Bonnie is now coming up to 8 months. I have posted before about toilet training and have been trying very hard but she is still sometimes going indoors. I take her out regulary and praise and make a fuss of her when she goes. The main time she goes in the house is in the morning, but not always. This morning my OH went down at 6.45 and she had weed on the floor and done a poo, which she had carried onto the rug and was eating ( this eating of poo used to happen a lot but now only occasionally) I know she can hold it quite a long time because at the W/E we may not go down until 8.30 and she hasn't been. She doesn't yet seem to have much idea that it should be done outside, despite lots of praise when she does. I sometimes think the only reason she happens to go outside at all is because I take her out so often -that's how it feels at the moment anyway! It's difficult to show any disapproval when she goes indoors because we rarely see her doing it. She does tend to go in the same place in the kitchen so this morning I have washed the floor with hot water and white vinegar. I think that over time some of the wee has gone under the plinth at the base of the cupboards, but to get this off means partly dismantling the cupboard . I think we will have to do this though to make sure that it's 'scent free' under there because maybe that's why she is doing it there. It's getting a bit tiresome now and I don't think we could take her away with us at the moment. Sorry that this is such a long post but I really need some help with this one. I am home with her all day and have put all my time into toilet training her so any suggestions would be gratefully considered!!!

I am not an expert on this, but we have toilet trained both our dogs in a few days.
First of all I have  put their bed in a fairly confined space, (this dog a crate, the dog we had before in a corner of the kitchen, behind a gate) and shut them in to spend the night or any significant unnattended time, until properly trained.
Dogs do not like to mess their beds, normally, so they will try not to. Before putting the pup into the confined place, I always took them outside, on a lead, to make sure they toilet, as they start to pee/poo, i always said 'hurry up, good dog', to train them to go on command. I would be careful never to leave the pup shut up too long, even at night, to try to avoid accidents. I also would take them out to perform after eating.
Any accidents need to be cleaned up immediately, using a cleaner available from pet shops which neutralises the odour - I suspect vinegar would not do the job. I would try and clean under your cupboard with it too.
When the dog is not in its bed, you need to be watching like a hawk, the first sign of squatting, circling etc, put pup on the lead, and out in the garden.
I always put them on the lead for this, to be sure they actually did what I took them out for, not get distracted and running around playing, until after they'd done their business.
I would certainly not show disapproval if your dog accidentally goes indoors, even if you see her doing it, i would just scoop her up quickly and take her outside to finish.
hope this helps, a bit. One last thought, she has been checked out at the vet to ensure no urinary problems I assume? It is awkward if you can't take her anywhere reliably, as most people would not be very sympathetic to this in their house. Good luck.

Not sure about cleaning up with vinegar - I know you should avoid anything that has ammonia in it such as household disinfectants because this can actually encourage your dog to wee in the same place.

Try cleaning the area where she toilets indoors with warm water and biological washing powder instead. I have heard people recommend that you add some pineapple to a dog's food as it discourages them from eating their own poo but have never (so far ) had this problem so not sure how effective it is.

I expect you have already done so but if not a trip to the vet to rule out any health problems as a cause for this problem might be a good idea.

I personally wouldn't show any disapproval if you caught her going indoors as it probably wouldn't stop her but encourage her to hide where she is toileting indoors which would be even worse. If she senses any disapproval from you it will make the problem worse as she may well become anxious over toileting. As hard as it is I would just clean up after her without any fuss at all and go back to basics and start all over again. Taking her out after meals, waking from sleep, playing etc and make a huge fuss of her when she performs in the garden. Choose a word that she can associate with the act of toileting - we used the word busy - and as she is actually performing quietly say the word and praise her. I used to give our pup a treat when he had finished and still do now when he goes out for his last toilet break of the evening. It may also be worth your while to set your alarm for early morning - say 5:30 or so - and take her out then for a wee in order to break the habit of her going indoors, so you are forestalling an accident from happening.

Stay calm and relaxed with her ( difficult to do I know) and she will eventually get there. :)

I know how you feel but 8 months is still very young so please don't panic.  I know it sounds a pain, but you have to keep an eye on her at all times.  As soon as you catch her doing her toilet in the wrong place, make a noise - ah ah ah and pick her up swiftly and put her in the garden. I know the problem has probably passed but it's your way of telling her where she should do her business.  If it's difficult to keep an eye on her, attach a long line to the belt on your trousers so that she is always somewhere around you.  You also need to work out the places that she is constantly going in and make these places off limits for your dog - especially when you can't be there to watch her.  What you want is to break the habit i.e. that place in the kitchen.  Literally block it off fromher because she has it fixed in her mind that this is a toilet area!  The other thing some trainers recommend is to get her doing her business on command.  It's not something that I have done brilliantly successfully, but if I take Maisie out after a long drive and say "busy busy" she goes immediately.  She soon began to establish that outside was the place to go.  I did this by saying, "busy busy" in a high pitched voice everytime I took her out to wee.  In fact, I always made a point in taking her out to wee on a lead so that I could establish her behaviour.  

