I have read many posts on this forum concerning reputable breeders, I know this might sound daft but how do you become a reputable breeder?
Everyone has to start somewhere and reputable breeders aren't born they learn with experience.

I have had many dogs in my life and never bred from any of them(I have only owned bitches),  I have read with great interest everything I can about breeding and took loads of advise from the breeder who has been breeding for 25years.

I have read posts about breeders taking orders for their puppies when they haven't even had their bitches mated, I know prospective owners are willing to wait for the right puppy to come along as when I was looking for my girls I did a lot of research and asking questions.
I know the stud dog owner will pass on any enquiries she has for puppies to me as they have excellent blood lines and pedigrees but was wondering when and where is the best place to advertise I will advertise on the Kennel Club website but I don't want to advertise in local papers and pet shops etc

Mod edited

Reputations are built on word-of-mouth and on results. On the quality of the puppies born and the quality of the assistance the breeder offers the new owners, both before and, even more importantly, after sale.

Yes I understand what you are saying and I agree with what you say.

But Rome wasn't built in a day either you have to be prepared to work at being a good breeder.
It's not something I would be interested in doing all the time as I only really got my dogs as pets, so therefore I would never qualify as a reputable breeder even though I am more caring and would give anything for the health and well being of my dogs than some breeders(puppy farms in particular)

Bad reputations are much easier to acquire than good ones! ;)

Of course it takes time to become a 'reputable breeder', but you don't need to have produced lots of litters. As long as the first one was good enough, with sound, healthy, well-bred pups, and a good lifelong follow-up service for your buyers, then your reputation will build.

But Rome wasn't built in a day either you have to be prepared to work at being a good breeder

Rome generally starts at the edge of the show ring though or the agility field.     People will not queue for puppies from an inexperienced breeder breeding their pets no matter what their parentage is. I think it is also wrong to expect stud dog owners to sell puppies.  this type of breeding will never gain a good repuations as it seems to commerically thought out..

Am I right in reading both bitches have been mated?? 

>But Rome wasn't built in a day either you have to be prepared to work at being a good breeder.

Yes, and to that end a person needs to study their chosen breed thoroughly for years, using the advice of other breeders with, hopefully, many years of experience with that particular breed, before they think about producing their first litter, because they want a puppy to keep. Hopefully, if the research has been adequate (did the dam's gt-gt-grandad have epilepsy? Was the sire's gt-gt-gt-grandma nasty-tempered? etc) and with a lot of luck that first litter will be good. After a couple of years and those pups have grown up to be healthy, sound dogs, the breeder, having continued to study the breed and learned more, will cautiously have a second litter ...

That's how good reputations are built.

>I would never qualify as a reputable breeder

If you feel that you could never gain a good reputation as a breeder then, to be honest, it's best not to start. There are too many 'puppy producers' as it is. :(

I think a lot of people will have their own interpretation of what a reputable breeder is.  Mine is someone who only breeds from dogs which have 'proved their worth', as it were, in any sphere - be it showing or working.  Someone who has done all the health tests applicable for their breed.  Someone who only breeds when necessary and not just for the sake of producing more dogs, or because 'it would do the bitch good', or because it would be good for their kids, etc, etc.  Someone who has gained some repute in the breed via their successes (again, showing or working).  Obviously they will be a mine of information to prospective buyers too, be more than willing to help new puppy owners, advise and educate people who are interested in the breed.  I could go on.

From a new breeders point of view I would say they too should have a list of potential puppy buyers.  This can be gained by people stating their interest in a puppy from the bitch concerned, which they will have seen and admired at shows or working competitions.

HTH

Debs

I have had people stop me when I am out walking enquiring if I am going to breed as they would be interested in a puppy, I don't go to shows as my dogs are pets not show dogs although the stud dog is a show dog

Having just reread your post, I wonder if you could you clarify this point? I now have 2 beautiful bitches which I have just mated (with a reputable breeders stud dogs)  Is that as in mated BOTH your bitches at more or less the same time?

