Well, I've finally had the "he only wants to play"  experience, and I'm SO annoyed!! I've moved Heaven and Earth to get my dog so well trained that she IGNORES other dogs; and this other dog just kept PESTERING her; and bless her, she kept her eyes FIXED on me, but started snarling and grumbling at the other dog to GET OFF her! So finally, when I saw the owner thought this was funny, I swiped my lead at his dog and stamped my foot at it and said "GET OFF!!"; at which the owner got all huffy and said "There's no need to be rude"!! and put his dog on the lead and stomped off!  I called after him "I just don't want your dog to get bitten" but he was gone...

And THEN, because it was sunny, I left Foxy in the garden when we got back from our walk, and about 10 minutes later, this woman from up my street started loitering outside my garden fence, with her 2 dogs, which started Foxy barking excitedly, and the woman hung around for a bit, then came and RANG MY DOORBELL to tell me "Your dog sounds distressed!!"
And I wouldn't mind so much, but I happen to see her walking the dogs in the mornings before work, and then again in the afternoon and I really think she leaves them alone all day!! whereas Foxy is never alone for more than 2 hours...

God, I feel better for a good rant!!

well foxy was good in that situation a testament to all your hard work, ive hit dogs with leads before to get them away (on theor bums) if i have needed too.

As for that other woman, well she was winding her up??????????

Were you in a suitable safe place to allow Foxy to have a play with the other dog? Perhaps that would have defused the situation and all could have parted on good terms. :)

Thanks Michelle,
I was quite proud of her actually, because a few months ago she would definitely have dived at a dog like that with all guns blazing...
And just for the record, I didn't actually HIT the other dog with the lead, I just swiped in front of its face, but thoseStaffies are stubborn little buggers, and he just wouldn't take no for an answer.
I don't know WHAT that woman was on...maybe she feels guilty coz HER dogs are alone all day (if they are...)
JG,
Yes, it was an open space and they were both off-lead but Foxy is VERY selective with which dogs she wants to play with. Since I sent her to BC Holiday Camp, she LOVES other collies...but she doesn't much like other dogs - at least SHE leaves them alone tho...

Some people have no choice but to go to work.  At least her dogs get walked twice a day (even though I admit she behaved pretty stupidly). You are very lucky if you can afford to be at home with them.  I know you may say, "Well don't get a dog if you work", but in my case, if we hadn't they would both be dead by now - they were both rescued strays and we did not have a choice.  We have always rescued animals that needed a home as we have no children of our own.  They get the very best care when we are at home, and we have put our social life on hold so that we can spend as much of our free time as possible with them.  They also go away with us on our holidays.  If I could give up work tomorrow so that I could spend all day with them I would, so please don't judge. 

You let it alllllllllll out!!!

I really do feel for you. I've lost count the amount of times that has happened to me. We've had dogs running the whole length of huge fields to get to us. It's always followed with the "aww he only wants to play" whilst my dog is trying to run away, tail firmly between legs with a big bouncy dog jumping all over her :rolleyes: I'm thinking about wearing a t-shirt with "no, she doesn't want to play" written all over it.

Mine just doesn't "get" other dogs unless its another pastoral breed. Whereas she just LOVES people. So our training is always getting her to ignore people when she is off lead, which is a challenge. I'm also sick of these dogs coming over, stealing our ball and running away with it. Whilst waiting for the owner to run all over the field chasing their dog in order to return the ball to us. Only for them to release the dog for it to happen again :rolleyes: Mean while my dog is sat at my side with the saddest look on her face waiting for her ball back.

Have to confess -  yelling out "he/she bites" or "he/she isn't good with other dogs" <--- they always assume it means they will bite, whilst their dog is running over certainly gets the owner moving at a rather fast pace to retrieve their dog hehehe. The irony is mine doesn't have a single aggressive bone in her body. She's never ever told another dog off - no growling or teeth bared. She just runs aways.

I tend not to hang around Skyblue22 - if my dog is not wanting to play with another dog that has run up and is paying attention to me, I just start walking - up to the other person to come and collect their dog from wherever I end up!  Have to say that most dogs give up when they see our backs turned. :-)

The reason the dogs usually come over is because we are playing with our dogs giving them attention whereas these other dogs usually (not all) are left to thier own devices. :)

Or perhaps the other owner is allowing his dog some 'me-time' to socialise with his own species in his own language. ;) After all, the new Animal Welfare Act requires owners to allow their animals to 'exhibit normal behaviour patterns'.

