Hi
Any ideas on this would be welcome please!  I have 2 dogs (3year old entire male and 6 month old bitch).  I normally walk them seperately but frequently want to take them out in the car together, so that I can then walk one and then the other, thereby saving time, petrol etc etc.  The problem is the boy - when I take the pup out of the car to walk he kicks off and barks non-stop until she returns.  I have tried 'blacking out' the car so that he can't see anything but to no avail.  It makes no difference if I walk him first or the pup first or whether the pup is away for 5 minutes or 50.  When I travel the boy in the car on his own he is and always has been as quiet as a mouse; I can also leave him in the vehicle without a peep be it at Tescos or in the middle of a field where I normally walk him.  I thought at first it may be the boy geting too clingy for the bitch but I would be hard pushed to keep them any more seperate than they already are, for they sleep seperately, they train seperately and walk seperately.   Am at a loss on this so all ideas welcome.

Cheers

why not walk them together ..If your older dog can be trusted off lead let them both off I find my puppy never leaves older dogs side anyway.Or let older dog off and keep puppy on a long line.
He is just playing you up because he doesnt want to be left behind knowing puppy is having fun.
especially if he knows how to behave properly on shopping trips etc.

Hi
Thanks for your reply.

The reasons why I don't walk them together a lot are as follows:  a) I want the pup to bond more with me than the other dog  b) I want her to learn to be independent from a socialisation perspective when meeting strange dogs and not be reliant on my boy for cues as to how to behave    c)  I want to ensure that her behaviours are learned and not just copied and finally d) in later life I can foresee many instances when I will need to take them both out in the car together but leave one or other in it for a period of time.  For instance, at gundog training......they do the pups class first and then the older dogs.  I also treat myself from time to time to a one on one with a trainer about 50 miles away - it would make sense to take both dogs and not do seperate trips.  Also, if I ever get to enter both dogs at a Working Test or in a Companion Dog show I will need to leave one or other in the car whilst working/handling the other.

I therefore still need to SOLVE the problem rather than just work around it if you get my drift.  Sorry if that sounds ungrateful....it's not meant to at all.  I must admit I do agree with you about the boy playing me up.  :-)  It's just how the **** do I handle it?

Thanks once again for your time.

How about giving your boy something to do in the car while he waits? A bone or a toy perhaps, just til he gets used to the idea.

I have to say mine kick off something wicked if I take one out and leave the rest in the car! :d

Debs

this maybe one difficult to solve . In the training school I attend the trainer is a very well known gundog trainer he sometimes has his trailer full of dogs while taking the class they bark like crazy for most of the time in the yard too far away to disturb dogs training but he just ignores them .
Curious about this one will ask his advice next weekend out of curiosity.

My dogs just look in utter disgust if I only take one out of the car eventhough they are known for being a 'barking breed'.

Starryeyes.......thanks for this.  If your guy comes up with anything next weekend, let me know.  Must admit though to a little smile when you said that his dogs kick off too!  :-)  Makes me feel a tad better!

Cheers

Surannon.....good idea!  Will try a bone later on today.  Many thanks.

I'd suggest taking him out of the car for his walk first? is that possible? It may solve the problem if you are lucky.

It sounds to me as if he's used to being with you and doesn't understand why you leave him. Sounds anthropomorphic but I do firmly believe dogs can feel anxiety, stress etc and to me it sounds as if he's stressed you are leaving him but taking the pup. By walking him first you would get into a routine of sorts, but, if he's quiet in the car after it may be that he will be used, overall, to being quiet when left when you then take the pup out, and so that may transfer to other times if you then add them in slowly (say jsut 1 minute at first). Sorry am I making sense?!

I'd try -

walking him first if possible

the bone option

Perhaps consider a DAP spray in the car, it might take the edge off any anxiety although if his adrenalin is flowing it may not.

If not, start to gradually desensitise him to being separated in this particular situation (as you say they are already used to it elsewhere). For instance you could train her very close to the car so he can see, then go out of sight for a few seconds with her... it depends  alot on how he reacts. Ideally it would be great if you had help with this, as then someone can be with him and reinforce an incompatible behaviour (eating a bone/stuffed kong/relaxed down reinforced with high value food, etc). It does work but problem is would take some time, so if he reacts better if he's been out first and is then left in the car, it would be preferable ;)

Lindsay
x

I think one of the key words in your note for me was 'routine'......I tend to be very flexible in my 'routine' with the dogs because of the nature of my work and todate I've been lucky in that they have adapted well - doesn't matter if we walk at 0700, 0900, 1100 or whenever.  I think if I try to stick to a set time and maybe a set place for a period, walk him first as you suggest and persist with this so that he realises we always come back it may get through and relieve the anxiety.  That coupled with bone and DAP.  I have tried walking him first before, but in retrospect I think I have been chopping and changing strategies hoping that I was going to hit on a successful one rather than working on any particular one for a while and giving it a chance to succeed.  Too impatient for my own good!  :-(

Getting someone else to help on a regular basis will not be an easy option, so will keep fingers crossed that the above will bear some fruits.  Thanks as ever.