Debs

I see that has now been edited out Surannon. ;)

By the moderator

I'd be very interested to know if any of these people actually buy a puppy from you when you have them.  These are usually throw away comments by hopeful people wanting you to give them a puppy or sell one cheap.  If they really wanted a puppy of your breed, then they would have gone out and bought one.

I also wouldn't consider a breeder to be reputable unless they had put some years into learning about their breed in whatever discipline they were interested, whether that was the show ring, agility, obedience or the field.  To then breed I would expect them to watch an experienced breeder whelp and rear a couple of litters so that they can appreciate the potential hazards and be prepared for them.  I feel that people who stay at home to read a couple of books and rely on others who have put time, money, miles and emotion into learning about their breed are just trying to take a short cut to producing puppies without putting in the effort. :(

I don't go to shows as my dogs are pets not show dogs Love this one :-)

Do you think everyone on here's dogs are not their pets??

How many of these people have you got names and addresses for? Are they definite bookings or was it polite random chat?

Reputable is derived from reputation obviously and that is something that takes some time but I think responsible is something anyone can strive for at their very first attempt and obviously involves learning a great deal about their breed, ensuring they are starting with the right bitch by showing or working her and achieving results, completing all recommended tests with appropriate results and ensuring they have the facilities to ensure the welfare of the bitch and pups at the time and in the future if things come unstuck at their new homes.  I think you also need to have a very good understanding of the demand for your dogs, appropriate homes that is where they are likely to be kept for a life time of similar responsible ownership and I must say that is the thing that worries me about your post as I am finding it hard to imagine any breed where a novice can hope to fulfill all that with two litters at the same time.

Looking at previous posts I have found that it seems it was your groomer who first gave you the idea to breed from your bitches. To be honest, the fact that the stud dog is a show dog does not mean that it is a quality dog - lets be honest, any registered dog can go to a couple of shows and be called a show dog, so it will not necessarily follow the dogs owner will have plenty of enquiries. We can only assume you have already mated the bitches, so now you are in the position that you could have two litters of puppies with no homes, and to be honest with your breed you may well have trouble finding homes - there are usually lots of pups about - good and bad examples. Are you a member of a breed club which may run a puppy list. A reputable breeder would not produce puppies without being certain that good homes could be found for them - through a club or a network of other breeders for any pups over and above the ones that already have homes waiting.

Val and Isabel, Love the way you have written your posts on this subject. It makes me really cross when puppy owners come, they all know that I endorse my pups with r and x and am not willing to lift either but they still come out with " it would be lovely if we can have a litter out of ???", my pet hate, they see I think easy pound signs & don't realise the heartache, sheer hard work, time put in, costs involved, I could go on....in rearing a healthy well socialised puppy. Well done xx

To answer one of your questions: the best place to advertise, if you have puppies surplus to the numbers already on your waiting list, is on your breed club's puppy list. This is where serious people are sent to look for quality puppies from reputable (that word again!) breeders.

These links should give you some idea:
http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=1448&S=0&SourceID=47
it is American but equally applies here, and http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/breeder.html and http://st15.startlogic.com/~justonel/breeder.html

Do you belong to a breed club if so let them know. Do you go to shows and meet others with the same breed? let them know. The stud dog owwner will definitely help

You cant really say that without knowing the stud dog owner. We dont know whether she will get enquiries, nor do we know whether, if the owner of the stud also breeds, she would keep the enquiries for her own litters.  

Everyone has to start somewhere and reputable breeders aren't born they learn with experience.

Coming in late here. Whereas I agree to a certain degree that yes, a breeder will learn by experiences, I only agree that this goes for the actual breeding part: mating, whelping, rearing of puppies. That has little to do with being a reputable breeder in my opinion.A puppy buyer buys an 8 week old pup, so the breeding part is then over and done with and no longer very relevant to the buyer -as long as the pups have been reared well, of course. A reputable breeder is knowledgable about their breed, so when puppy buyers start calling up with all sorts of questions, they will be able to answer them. They are knowledgeable about dogs in general, so can give advice about feeding, training, health care etc. And all of this comes with experience that MUST come before ever breeding a litter. After all, you will not gain experience of adult dogs by having litters, you gain that experience by living with the breed, researching the breed, talking with other breeders, showing the breed etc. AND they breed for a reason, not to make money or for fun, they breed because they want a puppy to keep back for themselves usually (for showing, working, whatever), and make sure the litter has something to offer the breed in general.

