My mum just took my dogs to the vets for KC vac and one of theirs boosters. She was asked about Pesto's allergies and how they were and my mum went on to say that they were much better since being on the BARF diet. The vet then went on about how they should not be on it and how it was not the best diet (probably going to suggest hills (the food pesto was worse ever on) or someother yucky brand ) my mum said that she was happy with the diet. So the vet then said that my mum shouldn't feed bones because they are dangerous but my mum said that they have them every day so they can't be that dangerous. She then went on to say that they should have more carbohydrate (which I believed they didn't need much of???) and to that my mum responded that dogs in the wild wouldn't eat rice and potatoes. The vet said that that was why wild dogs didn't live so long. Now how can not eating carbs make a dog, who is a carnivore, live less long. Surely less life is due to the stress of hunting and not enough food etc... not that they don't have carbohydrate?

The only nice thing she said about the diet was when my mum mentioned that they have bones every day and the vets said "oh that is why their teeth are so good".

Sorry about the rant. It just annoyed me as my mum couldn't put the diet in the right light as I just give my mum a diet sheet and she feeds it. I have done all the researche etc... Anyway it is a new vet who doesn't know me cos the old vet used to be very happy that I fed it.
Sorry just annoyed and needed to vent
Anna (seem to be posting alot at the moment )

Is the new vet at the same surgery as the old one?  If so, it is probably best to counter with "(name of other vet) was quite happy about the dogs being fed this way."  If you've done all the research Anna, you are possibly better informed nutritionally than the vet, as I shouldn't think it forms a large part of their training. :)  Sounds like your Mum did well, even if she hadn't done the research herself! :P

All that matters is that your dogs are doing well on the food you give, so try not to take this to heart. :)

In the wild they wouldn't eat just chicken wings, the bulk of thier diet would consist of thier kills stomach and contents, which is high in all nutrients.
There are many reasons why in the wild they would not live as long.  As you say stresses also illness without treatment, lameness which would end up with predators killing them etc etc.

I had the same response from a young vet at our surgery who also told me our dog was obese When I asked her what was wrong with a raw diet she told me that dogs had been living on commercial food for decades and could see no reason why anyone would want to feed raw. I was then offered some diet food that the surgery sold - which I politely declined, so she booked my dog in to the obesity clinic.

Our dog was only 15 months old at the time, and being a rescue with no idea of parentage but a breed in which hip dysplacia can be a problem, I have always been careful to keep him on the lean side so was duly horrified. I went to the obesity clinic and the veterinary nurse who runs it was mystified as to why he was there. She told me that he was in excellent condition and did not have a weight problem at all, much to my relief, and was particularly well muscled. Hopefully the new vet was just having an off day but I have a sneaky feeling that it was actually an attempt to try to get me to switch to an expensive brand of food available through the practice.

Next time I will just make sure that I see our usual vet.

Surely vets have a right to an opinion on diet, everyone else does :)

I reckon they do Isabel :) And some vets seem to have more opinions than others :)

The thing I did find worrying was that the vet thought my dog was obese and so sent me to an obesity clinic where I was then told he was absolutely fine - and definitely not obese :)  I was just wondering why a trained professional in a profession I have great admiration for would not be able to tell fat from muscle :)

I am very lucky that I have a vet that is interested that I had changed my two over to Barf and commented on how good they both looked and more importantly how Dudley was doing so well considering her awful hips

Obescity is a bit of a matter of opinion too :)  I know I don't always agree with the weight people think their dog is perfect at.

There is a difference between giving your opinion and ramming it down someone's throat Isabel. :)

I think the difference is, as a professional he would expect to give his opinion, after all we are paying for it, and as a professional and a scientist he will be accustomed to giving a rationale.  As lay people we may see that as 'ramming it down someone's throat' but in my experience only when we disagree with it when we agree we see it as very informative :)

I would agree if the appointment was food related but often I find these lectures (and it is very difficult to describe them in other terms) and often unwanted and are purely the vet airing his or her own prejudices.  That they are not entitled to do when I'm paying for their time! :)

You mentioned that you thought vets would not know much about nutrition but I think they do.  It is impossible to study anatomy and physiology  nor aetiology, the study of disease, without a good understanding because it is so thoroughly linked, as I am sure you will agree, and knowing this they may well think it pertinent to raise it at any consultation as a health professional.  It's a bonus, you would not be impressed if you went to get nails clipped and they did not mention and suggest a treatment for an interdigital cyst :)

I didn't say they wouldn't know much, but I do feel members of the public who have done their research can be at least equally well informed.  It isn't rocket science!  The proof of the pudding is in the eating and if you are taking a perfectly healthy animal in for say a booster, I would not expect a lecture on raw feeding. :rolleyes:

>as I shouldn't think it forms a large part of their training

Sorry, that is how I read it :)

>It isn't rocket science! 

No, not rocket science, although I have never known just how complicated that actually is ;) but I think there is a good bit to getting it right.  It is commonly contradicted isn't it, one thread will say that then another will say research, research, research.
If you think you are doing it well and your dog is very healthy, as it could well be, then you should feel comfortable rejecting his advise but as a health professional I do not think we can criticise him for giving an opinion.  Who knows how many poorly managed home diets he comes across so he may very reasonably feel, in balance, that is not generally a good thing, that is his opinion.