Mixing with other dogs is so important but I find it is so hard to get the "me-time" right Jeangenie. Our 17 month GR loves to meet and play with other dogs but I find it really hard to guage whether other dogs and their owners want their dog to socialise as well. I usually go by whether they put their dog back on it's lead when they see us approaching - if they do then I put mine back on (but always put him back on if the other dog is small or elderly as he is still very enthusiastic) and if they don't then I tend to leave him off lead as well.

When he was younger I always put him back on his lead but found he was then even more interested in wanting to go and greet the other dog and other dogs were becoming a focal point and a cause of great excitement. I also found that having only ever been off lead around other dogs that were willing to play he didn't seem to be able to read the signs given out by dogs that just weren't interested or really weren't keen on him approaching them. Having adopted the method of me reading the signs given off by the other owner and adjusting my actions accordingly I find that he now has a steady approach to other dogs and if he does a play bow and they are not interested he then just wanders off and leaves them alone.If they want to play then he is up and running and full of enthusiasm.

He is learning by experiencing encounters with all types of dog, with all types of temperaments and  is now quickly learning his own social manners. But then perhaps he is just growing up a bit now :)

Harley, ditto.
They are after all dogs and not humans. They need to learn the language of all canines and it's sad to see dogs that are never allowed off lead, purely because they were never allowed to interact as pups and therefore do not understand. By the time they are adult, they should be able to tell the difference to "approach and play" or "Clear off!!!" My girl will see a dog on lead and won't even bother, but if they are tearing about having a whale of a time, she will ask to play? In canine language of course.

so if my collie snapped at him if he was harassing her & failing to read her obvious body language who woild be at fault?

Imo you/your dog would be at fault,
but would be interested to know a opinion from the other side

i will just add,all my dogs are free to socailise with anyone they want to. & are EXCELLENT at reading dogs body laguage etc

so if my collie snapped at him if he was harassing her & failing to read her obvious body language who woild be at fault?

If it were my dog that was harassing yours, and yours had given the warning signals that he should back off, I would have intervened at the first sign of her discomfort as he approached her. If I failed to do this and your dog snapped at mine then I would see it as my fault for not intervening quicker and for keeping him on lead so much in order to not annoy other dog owners and thus preventing him from having enough opportunities  to learn to read the signals from a strange dog who was telling him to keep his distance. He has mixed with lots of dogs since early puppyhood - but always friendly ones and always by invitation.

If however your dog was off lead as well and just launched itself at my dog with no warning then I would probably be inclined to think that it was you at fault for not putting her on a lead if you knew she was likely to do this :)

there is no way on this earth that me dog would attack another dog or launch herself,as i said above she will give a "snap" as a last resort ,after trying out numorous other CLEAR behaviours to tell the dog to back off.
All she wants to do is to trundle along with me & not get harassed. If she DID like your dog then her body language would be completly different.

too add, i do normally take her collar when i know shes getting to the snapping bit, though by then shes usually moved herslf inbetwween my legs to try to get away.

Shes never made contact,& its a warning snap, but you never know

there is no way on this earth that me dog would attack another dog or launch herself,

Oh noooooooo - I wasn't implying that she would, just clarifying what I would consider as not my fault :) :) It is one of those areas that owners all see in a different light but am just trying my best to make sure he learns impeccable social manners which makes life so much nicer for everyone :)

cool!

Mmmmmm, and if I don't walk one of my dogs away she will exhibit some very "normal behaviour patterns" for canines but I don't think the owner of the other dog would like it much :-D

my dogs are very sociable got to agility /ob classes have lots of 'doggy friends' but if they are playing happily together all three of them and not in the slightest bit interested in other dogs barging thier way in trying to pinch thier balls I get annoyed as I would never allow my dogs to do this.

well if a dog CANT read another dogs body language, as this one couldnt read foxys (& i get it alot with Nellie,)then shouldt it be under closer control?

Time & time again (usually labs & spaniels) i get bouncing in Nellies face, she turns her back, they follow her around, she turns her head, they take no notice. she curls her lip , do they back off??? no. she growl;s loudly...makes no difference, so then she will snap! she has NEVER ever made contact, but it takes a snap to make these dogs stop (& sometimes not even then!!)

