Hi
I've just looked back at my posts and realise that I posted something similar to this about a year ago. And nothing's really changed. :(

My male castrated shar pei is now over 2 years old and he's still growling at people both at the door and outside the house. I've seen a reputable behaviourist and, having followed his advice, have seen no improvement. He's loving and calm in the house but if anyone comes to the door he rushes in growling with his muzzle raised and then sniffs whilst still growling (frightening for alot of people). I do my best to keep him away from the door (he won't keep in a stay) but with 4 kids running in and out this is becoming very stressful for me.

He's never attempted to bite anyone, he's never even bitten my boxer when they fight but I'm embarrassed that I've got a dog that scares people. He growled yesterday at a girl who's a regular to the house and barked and growled at a woman we walked past in the street. I only like to allow the kids a friend home when my husband is home because the dog behaves better for him.

He does seem anxious when we're walking round the streets, often whining and whimpering. If he sees anyone around he becomes all alert and vocal. Perhaps he's totally over protective of me though I'm most certainly no weak character!

I've tried making outings interesting and fun for him outside, always praising his good behaviour but when he's out most of the time he's just not interested in the tastiest of titbits and he doesn't like toys at all. I always get the sense that he's doing a security patrol of his local area if you see what I mean.

He loves me to bits, always at the stairs waiting for me, sits at my feet, loves his kisses and cuddles (when he deserves them). My kids would be heart broken to see him go and I'm in tears just at the thought of it but do you think he'd be happier in an adult only household? He's got so much love to give but with my hectic life perhaps I can't give him the help he needs.

Please help, I love him so much and don't know what to do.

Hi Rubygems,

I am not going to try to answer your question regarding the barking, growling behaviour. I think you have answered your own question ' He loves me to bits, always at the stairs waiting for me, sits at my feet, loves his kisses and cuddles (when he deserves them). ' I think your boy has become far too dependant on you and sees everything as a threat to you hence his behaviour. I would give him secure time away from you, don't let him follow you everywhere, pet him everytime he wants etc, I would leave him in a place eg: the kitchen with a gate on so that he can see you, go back every few minutes or so building up the time away from him.     
Does your boy  growl and bark when out with other members of the family ? Who feeds the dog ? if it is only you I would get someone else to feed him from the family, get another person to take him for walks and have fun with him.

I would also advise that you should take him to obedience classes, he is not to old to learn. He needs to learn that what you say goes, not what he wants to do. A good training class will put you in the right direction with his obedience. Even if it is for your own peice of mind that when told to stay at the door or anywhere else, he will stay. You could try to put this into practice by making him sit & stay for a few seconds before he eats his food, gradually building up this sit & stay in other situations.

When he growls or barks at people do you make a fuss, shout etc at him. If so this is all part of the dogs pshyce, he thinks you are joining in with him. When out can he feel that you are nervous if you see people approaching ? They are very sensitive creatures and can pick up things from us, even slight body language changes that we may not be aware of your dog will pick up.

I am sure other posters will have more ideas for you to try also, please don't give up on your boy just yet.

Thanks for your reply Floradora :) I really don't think he is too dependent on me. Although he undoubtedly loves me he's still a typically aloof shar pei and very independent. I often get the kids to feed the dogs but I'm the one who takes him out because my husband has a short fuse and can be quite nasty to the dogs when they disobey him outside :( As you can imagine this puts extra pressure on me because he often reminds me that they're MY dogs.

His stay is very good in the house except when there's someone at the door. My boxer is just as bad.

When he does growl at people outside I pull his head away (he wears a dogmatic) and say a firm NO but ofcourse I'm embarassed and probably do tense up when I see people though I really try not to show it and don't shorten the lead.

Obedience classes would be helpful if I didn't have a dog who goes crazy at the sight of other dogs. And it's not because he wants to play! It's all rather complicated unfortunately.

Hi Rubygems,

Sorry you are having these problems. It may then be worth you trying the recogonised animal behavoiural centres. They will be able to pint you in the right direction.

I hope you are able to sort your boy out.

When he does growl at people outside I pull his head away (he wears a dogmatic) and say a firm NO but ofcourse I'm embarassed and probably do tense up when I see people though I really try not to show it and don't shorten the lead.