Saying it doesn't form a large part of their training doesn't say that they don't know much about it (although I believe what training they do get is strongly biased towards the pet food industry) but I don't think you need to be a trained professional to be expert on feeding matters.  When I said it isn't rocket science, I meant again that you don't need professional training or be super intelligent to get it right but of course you have to research, that's the way you learn to do it right.

If a dog's health is seen to be suffering in some way and the vet feels this could be food related then of course he or she is right to give that opinion.  However, this was clearly not the case in the instances stated above, nor was it when I was given a similar lecture by a vet at my practice.

I think they get very little information from the pet food manufacturers, a lecture or two about what is available I understand.

I think they get very little information from the pet food manufacturers, a lecture or two about what is available I understand.

That could possibly be all the specific nutritional information that they get. :)

Yes, I expect so but they will have studied nutrition as a subject because you can not seperate it out from A&P and aetiology and of course they will have been examined on the subject ;)

they will have been examined on the subject

Oh well, that's everything to you then isn't it Isabel? :D  I'll let the widely reported health improvements for BARF fed dogs speak for themselves then and say no more! :)

>that's everything to you then isn't it Isabel?

Doesn't it mean anything to you?  Is wide reporting the best form of verification these days then?  I suppose that is the internet for you :)

Just to clarify I am not knocking BARF as a way of feeding, I am sure done properly it will be perfectly good.   I am just talking about whether vets understand dietary requirements and might have their own opinions particularly as they are the ones most likely to see the results when it has not been carried out well.  This should not be a problem to those who are confident they are getting it right but I don't think we should say vets should not talk about it or any reservations they may have.  I think they are entitled to at least as much as the rest of us.

oh dear. Didn't mean for this to become such a debate. I don't mind the vets putting their points across if they know about the diet they are talking about instead of just saying everything about it is bad and dangerous and that we weren't doing the best by our dogs.

The fact is since Pesto has been on this diet she has not been to the vets except for her booster whilst before we have spent over £1000 (luckily we have insurence) on her alergies in the 2 years of her life. I the last 10months that she has been on BARF we have spent nothing.

Ziggi my vizsla has also had a better temperament since being on it and is much more attentive when training. Pesto also rarely needs her anal glands emptying which she needed alot of the time when on a complete food.

Neither has ever refused food since being on it either which they used to do on kibble. I also just love seeing thier faces when I prepare it. Before they just weren't that bothered as they knew it would be nothing exciting.

I am happy with it as is my mum. I like the vets to put their points across but if they have actually looked at the positives and negatives of a diet not just point blankly said it is bad.

Sorry

I'm afraid that vets, being human, are just as likely to have fixations on certain aspects of health care, according to their experiences, as anyone else. No single feeding method is perfect for all dogs, and vets are usually the ones who have to try to sort out the problems. :)

Sorry you did not want a debate.  What was the post about then ;)?
Hopefully your experience will help influence his opinion but I don't think you can disallow him one.  If we don't allow vets an opinion and at least listen to it how can we expect them to recipricate? :)

Don't apologise supervizsla, you have nothing to be sorry about. :)

Supervizsla

I agree with you in that I think any responsible person should not just dismiss something out of hand. The vet I saw just condemned my chosen way of feeding, didn't let me get a word in edgeways and made me feel as though I was doing something really bad. I spent a lot of time researching this way of feeding before I started to feed a raw diet - also researched complete food as well - and I am convinced that raw is the best diet for my dog. :) Some of the info out there about raw feeding is very biased against kibble and vice versa but that's the way it is with most things.

As in all professions there are experts who are approachable and willing to discuss/entertain methods other than the ones they believe in and there are those who are not. :)

I had this when one of mine went for her Cruciate op. The vet I had been referred to asked what she was fed and then stated his thoughts on BARF and also went on to say that he thought that the whole breed standard should be changed for my breed to make them smaller.

He did also have some interesting points but I listened to everything he said and took it all on board. I believe that what suits one dog does not necessarily suit another and am not rigidly for or against anything. The vet did a perfect job of the cruciate so couldn't complain too much!!!

I think the way some vets put their points across put your back up sometimes, or my my personal experience anyway that is what I have found anyway, I am lucky that my vet is open to ideas and will discuss rather than just tell.

Even I, as a lay person, know the difference between fat and muscle :)

I am always open to other people's opinions just find it a bit disconcerting that there should be such a disparity in the views of two professionals in the same practice as to whether a dog is obese or not.

When I attended the clinic there was a huge visible difference between my dogs appearance and other dogs also attending. When my dog was weighed by the nurse he was the average weight for his breed, and as I said before, the nurse herself was mystified as to why he had been referred to the clinic in the first place. She actually told me that he looked in great condition and was well muscled :)

The change in both our two in their physique (sp) was quite remarkable after a few months once we changed ;)

The change in Maddie after going the raw route was phenomenal, even our vet who tried to put me off had to admit how good the change in her is :) Once my mind was made up though, he did help in suggestions of a diet for her and what veggies to feed etc :)

I'm sure many vets are reassured when they see someone demonstrating it can be done well.

I'm sure he was :) Its nice when you get your vet, in whom you trust, to come round to your way of thinking and admit that - for once ;) - I was right :P
he looked at me gone out when I told him I get most of my info/help from Champdogs ;) LOL