the sofa with me and it would be a shame for this Cantankerous wee rascal to ruin it.
Laura
- By maisiemum [gb] Date 26.03.07 14:56 UTC
Just (gently but firmly) push him off the sofa and put him out the door with a sharp, "No" or whatever sound you use as an admonishment.  Balance it by stroking and praising when he behaves nicely to you.  Also deliberately do things like make him get off his part of the sofa so that you can sit there instead.  Encourage others (not those with a nervous disposition!) to do the same.  He needs to know that you're the boss and his being on the sofa is a big privilege that he must not be allowed to abuse!!!  You can also use your sofa as an area for grooming, cuddling and tummy tickling which is a fun way of letting him know who is in control.
- By Lindsay Date 26.03.07 15:55 UTC
It's very normal behaviour, even low ranking dog protect from higher ranking, so it's not got anything to do with rank as such :)

Of course it's not acceptable, so I'd basically "train" him out of it - it's fine to reward with a piece of tasty food as he gets down (even if you have to use
a long line to do so) because he will then probably be quite keen to get off the sofa, and this attitude will become a good habit :) If there is a problem with this
or you are unsure, dont continue - get in a reputable behaviourist or trainer (try www.apdt.co.uk for start).

I take it he's OK otherwise as you've not mentioned anything?

There is a slight possibility that an adult dog whose behaviour changes without obvious cause,  has a medical problem (there are many that we can't see) so if it continues I'd suggest a thorough vet check with blood tests etc.

Good luck

Lindsay
x
- By tenaciousT Date 26.03.07 16:52 UTC
Hi Lindsay
I don't think there's anything wrong with him he's always been slow to do things since he was a puppy.  He's probally just got more balshie and thought i'm not moving, i'll give her a wee nip and that put her in her place.  He's the top dog and that's the antics he uses on them.  I'll have to work on this and as you say train him out of it and make sure he realises the sofa is a Privilege.  He doesn't give me any bother. 
Laura
- By tenaciousT Date 26.03.07 16:17 UTC
Hi maisiemum
I had a go at this, he was on the sofa and got off very quickly when I told him to and I sat on the spot he was on then I encouraged him to come back on and gave him a cuddle and a tummy rub.  Can't say he enjoyed the cuddle he was a bit stiff and was looking at me as if I was a total pain because I made him move.  I imagine i'll get wee surprises from him now and then because he's different from the rest as he is more stoic.
If anyone else replies and I don't comment quickly it's because i'm starting my 7 nightshifts tonight and i'm always chasing my tail.
- By Beardy [gb] Date 26.03.07 18:30 UTC
If he likes his treats you could also throw a treat onto the floor & tell him 'off'. That way you are not confronting him & asking for a nip, he gets a treat for getting off & you can sit in a nice warm spot! (when you have finished your night shifts)!! Sounds like a typical terrier to me. I am sure he thought it was worth a try! Little devil!
- By Joany Date 27.03.07 06:34 UTC
Hi Laura

Always just had the one dog at a time so probably not in the best position to advise, especially not having experienced this problem.  He is 'just fine and comfortable so why should I move'.  I am sure the suggestions given are good.  Your Scot sounds typical the word stoic describes them well but they are great pals.  My wee chap can be full of fun but when you come down in a morning or return home the best greeting you get is 'do I really have to get out of my bed'.  Mind the rest of the time he is never far away, and probably the most important thing in their character is they are so eager to please but being terriers I think you have to keep up the training. I am sure with all the good advice you have been given everything will be fine.  Love them to bits

Joany
- By Lillith [gb] Date 27.03.07 10:58 UTC
I would not use any kind of physical coercion in these circumstances.  Use a house line until you can train him with the "off" command.

Dogs do not understand why we want them off the sofa - have you ever seen one dog move another one off a sofa?  That's why we need to train them and get them used to the idea that it will be required of them.  Your dog was probably confused by being pushed off and I would guess that he was stiff when you cuddled him because he was waiting for you to try the same again, as he can no longer understand your behaviour.

If you get into pushing and pulling, you are just asking for things to escalate.  If he decided to resist you with his teeth - what would you do then?
- By Daisy [gb] Date 27.03.07 11:56 UTC
One reason why I didn't let mine on the sofa (older dog does come up occasionally now by invitation - OH's fault :D ) was that my inlaws had a CKS that 'ruled' the sofa. If he was on it, no-one dared sit anywhere near him - one person could sit right at the other end if they were lucky :( :( They had just 'allowed' it to happen and he was never disciplined and ruled the house :( :( IMO dogs don't need to sit on a sofa/chair - they are quite happy on the floor, particularly if they have never known anything different :D

Daisy
- By Lori Date 27.03.07 14:05 UTC
Oh but a dog blanket in the winter is wonderful Daisy! ;-) I slide under mine when it's cold and snuggle in. :-D
- By Daisy [gb] Date 27.03.07 16:44 UTC

> Oh but a dog blanket in the winter is wonderful Daisy!  I slide under mine when it's cold and snuggle in.


Oh, I agree :) But I have enough problems with dog hair everywhere without sitting in it and I also don't like my guests sitting in it either :) Also, I am a scrooge and like my furniture to last as long as possible :)

Daisy
- By tenaciousT Date 27.03.07 19:46 UTC
hi thankyou all for your comments, I have enjoyed reading them.  I will definately proceed with caution, he has the sofa for the rest of the week anyway so the lazy lump will be happy.
cheers
Laura
- By Tenaj [gb] Date 29.03.07 09:13 UTC
Our dogs love the sofa and look so comfortable so so as not to upset them we bought those massive doggie bean bags for us to use!

I better add a wink!... Okay that is only half true!  ;)  Anyway you got very good advice so far... good luck. :cool:
Topic Dog Boards / Behaviour / Any Ideas

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