Again, don't worry - it does take time.

Don't panic, as maisiemum says, 8 months is still very young.  Jasper also a golden still occasionally did a poo in the house at 8 months, he didn't wee though.   It's not always possible to catch them in the act, but if you do then a loud NO and take them outside seemed to work.

From different books I've read it is normal for dogs to eat poo (sounds disgusting I know) and if you add pineapple to their food this is supposed to stop them eating it - I don't know if this works but I have read it a few times!  Might be worth checking this with the vet though as if they eat poo I think it could be something that she is lacking in her diet!

And for cleaning the area, I used bio washing liquid and then afterwards good old domestos and hot water!

 

Are you taking her out after she wakes from sleeping, after playing, and after her meals? As this is the very foundation of good toilet training :)

Next I'd advise not just praising her for going but making it really worthwhile - give her an extremely tasty home made food treat (by home made, I mean NOT some winalot treat, which isn't very high value to most dogs, but something like liver, chicken, sausage etc). Give her this as, (if she will let you) or just after she has done her business.

Eating her poo may mean she's nervous of you finding her with it - is she OK about pooing and weeing in front of you and others in the house? Sometimes pups will eat poo if they are worried that poo + owner presence = being told off, so for that reason alone I'd not advise telling off if found after toileting. A gentle "ah, ah" if actually doing it ( I dislike the phrase "caught in the act" as it is a natural biological thing that is happening) and this should interrupt, take outside and be with her and praise.

Some dogs can hold quite well through the day but not always first thing in the morning - also when meals are given can make a big difference, so also bear this in mind as it may help if this is slightly adjusted...

If it goes on and you are doing all this, I'd suggest a vet visit and a reputable behaviourist as housetraining problems can be very hard to sort out. You can get problems such as "preferred surface" etc so if it goes on, get a professional in to help!

Good luck :)

Lindsay
x

The poo eating is likely and attempt to hide what she has done as she knows it dispelases you.

In this situation I would crate her overnight to break the cycle as she should be able to last (my 12 week pup can go from 11pm to 8am).

I would also crate her whilst you can't give her your full attention (says she who left pup in kitchen while changing upstairs and she peed ).

Does she show signs of seperation anxiety. i.e. does she do it when you leave her alone.

Many dogs will urinate when excited/stressed, so it could be she gets over excited when she hears you coming.

Thanks for all the helpful suggestions. I feel that toilet training has been done 'to the book' and she is not my first dog so do have something to compare her with. As regards eating her poo, this is now much less frequent. We had her at 8wks and she did this from the start so I think she must have been copying her mum? She has always been 'gently' told off for this to show disapproval, maybe a sharp 'NO bonnie!' but nothing more extreme. I must say it is not a frequent thing now but has happened 2 days in a row. Maybe she's just hungry as both days were before breakfast! She is fed JWB with added scraps, occasional raw carrot, odd chicken wing now and again, so don't think she's lacking any nutrients--looks the picture of health. Last night I blocked off the area she has been using to toilet in the kitchen after giving it a thorough wash with bio washing powder. I have been really enthusiastic with my praise when she toilets outside, saying 'busy busy' in  a buzzy bee sort of way so it sounds quite different from anything else I say. I am also rewarding her with hot dog sausage which she seems to like.
This morning I came down about 6.15 am- she was awake and out of bed but had not been to the toilet. Took her outside and she did her wee but wasn't exactly busting cos she had a good old look around first. No sign of anything else happening so put her back in kitchen but left back door open that leads onto little area outside the house that she uses. Went upstairs with the tea, down again about 6.45 and Bonnie had pooped outside but decided to bring a bit in for breakfast! Well at least she did it outside!
Just been to buy some tinned pineapple to try!
She's a beautiful girl in all ways other than this so will persevere with all your suggestions.Thanks!

A change of diet might be worth a try.  A friend of mien had this poop eating problem on one food, and on a different one it stopped altogether.  It could be that she isn't digesting it as well as she might so it is still of nutritional value to her so worth recycling.

Some bitches can have a problem with the bladder where they cannot hold themselves and can even pee in thier sleep it can be a medical problem called ectopic ureter or she may have a little water infection,  if training isnt working I would get her checked out to be sure.
One of my bitches is 8m and she occasionally eats my other dogs p** (not her own)  I make sure the area is always cleared up immediately after they have all toileted (have 3 )to prevent her eating it .
I have had a male dog who did this when he was a puppy he grew out of it... tried the pineapple and water gun etc cleaning the area worked the best and he  grew out of it so I dont concern myself
about it anymore. :)