Hi All,

I've been doing some great recall training with Roxy who - when on the long line - is absolutely 100% reliable....to a point of turning immediately when we call and sitting well in front of us. In class - were we've gone back to basics - she's a complete star to a point where she's an example to the rest of the class

This is all well and good, but I think she's got rather wise to doing precisely what she wants when she know's she's not on a long lead . We do recalls on the long line before we let her off, just to remind her and and always praise her very highly when she does come back - even after throwing a deaf'un. We have really high value treats which we suspect that even when she's ignored us she's previously got - mistakenly on my part I suspect in an attempt to lure her back to us she's realised 'do what I damn well please and still get the treat. Result!'. So apart from only giving a treat when she immediately returns to us what else can we do? We do hide it games, scream like banshees, run in opposite directions to no avail. I want her to have a good run so I want to let her off.

My husband and I are pretty much at a loss what to do. I know she's learnt to associate the park with 'hooilganism' I just don't know how to break it - does anyone have any advice or have overcome this?

Thanks

>I know she's learnt to associate the park with 'hooilganism' I just don't know how to break it - does anyone have any advice or have overcome this?

The trite answer would be to take her somewhere other than the park, but that's not really solving your problem. My next thought would be to try, after a couple of recalls on the long line, clipping a short line onto her collar before you take off the long line to let her loose, so that she still thinks she's on the lead. It's possible that she's associated the unclipping as the signal to let her hair down.

It's not such a trite answer JG - if you can get the behaviour established in other outdoor locations first and then work on it in the park ... ?

My friend was told, apart from leaving a short line on the dog, to carry a piece of line so that if the dog glanced back it would see the line in the owner's hand.  Unfortunately neither suggestion worked in her case :rolleyes: she wasn't fooled!

I think this is a problem of park-style exercise, where the dog is pretty much pleasing itself, having a "good run" and then the owner comes along and spoils it.  There are relatively few distractions in the training class (once the whole other dog thing is out of the way) but there are lots and lots of more interesting things to be explored when you are out, which is why you have the got the result in one location but not the other - yet.

I wonder if it would help if you were interacting with her more generally?  Do you do bits of training whilst out in the park - apart from recalls?  Does she like to play with toys?

Over the last 6 weeks or so, we've started going to two different parks, one of which we take a varied approach to and we also do a heck of a lot of road walks now different areas/sniffs etc...this was after the realisation that- because of the convenience for us and the really dark evenings - we'd not really varied her walks much since the beginning of december. When we took her to the lakes at the weekend, she was exactly the same as she is over the park.

With regards interacting with her - I always do training with her on the football pitch (during her walk), heel walking (I can proudly say that we're almost 100% with not pulling anymore) I take a tennis ball launcher, socks  (boke) which she loves  at home, a toy she only ever gets outside (a retrieve type toy). Again she retrieves fabulously on the long line but can't see her bum for dust if we try and do without the long line on. We do clicker training at home - I won't say every day but at least 3-4 times a week, we play lots of 'find' it games (where she hunts something, finds it, and then brings it to us, now dropping it at our feet! - This doesn't translate outside - although I suspect we're doing something wrong here) we go to training classes once a week (where the new tasks we're set are practiced outside and in.) I do have to point out that my husband does very very little training with her though.

Something I've talking to me trainer about is gundog training....but we might not be able to afford this until the beginning of May...

It sounds as if your dog has a great life!

My only thought is that if you "do training with her on the football pitch" then she will get used to doing what you say on the football pitch.  Whatever it is that you do with her on the football pitch, the learning has been done in that location, now you need to work on getting her to do the same things at the lakes and in the park.  If she has learned that when she goes to the park or the lakes, you just want her to have a good run, then she'll willingly do that for you!  Until she drops probably :-D

I do understand what you're saying - my dogs aren't particularly interested in toys whilst out on walks.  The exception was one dog I had that was mad for tennis balls, she was an any time, any place, anywhere girl.  The dogs I have now will retrieve something on a walk if I ask them to (useful when your hat blows off :-D) but they don't crave it like some dogs, so I don't think it necessarily works in every case.  As Lindsay says, it really does depend on finding what "floats your dog's boat."  I have recently come up against an adult dog that won't hunt for an article hidden outdoors either - he will only hunt for food - so that's what I get him to do.