Questions that I have had to answer myself include how do I deal with my male puppy's discharge from his penis? When will the adult coat appear? At what age does this breed usually settle down a bit and mature? When have they reached their adult height? Adult weight? At what age do they usually have their first season? First cock their leg?  Have their first moult? What do I do when my half grown puppy starts being too rough when playing with other dogs? What's the breed like with other breeds, cats, small animals, children? How do I stop my puppy from pulling on the lead? How do I get a good recall?

Being able to answer questions like that, always being there to help, and, of course, always being willing to take a pup back at any point in its life should the new owner not be able to keep it, THIS makes for a reputable breeder far more than knowing how to breed a litter. JMO. :)

Yes Marianne, I have to agree with you on that one.

Everyone has to start somewhere and reputable breeders aren't born they learn with experience.

Agree completely Goldmali.  The important thing is to learn from experienced breeders, watching, listening, hearing over many years before even thinking about mating a bitch! :(

Anyone can produce puppies.  It takes many years to become a reputable breeder. :)

But there are some people who don't want to learn.  Some have been on these boards for years, having bought pet quality bitches from a puppy producer who doesn't have time to show her dogs. :(  Having been given good advice on here from an experienced breeder in their breed, decides to ignore it and STILL mates her pet bitches. :(

It took me about 20 years before I felt confident enough to have a litter.

Me too Marianne, I had my first (and last) litter 19 months ago after having collies for 20+ years. My borzoi boys have been used at stud over the years and I've had pups back from them - thats the easiest way to do it. I'd helped at several whelpings before and have been involved in rearing puppies but just hadn't appreciated quite how much work it is 24/7...I'll just be buying my next puppy in :D it'll be cheaper than rearing a litter anyway ;)

I agree everyone has to start somewhere.
I didn't show my first dog BUT I went to breed shows for almost 3 years. Talking to breeders, gaining experience about every aspect of showing and possibly breeding. I am also a moderator for a breed specific forum and have been for 5 years. I bred my first litter in 2005 and kept a bitch for showing. This is my 2nd litter and I am keeping another bitch for showing. I am also a member of 2 committees and a webmaster for one of those.
I don't know wether any of the above makes me reputable but I have and am trying my hardest to be ;-)

Well Chocaholic, it sounds as though you're on the right path to me :d

I was showing dogs for 18 years before I bred my first litter!   I've bred four litters (a total of 12 pupppies in all) in the last 10 years but all within a three years span. I loved the puppies being there but I found the homing so very stressful, even though all bar two puppies went to people I knew very well.  So much easier for others to do all the hard whelping/rearing work -then I just go along and pick a nice puppy to show :d

Debs

Have you thought out what happens If : ?

My bitch has problems whelping ? How would I know
What if a puppy is born not breathing ?
What if a pup is stuck ?
The dam has no milk ?
How would you handfeed ?
Do you know how to check for cleft palates ?
What if your puppies have something wrong with them, would you know ?
How would you cope if you are left with x number of pups because said people changed their minds or they come back to you if pup has a defect or can no longer cope.
Are you able to answer general questions regarding rearing a pup to the new owner who rings you in a blind panic because of X
Are able to vet the owners to see if they are suitable, what to ask etc

Breeding isn't just about mating a dog to a bitch and hoping for the best. I would hope that the stud dog owner has checked your girls pedigree lines back also.

Rearing pups costs not only an  considerable amount of money but also time ( you will feel like the walking dead after 8 weeks), love, devotion and lots of sleepless nights.

Another aspect is do you have the facilities.  A litter of 6 to 8 week old pups can make a considerable racket when their mother refuses to fed them any longer, or they need to toilet at unsociale hours, and when they play.