Hi there, I picked this part out because I wondered if this was advice given to you by the behaviourist?

This is generally not the way to go :)

Firstly it is important to work out whether the dog is genuinely fearful (so was he well socialised from a young age with many different people, was he overwhelmed, etc etc etc) or whether he is "angry" as it were and not afraid. It's worth noting that often "anger" stems from fear but may not look like fearful behaviour :)

Next thing to do is work on changing his emotions - this is the best way to go, and is done using classical conditioning which your behaviourist should have helped you with. Also another form of conditioning is very helpful esp. with angry dogs which is known as operant and is basically what we know as "dog training". The more fearful a dog, the more the former is used, the more "angry" the more the latter is used.

It will be very difficult if your husband tends to have a short fuse around the dogs as just one bad incident with him related to (in the dog's eyes) something that makes him growl (ie dog would associate being told off severely with nearby people/dogs) could put you back months and months in a behavioural programme.

Just adding another suggestion which is that if your household is very hectic and the dog has nowhere of his own to go, (ie a "den") it may be stressing him out. Stress can be a terrible toll on dogs - but so much depends on what goes on in your house and how the dog copes with it, or not :)

Lindsay
x

Hi Lindsay and thank you :)

I'm pretty sure that my dog is fearful. I'm mainly going by all of the whimpering he does when we walk the streets. When I sit with him in the park and put him in a "down" he's very tense and reacts to every little movement. He had plenty of socialisation as a pup so I really don't know why he is like this. My behaviourist told me to distract him with treats then put them on the floor for him to find when we encounter things that trigger him off. Needless to say he's just not interested, he gets in too much of a state to want to eat. He's not a greedy dog unfortunately!

I know a bit about classical conditioning but how do I apply it to this behaviour outside?

Hi again :)

Did your behaviourist explain about the dog's comfort zone?
It sounds as if your dog is possibly too stressed to eat - so, he is not within his comfort zone and therefore will find it hard to learn anything...classical conditioning working does depend very much on the dog being relaxed enough to take rewards or food treats and start changing the association. Understanding the comfort zone is therefore pretty vital for success... :)

Lindsay
x

Hi

I'm no expert on shar peis or behaviour - BUT - I am an expert on feeling stressed out when having visitors and a dog who doesnt like it and have tried different suggestions from our friends on this site until I found the one that worked for me.

I can only talk from my own experiences - but I do feel that the first thing you have to do is take away the stress for you in these situations.  So buy a tall pet gate and use a room that you can put your dog into behind the pet gate when visitors come - I do this and also make sure that nobody can put arms or feet through the pet gate as well - because if they did when I wasnt looking they would get a nip not just a growl.  Once you know that the visitors and children cannot possibly get hurt you will feel better.  I have so far found that a couple of hours into the visit when people have calmed down slightly I can put him on a long lead and walk him round the garden - if all stays calm I can let him sit with us for a while still holding the long lead - this has been worked up to though.   I have learnt to accept that having him run freely and happily with all and sundry is not going to happen so I'm not going to try and force it or beat myself up for it.  Just accept that this is the way he is and eventually you may be able to change this - but very slowly.

As for going out and the growling I think the mention of 'comfort zone' is also advice I have followed - I spent a long time on the distance trials of seeing how near I could get before the growls as soon as I heard it - turn in the other direction - then worked to stay still for a minute or so and then turn - eventually he got more and more confident and I could get closer and closer.  Outside it was always a dog issue not so much a people issue - unless it was a man walking straight towards me then he got nervous...  Now again after following advice given on this site I have a happy stress free walk with him being sociable to people and dogs - I may have gained a reputation as the local eccentric in the park whilst achieving this but never mind a small price to pay  :D

Dont give up on him yet - try to get your stress levels down and then you may be able to cope better....

Good Luck

Maxine

Sorry just to add I got my dog last year from a rescue centre and he was four years old and I have managed to change his behaviour so I'm sure it must be possible with a 2 year old....

Hi Maxine and thank you for your great advice.
I'll definitely have to get a stair gate although I'm not sure how this will work when the kids are unexpectedly opening the door when I'm upstairs but it's a good idea for planned visits.