The inability to read other dogs' body language often comes from lack of practice, because so many dogs are kept away from others and prevented by well-meaning owners from learning. Catch 22.

catch 22 maybe,or a owners "neglect" first they neglect to socialise properally & then they "neglect" to keep their socially inept dog undercontrol. oh but whose fault is it if the other dog gets bitten? oh its the collies fault because it had given a billion back off cues that were all ignored,so it must be the nasty sharp collie

I have a problem with Tara :( She was 'bomb-proof- with other dogs until she hurt her foot. Then the months of enforced lead walking and having a very sore foot made her very wary of other dogs and I was devastated when she snapped and made contact (nothing major) with her 'best friend' :( I probably did the wrong thing, but I keep her on the lead if other dogs are around so that she doesn't have the opportunity to have a go (she only does it if dogs are 'in her face') :( :( It's difficult to think of asking people to give her a try off the lead with their dogs :( In summer evenings, during our break at agility, some of us take our dogs for a game of ball on the field and she never has a problem with other dogs who are just intent on playing with their ball. She is also fine when left off lead for an out of sight stay at obedience. Now we have bought a house with a field so that she can play, off lead, without having to cope with other dogs (except Bramble) :( Should we have done more to re-socialise her with other dogs ??

Daisy

it depends,she may have been like that anyway when she reached that age. will she have ago if shes left alone. My nell is a cow, but she would never start anything & infact goes to EXTREME lengths to keep out of the way, She does have her doggy friends,ones she chooses are worthy!!!

> she may have been like that anyway when she reached that age

True :) She only has a go if dogs approach her - she ddoesn't mind a quick sniff, but nothing more :) A few, small dogs belonging to neighbours are OK - she doesn't mind them (but I always keep a firm hold on the lead just in case - I just couldn't risk it). When waiting, at agility or obedience, she lies down in a very relaxed manner - she isn't at all bothered about the other dogs - just as long as they don't approach her. She can be in a sit/down/stand stay just a couple of feet from another dog with out problem. I would just love her to play with other dogs. She is obsessed with her ball and just doesn't seem interested  in other dogs now :(

Daisy

she sounds alot like nellie! they aint called bitches for nothing!
i dont mind a dog like that tbh, i prefer a dog like that than one with no manners.

Nellie suprised me last year,after 5/6 years of having just her "chosen" pals, suddenly taking 3 new boys under her wing & being a right hussey!!!!

Tara has the sweetest nature at home - she just loves cuddles and a real fuss :) She is always throwing herself on her back for a tummy tickle :) She would never make a serious obedience dog as she has a wicked sense of humour and will always do things HER way - real personality :D :D

Daisy

It's a very difficult judgement call for all owners. If their friendly dog only ever interacts with other friendly dogs it never learns how to read warning signals, because it never sees them. All dogs need to have meetings with dogs of all but the most savage temperament if they're to become fluent in 'canine'. It's not nice for an owner to see their beloved 'baby' being growled or snapped at by a strange dog, but it's a necessary part of socialisation.

My old girl has got quite intolerant of boistrous youngsters or over "sniffy" letharios and will shriek in their ears I'm afraid .  I have never yet had somebody not say something along the lines of "I don't blame her, he deserves telling, etc"  For that reason I don't make much of a fuss when a naughty dog comes over, anyway that would probably make her worse and if their manners are at all reasonable she will greet them politely enough and just move on. I suppose it helps that she does not have the appearance of something that would not do any harm but I do think most owners have an understanding that these interactions are all part of dog social life.

Ah, I remember that 'old lady scream' - very effective it is too, and with the benefit of doing no harm! :D It's exactly the sort of encounter that helps dogs learn what canines consider to be good manners and only damaging the bumptious dog's ego. :)

My Kizi is getting like that at 9 1/2.  She has always thought highly of herself and expected to be treated with respect. 

She has been really quite the grumpy granny with the latest pups. 

She was always Rather authoritarian with her own pups and ignored anyone Else's, but this time she was quite pissy with them. 

With the one that has stayed she would really growl at her if she so much as came near her.  She has finally mellowed after the pup learnt to grovel a bit, and I caught her playing with her in the last week or two, but only by invitation.

Her own Grandma Jozi has become principle playmate, as she was always a bit of a trial to the others when she was young it is payback time :D

I'm hearing you skyblue22! 