I had someone complain to the council that I was alowing my pups out at 6am.  After talking to the people at the council they agreed that of course pups need to go outside and cannot be dictated to as to when, and that it is hard to subdue all noise (unless I duct taped theri muzzles ), and that it wasn't an issue as it woudl be short term, but it was very stressful after having lived here 18 eyars with dogs and breeding litters, trying my hardest to limit any potential for nuisance.

I hope I can be considered a reputable breeder - but I think it quite probable that I shall only breed one more litter :(

I had planned on at least one, possibly two, litters of Aussies in the future - but sadly, my little girl (bred by us!) just does not have a "steady" enough temperament for me to take a chance with - don't get me wrong - she is a lovely girl BUT she's not keen on strangers, has decided that she absolutely HATES showing, and is not inclined to be that sociable towards other dogs/children.

And if I won't trust her with my own grandchildren on their own - why on earth should I use her as a foundation bitch for a line?   Her mum has a lovely (if scatty) temperament, her dad is wonderful, her siblings are rock-steady ....... BUT Vinnie, instead of being called Venus in Blue Jeans should have been called "Devil in disguise" :D

This is a big disappointment to us - but that's life.  

Margot

You're demonstrating great responsibility, Margot. A less reputable breeder wouldn't be particularly bothered about that.

> she is a lovely girl BUT she's not keen on strangers, has decided that she absolutely HATES showing, and is not inclined to be that sociable towards other dogs/children

Now where have I heard that one before, Margot :D :D :D

Daisy

I could be reading about myself, Lokis mum, from your post. I had planned to start my own line after finally deciding to breed my wonderful bitch (health checks, temperament, etc. all fine). Having had dogs for over 20 years, she was the only one I considered good enough to be used for breeding. I kept one of the bitch pups and like you, her temperament was nowhere near 100%, so she has been spayed and that was the end of my dream. Maybe one day I will find another wonderful bitch, who knows.

Surely there are irrisponsible breeders out there regardless. They can be called good,they can be called bad, plus more in between. Yes, we all know well admired breeders that are also Show dog judges and the like, but many also breed to many litters of their own and they make their living from doing just that, it is after all a good buisness if you have the right name. But with all the recues being full of pedigree dogs most of the time, isn't there something going wrong somewhere,... or shouldn't we say?

Whenever I look around my local dogs home all I see is staffie crosses, lurchers, collie/Terrier/Lab crosses.  The few recognisable purebreeds are pretty poor examples.

But with all the recues being full of pedigree dogs most of the time,

Not my experience either.  32 dogs in my local rescue kennel.  26 of them either poor quality Staffies or Staffie crosses, the rest are good old mongrels! :(

Don't you think it's sad that there are any, whatever breed or cross they are. But I now realise should of said the breed specialised rescues of which always seem to be full. I often wonder though where all the pups go too? We had young dogs almost thrown at us and all pedigree of a few months old too, when we mentioned we were looking for another older pup.  There were 182 pups of my breed on one website on one day that I counted and I yet see very few of them out and about on walks. There are also very few households nowadays that can afford to have one or the other of a partnership at home like they used to be in the good old days, before two cars and holidays abroad. Lots of people I work with have their toddlers in nursery and the dog stuck at home all day. And then there are a lot of couple breakups where the dog is the victim and very often at an unbelievable young age.
I just wonder what other people think and what they would consider to be the answer to a growing modern problem?

But the whole idea of being a reputable breeder is to take responsibility for the puppies you breed, i.e. should there be a marriage breakdown you would take the puppy/dog back and rehome it and not push the responsibility onto the rescue centres. Also be there at the end of a phone to help if the new owners have any problems. Also to do your absolute best to ensure that the puppies are going to responsible people who have got the time to give to the dog.