Dogs do tend to calm down once all the excitement's over so, depending on the visitor, I can then let him out. I am going to have to accept that this is the way he is, you're absolutely right. It is difficult though because I have a stressful life as one of my children is autistic. The dogs were supposed to be de-stressers, not add to it all LOL

The distance routine for his growling is a good idea, he growls at people AND dogs sadly. Do you give them any kind of reward for being calm? Do you sit them facing away from the stressor or towards it? Well done with your rescue dog, I wish there were more people ready to take on a problem dog. I must admit, I do feel out of my depth with him.

In response to Lindsay, I think my dog is most comfortable out in the fields where I have walked him the most. There's less going on for him, just lots of smells which he loves. He never seems comfortable walking around houses, that's why he often ignores titbits.

Saying that, I've just been over the field and he was approached by a dog his size. He chased him away then returned to me looking very pleased with himself. I said good boy to him for his recall, but he probably thinks I'm pleased with his dog on dog aggression! Oh dear!?:rolleyes:

To top it all this dogs owner came over and, with my dog growling and obviously not happy, decided to fuss him on the top of his head (which he hates). For the first time I saw my dog snap at someone and I didn't like it one bit. I can't really blame him though, you should be wary of a strange dog at the best of times!

Hi

In my house as you come through the front door into the hallway you can go into the lounge, the kitchen, the bathroom and a bedroom.  I have pet gates on both the lounge and the kitchen and it is a golden rule that whenever the door bell goes the dog is put behind one of them and the visitor taken to the other room and then myself or OH can move him as and when necessary.  For planned visits we put the dog gate on the downstairs bedroom.

For the distance routine - yes I gave a treat for every time he saw a dog or a person and didnt react - but it only worked if it was smelly and interesting, eg haslet, liver, liver sausage or sausage not dried or shop bought treats.  It worked and now when I go over the park in the morning I have to take a handful because all the dogs he has become friends with know the routine - meet Louis (mine) sit down and have a treat - they all see us coming and are happy and Louis sees them and knows that the nearer they come the quicker he gets his bit of sausage.  We can do the walks without the treats now but I keep it up - he enjoys it the other dogs enjoy it...

As for the chasing the dog away that approached him if all he did was chase him away I think thats fair enough - he doesnt have to like all those that approach him.  And for the people approaching I can now see when somebody is going to do that and its hard to explain but I'll try - I stand him on my right side - pat him on the back with my right hand whilst putting my left arm round under his chin and stroke his right ear - that way if he goes to move suddenly my left arm is already in position to take control of his head.....  My dog doesnt appreciate being approached when he is on his lead he likes to do the approaching - again though keeping the same walking routine he gets to see the same people and he recognises them and is fine with them .

I also know he wouldnt cope with walking in a busy town centre or high street so I just dont put him through it ...

On the walking and seeing other dogs I progressed to walking in the same direction as a dog but a distance away - was able to make it closer and closer - I used to have to explain to people I wasnt a stalker was just training/socialising my dog  :)

Maxine

In response to Lindsay, I think my dog is most comfortable out in the fields where I have walked him the most. There's less going on for him, just lots of smells which he loves. He never seems comfortable walking around houses, that's why he often ignores titbits.

I'm going to suggest a fab booklet to you which can explain everything far better than me about classical conditioning (as it will take ages to write!).

It's called "The Cautious Canine" and is one of the best information sources for pet owners regarding classical conditioning you can buy :)

http://www.canineconcepts.co.uk/item--Cautious-Canine-Patricia-McConnell-30-pages--cautious

The comfort zone is where the dog is not reacting much - ie you are looking for a fairly relaxed "noticing" of the Scarey Thing. Maybe pricked ears and an alert stance - this is the maximum you are looking for, and it may be quite a way away from the ST. If you go closer - ie to where the dog is reacting more strongly (perhaps barking, growling, hackles up, lunging etc) you have gone too close for the classical conditioning  to work and the dog will be normally be tooo stressed to even think about anything else except the ST. What will possible happen here is that the problem behaviour will get worse as the dog anticipates problems and senses owner worry, too.