Is this dog a teenager by any chance?  It doesn't make any difference to the ideas you might consider, but it can make your dog extraordinarily selfish and make you think your training efforts have been a waste of time - which they haven't. :-)

Yes, she's 16.5 months - a golden retriever. I know people say that male goldens go through this stage, but not females.

Good point about the training everywhere - not just the football pitch. I think I'll start that this evening.

Something I've just noticed from my post is a possible inconsistency. As my husband does little training with her, I wonder if on the weeks where sometimes he takes her more often (as does happen as we work different hours) she doesn't get as much training

My husband's recalls are complete rubbish. He couldn't get the dog back from two foot away. So I trained him to a whistle as well as voice and hand signals. As long as the OH has the whistle his recall is great. :)

Yes to expand on what JG said, you could even have a long line and little by little, day by day, cut a piece off it, until all that is left is a few inches.

agree with above advice but you could also wrap her lead loosly around her neck tucked into  her collar so the doesnt hear the click .
In desperation to get a dog to return lie down on the floor they cant resist coming back !(If you dont mind looking nuts of course but it works)
remember to sound unbelievably exciting when you call as it has a lot to do with the sound of your voice.

I think you need to start using food wisely - for instance, don't use high value rewards all the time, save them for excellence or at least very good behaviour :)

Does she respond to toys? They can be fab in training to motivate :)

I can't remember her breed, apologies, but if she's got any houndy type in her you may be competing with smells etc - does she go off and hunt or is she just having a lark? :P

It may be that she needs slight consequences in her life generally - it still comes within the bounds of reward based training generally but it means undersanding how to use rewards effectively. For instance, if she doesn't come back after a few moments, say "oh too bad then" and put the treats back and walk off. But again for effectiveness, you need to ensure she is excited for the food, that it really floats her boat and that they are her top thing of all.

Also use the principle that if she does something for you, she gets something from you - the principle of eating your greens before desert. So if you let her off, ask for a sit, handshake, whatever... it all adds up to a dog who listens. So concentrate on the relationship overall not just in the park and make it lots of fun so she loves to comply.

You will get over it - :)

Lindsay
x

I have a bitch who was like this, too smart for her own good and as a terrier any smell was more exciting than me ;)

In addition to generally becoming more interactive with her on walks, I let her miss a meal then took her out hungry and practiced recalling her while she was off lead.  I used half her meal ration as treats, mixed in with really high value treats while out and she got the rest when we got home, but the amount of food was reduced to account for the treats mixed in.  If she didn't respond to recall that portion was put in a bag and not given. The last of the treats were saved for when she went back on the lead at home time and then the rest of her meal was given at home.  This meant that at first she had a little less food but she soon learned that she'd get more food if she came quickly ;) Her recall improved dramatically very quickly after that and has remained good :) :D  

Some long lines are quite heavy and obvious..........for instance, the horse lunge rein that I have used in the past.  Not sure what you use, but if you do use one of these more obvious ones you may want to consider moving gradually to something that is very thin and lightweight - almost for decoration rather than utility!

I was just on another post suggesting a whistle or clicker to go with a long line, (beat me to it Lori) as already suggested by others he is not heeding the difference between still in training and complete freedom.

Start using a whistle or clicker at home blow or click once offer a treat, then incorporate this into his long line training, he will have no mistake even when off lead as to what the whistle or clicker means and in my experience young dogs always take notice of a whistle or clicker much more than a verbal command, it is precise and no mistaking what it means.

As Roxy gets older you can then incorporate different signals like sit, stay, down etc with the whistle or clicker backed up by voice commands if you wish.