would you consider the "1st day of the season" to be the 1st day that the boys start to notice a bitch coming in season (even though no outward signs atall) or the 1st day of actual bleeding?

I would say the first day of colour but it is obviously just a guide because you don't really know what the hormones have been doing up to then and perhaps just not tipping the balance to give you something to actually see and every bitch is going to ovulate within a fairly wide margin anyway.  So really, take your pick :)

1st day of real colour.

When are they fertile, day 1 or later? I ask because 1 of my 2 will have to be done (girl Dobe, boy Whippet) and I think it will have be the bitch, not the dog as I have no intention on breeding from her. My vet will not operate until she's had her season, which is soon. She or he will have to go into kennels or drive us mad with crate swopping I guess, until she's in the clear because we can't be having any long legged, brindled Dobe puppies. How long will that be too? Yes, I have ordered The Book of the Bitch, but in the meanwhile, could somebody please kindly fill me in.

Some are *fertile* as you put it earlier than others, if you run a search on here on past threads you'll see some bitches are ready day 7/8, some as late as day 18 etc some even later- then there's my own who go for the happy medium:-)

If I was you I'd farm him out- she'd cause too much of an uproar at kennels being in season- she'd be very popular ;-) :-D  And as for the crate swapping- unless you have two crates I wouldn't recommend that either just incase- afterall you'll have to get one out while you're putting the other in- hence they're both together however brief :-)

Stacey x

First day of showing colour.  First day my lads showed any interest was when my girls were ready to be mated, and day 13 of the season with my only girl to be mated, both times.  As has been said before, they are all different.

Lisa

Thanks for that all. I did think it would have to be him into kennels for just the reasons Stacey said. it would of been nice for it to of been the bitch though because I don't walk her during her season and she so needs her run out. It's a shame I can't get her done now and avoid all the hastle and expense, but I think the vet worries about her bleeding heavily during the op and possibly passing away? I really should of bought another bitch and I could of avoided all this now. She's such a stunner too and has done well in the few shows she's been in, but I really don't want to breed.

Most people I know with both sexes find that you can manage with just vigilance the first week and send the boy to kennels then for two - 2 1/2 weeks.  when he comes back just do not leave them alone for another few days, and watch carefully until she reaches 28 days from the start.

Often first seasons are not as long as the ones after.

I always take it the first day of colour as my boys can tell a bitch is coming in a couple of weeks before.  I keep my girls at my house for the first 6 or 7 days but then they go to my parents after that.  Don't forget though that frequently my girls are mated at days 16/17 other breeds are mated much ealier.

This is not her first season though it will be her 4th and she does not bleed so heavily as the first. The vets are frightened to op now as I believe that they like to do it mid cycle? I'm an idiot, I should of done it as soon as we bought our boy puppy, but I was unsure of which to keep entire for showing and now it's to late.

If showing both then best to spay the bitch as it will not affect her chances in the ring, whereas a Boy with no nuts can be shown but will be disadvantaged.

You should definately wait until she is at least two months after her season, and any signs of false pregnancy (milk) are gone.

Thanks brainless. I didn't know you could still show a spayed bitch? I am pleased to say though that the lovely kennels that we use has said they'll take her and today she started to bleed, so this is it. The kennel guy is great and told me that his wife has 15 show Cockers and they all come in season, so my girl is not a problem at all for him at all. I will take the advice of champdogs though, as you're the guys that know and keep her here supervised until Monday,(hubby at home) then off she goes to the kennels. While she's away I'll try the little fella out, if I can find a small show that is and see how he goes. I didn't buy him as show quality, so perhaps he won't be any good, but it'll be fun to see. Thanks again all.

Yes, that's what I was going to say. :) You just have to inform the Kennel Club and you can show neutered dogs of either sex, but even so boys without testicles tend to be at a disadvantage. I've got friends with 3 spayed bitches and 2 of them are shown. :)