Saying that, I've just been over the field and he was approached by a dog his size. He chased him away then returned to me looking very pleased with himself. I said good boy to him for his recall, but he probably thinks I'm pleased with his dog on dog aggression! Oh dear!?

That's probably OK because he would have realised he was being praised for recall - if in doubt, say "come, good come" so the cue or command is associated with the action :)

Lindsay
x

Thanks for your tips. I've ordered a copy of the booklet recommended and will pick up a stairgate tomorrow. I really do appreciate all of you radvice, I've been feeling seriously defeated :(

I'm often walking round in circles trying to find someone with a dog but there's never one around when you need one! I suppose I'll also become the local mad person. Having an unusual, interesting-looking breed of dog which attracts alot of unwanted attention from people doesn't help!  His looks and personality don't really match!

Much thanks, Emma

Just another thought - dogs see someone walking straight at them as a threat, so it can help if he gets worked up walking past people, at least initially, if you see anyone coming you think he might react badly to, to cross the road. That way it avoids him behaving the way you don't want, stops him reinforcing it, and makes him feel better as he doesn't have the threat to deal with. Sorry if that's something you're already doing, your behaviourist might have mentioned it.

And - do you and your husband both train the dogs the same way, use the same signals etc? I just ask because if you both do different things it can sometimes confuse the dog and make them worse.

Hope that's a bit of help :)

He definitely does see people walking straight towards us as a threat. When a large woman approaching us waited whilst we went through the metal bars my dog barked and growled at her. He must have thought she was stopping to attack us or something (very embarrassing). I've tried to avoid crossing the road basically because I thought it would give my dog the message that people were something dangerous and to be avoided?

I'm the only trainer, unfortunately my OH hasn't got the patience and will often moan about the dogs without ever wanting to help me do something about them!

I can understand exactly how you feel on points raised in both your last posts.  If you look at a picture of a Puli you'll see they're also unusual and because they are small as well people view them as teddy bears I think and they most definitely are not.  I also understand the points about the training - my husband was exactly the same.  however,  I concentrated on all the points for walking when I took my dog out by myself and then when I saw an improvement got my husband to come with me - showed him the success - and then he was convinced and joined in.  Up until then his belief was all dogs should walk off lead - all the time - socialise with everybody and anybody with never a problem and nothing to worry about!

Good luck

Maxine

Maxine, I saw some pulis last week at a car boot sale (not for sale though LOL) and my children were desperate to get to them and feel their dreadlocks, as they called them. Really it could even be part of the problem in that everywhere I take my chocolate shar pei people are staring at him, coming up to us to ask me what he is. Some drivers going past do well not to crash their cars!

As for my OH, on the few occasions he's agreed to walk one of my dogs while I have the other he's always losing his temper with them (which is why I've now decided that it'll be just me who'll walk them from now on) but has put in no effort whatsoever to help train them. He's always saying I'm too soft with them but I think they often obey him more out of fear than anything which can't be good. Then often outside they're so anxious around him that they'll do the wrong thing even more and get him even angrier.:( He just thinks that they disobey us on purpose and they cause many rows between us because I feel I have to defend them.

Anyway, that's my moan over. Men,eh?!

Thanks, Emma

> I've tried to avoid crossing the road basically because I thought it would give my dog the message that  > people were something dangerous and to be avoided?

I know what you mean - but them walking straight at him confirms to him that they're dangerous, whereas if you avoid them to some extent hopefully he'll realise they can be nearby without being a threat to him - they'll still go past, but what he sees as a safe distance away. He may think when he barks at them that he's driving them away (bit like barking at the postman!).

Good luck - hard work, but so worth it, aren't they? :)

Thanks, munrogirl76 :)

I'll combine your advice with the conditioning advice and hopefully I'll start to get somewhere!

A problem for me really is that I know alot of the people living around us and so they know I have 4 kids. So when I'm walking past them with a growling dominant looking dog (and shar peis can look rather mean anyway, bless 'em) people probably think I'm mad having a dog like him in the house, although he really couldn't be more loving to his family.

"Good luck - hard work, but so worth it, aren't they?"

You're so right :) :) 

I think there are Sharpei breeders on here that might offer help