I had two experiences like that at the weekend as my dog is also very selective with who she wants to play with. 1st time we just got out the car and a large black dog ran across barking at her.  i had my dog (staffy) on a lead and the owners who had two others that were in hot pursuit of the barking one said "it's ok, he won't bite" - doh but mine might. 

The 2nd was a man with 2 dogs (boxer and westie) and only 1 lead.  the boxer is aggressive and the westie kept trying to hump missy (my dog).  After asking him nicely to make any sort of attempt to get control of his dog I told him that as mine has a bad back just now she is more likely than ever to tell his dog to get lost and not be particularly polite about it.  his response was that a nip would teach his dog a lesson - but he got the message when I informed him that if missy bit his dog it would involve a large chunk out of his dog and a very expensive trip to the vets.

Bring back the horrible weather and rainy weekends when you get the park to yourself and aren't surrounded by fair weather walkers. 

Lots of fair weather walkers around here too Cheekychow:rolleyes:
Funny how you never see them when its winter mornings when I,m out 5.30 before work but now the lighter mornings are here they are coming out of the woodwork,

Thanks everyone for all your replies;

Maisiesmum: My point was only that the woman had no right to comment on my dog's distress levels - it's not as if Foxy howls 18 hours a day every day; she only started barking when the woman and her dogs arrived, about three minutes before she rang my bell..

Lillith: Thanks so much for that excellent advice!! Why didn't I think of that?? Sorted!!

i find that 90% of dog owners dont know what "normal canine behavior" is, they associate any barking or running fast or contact with "agression" and  sometimes its easier just to avoid them, to the detriment of my dogs enjoyment i know. its a shame but when youve a a big bouncy dog you do have to be aware of possible misunderstandings. I have been looked at with horror as my dog play bowed, barked and pranced around another dog on many occcasions in the past and ive had enough of their faces and do my own thing now and just meet up with a few select friends dogs.sorry if i seem bitter!:rolleyes:

morgan you don't come across as bitter but my dog generally comes across as a biter when other dogs run at her, bark at her or try to hump her.

I'm always very conscious of the 'devil dog' tag that gets attached to staffys and other usual suspect breeds and I  take precautions to ensure that I always have control of my dog as I know what her unchecked reaction is likely to be. 
I would look at you in horror when your dog barked and pranced near mine as I know that the next thing that will happen is mine launching herself at your dog and me having to get involved in breaking up a fight.  So it is easier to keep away from some people.  I'm not having a go at you but highlighting the other side of the situation from a stroppy dog owners perspective.

Just let them get on with being dogs. When you think about it, dogs also pee up lamp posts and then queue behind each other enthusiasticly, to do the same.....and some? In our polite human society I would doubt that it would be considered an acceptable act would it, without you being very, very drunk? But shakeing hands and smiling at each other, which a dog would see as aggression is? I wonder what dogs think of us and our very strange ways?

like Sunday drivers :)

Now come on....you are in polite company:rolleyes:

my reply was to cheekchow and fair weather walkers dont know how it ended up here!

I had a bad experience to day when walking my 3 boys. We were coming back from a lovely walk, I stopped at the cash point (so it could laugh at me :D) when a man with a (large) yorkie came marching over saying 'ooh your dogs are lovely are they girls or boys?' before I had a chance to answer the yorkie absolutely flew at my boys snarling and growling, lips curled right back, missing my boys faces by millimetres. All the while the owner was LAUGHING saying 'she's a bit bossy with the boys!' I was trying to tell him to move his dog away while frantically trying to pull my card out of the machine so I could get away. My boys were so shocked they just stood there looking offended! I eventually got away and walked home on the other side of the road. Just down the road owner and dog were terrorising yet another innocent dog and owner. Bossy? It was possessed!

There might be good reasons for only walking in daylight pavlova!

I only walk Soli in daylight - because she needs to be let off to run (she becomes very hard to control otherwise, no self-control), and I MUST be able to see any approaching dogs, as well as wherever she is.  Even if I do keep her on lead I still prefer to do it in the light - because my sight isn't good enough in the dark to see other dogs approaching from far enough away that I can get the treats out to work on her reactions.

So while I've no doubt there are people who are just lazy, I also reckon a lot of them will have good reason for walking when they do!