Alisongold is right. The reputable breeder takes responsibility for helping to rehome 'their' puppies (at whatever age) if the need arises. They'll have permanently IDed (tattoo, microchip or both) the pups before they leave so that even if the new owner doesn't tell the breeder what's happening, a rescue centre will hopefully find the ID and can then locate the breeder. Some rescue centres don't do this but that's not the fault of the reputable breeder.

Of course 'puppy producers' are less likely to do this because they don't want to accept their lifelong responsibility to the animals whose very existence they're responsible for.

JG, I thought the only details kept on the ID register was the owner, didn't realise they kept details of the breeder? Good idea, just idn't think they did it.

And go on, tell me what your signature means? :)

The National Tattoo Register definitely keeps the breeder's details (if it was the breeder who had the pup tattooed!); I'm not sure if the microchip register does.

('Education is everything'!)

& LOTS of collies

My lot arent 5 weeks yet, and I am already in zombie mode

oooh noooo Fillis mine are just 3 weeks and I am past zombie mode what will be be like in another 2 weeks - lol :-)

This is an interesting thread and I am pleased it has been raised as it should educate. 

Sadly in my breed I am of the opinion that the reputeable breeders are few and far between - well what I mean by that is there are not many people I would buy from for different reasons.  I am amzed at how many people in my breed dont health test, nor do they take puppies back, some breed for looks over temperament, some whom you would expect to offer support dont the list could go on. 

I had a dog back out of my lat litter due to family breakup and rehomed him and I would do that anytime, rather that than add to the numbers in rescue.  I always believe if you cant rescue - DONT BREED. 

I am still shocked my the amount of puppies that are being tested positive for vWD.  Some are be inexperienced people who thought it would be a good idea to mate their pets and have a litter and WHAM when they start showing and learn more they find out about vWD, they test and sadly they have put carrier to carrier.  And more worrying some are experienced people who should know better.

I would like to class myself as reputeable as several queries I receive are from recommendations and have bookings for my next litter (dont yet know when that will be LOL) - my current litter were all sold by 2 weeks, 4 booked before mating - so I must be doing something right. :-)

Hi,
A reputable breeder, mmm, in my opinion is one who know her breed line,
Has good healthy dogs that are  complementary to there breed,
Had her dogs health checked,
Her dogs have excellent temprements,
Have facilities for the welping bitch,
Warm, draft proof, accommodation, welphing box ect;
Time to spend with the bitch, dueing and after her welphing,
Looks after her dogs as extened family.
Usally has a waiting list for her pups.
Gives constant support to her puppy buyers. also will have the puppies "dogs" back if they
for any reason become a problem.
These people usually are in there breeders clubs or Associations.
I personally think you should not go into welphing your bitch till you have time to spend 24hour care
for her and her pups.
That could be up to they go at 8 weeks.
NOT EASY!
Then there is the medical side of welphing,
To know if your bitch is having a problem, could you help her?
You could loose your bitch and puppies.
The are a lot of very experienced breeders on here.
Take there advice, you could need it!

Regards
Denese

And on the other hand...A rescue volunteer spots a Staffie accompanying a man into the rescue shop/reception and comments on the size of the dog's testicles.  Her companion looks closer and realises that the 'testicles' are actually a half-emerged pup.  The man was in the shop asking for a harness because his dog was 'walking funny'.  This is true story.

Some people should be shot.........

Thanks for your advise and good advise it is too.
But I must inform you that I am not an idiot that just want to let her dog have a litter and I'm not a regular breeder either as I will not be letting mine have another litter.
I don't agree with people flogging their bitches to death mating them every year as some DO, I'm not after making money from my dogs and I don't care if they only have one puppy they will be loved and looked after 24-7 as I don't go out to work and have all the time in the world for my dogs.
I have a spare room which me and the bitch will be moving into probably a week before she is due and I wouldn't leave her at all. Any signs of problems during in the birth and I won't mess about I will take her straight to the vet's (our vet's is 24hr).
I am already prepared with whelping box etc
I have followed the line with breeding and my dog has had health check and booster and wormed before mating.
I know some of you breeders don't like newcomers breeding a litter well I'm sorry if it offends any of you but you at one time had a first litter.