Funny how you never see them when its winter mornings when I,m out 5.30

If I am walking my dog at 5:30 on a winters morning I never see other dog walkers either - mainly because it is too dark to see anything much at all except for the flashing lights on my dog's collar :D

The better weather always brings out more dog walkers - but at least the dogs that belong to the fair weather walkers are benefitting from it :)

I think somebody may have thought I was an annoying dog owner today.

Where I walk my dog there is a little footbridge across a stream into the woods.  I waited one side of the bridge with my dog to allow another person across - all at the same time four other dogs that I have seen over the park on several occasions all ran to see me and mine - two of them know that I have sausages in my pocket and two were just nosey. That meant I was standing on my own with five dogs off lead - one more coming towards me and my dog happily running round the outside of the circle making sure all the dogs were sitting!!!

Then a lady with two pups decided to walk past us and the looks she gave me I could have been put five feet under the ground!!!  She must have been thinking I was a real pain with so many off lead dogs but if she had looked behind her she would have seen all the other owners running towards me to try and get their dogs back....:) :) :)   

lol!  I've been the annoying owner today too, at least in my eyes :p

I was walking Opi and Soli through the woods, taking care to avoid other dogs (luckily the others there were noisy so I could hear where they were!), when we came to a fork in the trail and I spotted a little dog walking with its owners.  Called Soli as happy as I could and offered lots of cheese, but she clocked it when she got halfway to me - knowing how she usually reacts I got very worried and went to grab her, but she ran to see it.  But bless her furry feet, she didn't bark once - didn't even grumble!  And he hackles were only up a little bit :)

But I still felt terrible, the dog I'd seen was - it turned out - a 4 month old cavvy boy that's scared of other dogs.  So of course he ran away a little way along the trail when my two monsters bounded up to him :( I apologised profusely to the owners, but they were actually very nice about it - the omwan actually said she wished he'd want to meet other dogs more.  I asked if she'd tried puppy classes, she said she'd taken him to a pup training class but he'd just been scared of every dog there.  I suggested they try again - and explained about why Soli is how she is, and that Opi was exactly the same as their pup when she first came home, but she got over it and then some!  In the end the other owner had to carry him off as he wouldn't go past mine, even after I'd got Opi to stop trying to sniff him (had hold of Soli then), I said sorry again and we parted ways.  So today I'm the bad one :rolleyes:

But I'll admit I'm secretly very, very pleased with Soli, she was marvellous :D

But I'll admit I'm secretly very, very pleased with Soli, she was marvellous 

And, in my book, you have every reason to be proud :)  I had a proud day today as well. First we encountered an off lead lab carrying half a tree in his mouth, Harley approached him at a bound to begin with and then slowed and just stood wagging his tail until the other dog approached him. They had a quick sniff of each other while the owner and I exchanged good mornings and then we both went on our separate ways. Harley stood watching them go, still wagging his tail, until I whistled him to join me when he returned instantly. :)

We met the same lab later on in our walk and Harley did a play bow and then beserk running through the trees (not near the dog or it's owner) while the other dog totally ignored him and it's owner stood looking on in amazement as Harley did a slalom course through the woods at break neck speed trying to entice the other dog to chase him. He quickly realised the lab just wasn't interested and so ambled back to me as I continued my walk.

But what made me feel really proud was an encounter with a little hairy crossbreed called Ella who came rushing up to us barking her head off, didn't respond at all to her owner (been there myself :D) and Harley thought she wanted to play. She turned round and bolted off with her tail between her legs looking petrified with a large exuberant GR in hot pursuit. I called him and he stopped chasing her instantly and returned to me. Now that did make me feel proud :)

Fantastic, well done Harley! :D

> my dog happily running round the outside of the circle making sure all the dogs were sitting!!!

Your Herding dog doing his job :) :D

You'd never see me out walking mine at 5:30 even in the summer! You do mean 5.30  as in am!  ....such a time exists!  

You'd never see me out walking mine at 5:30 even in the summer! You do mean 5.30  as in am!  ....such a time exists!  

:D :D :D Once my children had grown up I vowed not to see that time of day again if I could help it but on days when I know I am going to be pushed for time it is one of the time slots I can guarantee won't have been marked down for anything other than snoring so is, reluctantly, reserved for dog walking :D

In the summer it is a great time to be out and about. :)