When I had the GSD'S in a different life! we had a trailer that they traveled in and they used to bark, we would sail along oblivious to the noise but pedestrians could be seen gazing in wonder at the strange noises emulating from the trailer!! Five or six GSD'S can make a lot of noise. It only used to reach us in the car when we stopped at the traffic lights or such, they never stopped doing it and we just ignored them! Once we got to wherever we were going they would shut up and wait patientally to get out. We lived by the sea and during the winter the beach was deserted but on a hot summers ady we could always make a space on the beach, we used to pull up on the edge of the sand, open the trailer and six GSD'S would make a bee line for the water clearing a nice wide space as they went!!! I hasten to add they were all very well socialized and never caused a problem, in fact they were well known and had a huge following of fans!!!
Funnily enough they always new the difference between a trip for a walk or a show trip and never barked when showing, or for that matter on the way to training classes. Soory not much help with your problem but they never got uses to being quiet on the way to a walk, Oh and for those of you wondering we always walked them together, six dogs is way too many for one person to control!!

Okey dokey.....a week or more on and this is where we are at!  Bones and dap have not produced any noticeable change in behaviour todate.  As an experiment I tried putting both dogs in the car outside the house, sitting in the car reading the paper for 10 mins and then taking pup out and doing some training around the car and up and down the road........not a peep from his lordship!  I then took the pup around the corner out of sight.......again not a murmur.  I then drove the car down the road and parked up in the village and did the same again........quiet as a mouse!  I then pushed my luck and drove to some local fields.......walked his nibs first, put him back in the car and then took pup out on lead around the car and ...........all hell broke loose!  :-(  Soooo..........am I right in assuming it is the environment that is triggering this?  If so, how do I desensitise him to that..........is it possible?  Or is this something that I am going to have to live with?

Cheers

I do understand the environment being a signal.
a lot of it is down to routine for example: if I take my 3 dogs to the local park where we usually play football there is no way I can arrive and just have a quiet walk around off lead as all they do is bark for the ball.
Now...when we go to Lymme Park we never take balls as they have great fun running up and down the massive hills they have never had toys there so dont expect them.
Maybe you should go to a different area to break the routine as you have proved to yourself its the fields that kicked them off.

Hmmmm.........think I will need to find somewhere totally new to him and see how he behaves.  Won't be easy as I think I've nailed down every safe pointer-friendly walking area within a reasonable circumference.......and there aren't that many, trust me!  Oh well, job for tonight to get the OS map out and do a search on country parks in neighbouring counties.  Thanks for suggestion.

Could it not be that you are doing it the opposite way round ie the pup went out first all was ok but at the park you put 'his lordship' away and ended his fun only to let the pup have the fun.

What happens at the park if you take the pup first and put the pup away then get out your other dog...

Maxine

Hi
I have tried both him first and her first.  I thought that by walking him first he would at least have a degree of physical tiredness that may enable him to settle..........but no, either way he kicks off. :-( This one is stumping me totally.

Would it be possible to walk them both at the same time but alternate with one on lead and the other off?

Think the idea was to get them used to one being left in the car..

a) I want the pup to bond more with me than the other dog  b) I want her to learn to be independent from a socialisation perspective when meeting strange dogs and not be reliant on my boy for cues as to how to behave    c)  I want to ensure that her behaviours are learned and not just copied and finally d) in later life I can foresee many instances when I will need to take them both out in the car together but leave one or other in it for a period of time.

Hope you get some more ideas come your way

Whoops sorry - I hit reply before I had finished writing ( that's what comes of doing three different things on the computer at once:) ).

Right  - what I was going to suggest is that you start off walking them both together at the beginning of the walk and alternate with one dog on lead and one off so that you can concentrate on getting full attention of pup when it is on lead. After maybe half an hour try returning to your car and putting older dog back in it while you take pup by itself for a short while. Then return and swap pup for older dog and take him back out again by himself - the reward for waiting in the car. Or maybe the other way round - both together at start of walk, then pup back in car and lastly older dog to remain in car.

Do you think it would make any difference if you covered the window on the side of the car that you would be walking away on so he can't see you go?

Good luck :)

Hiya
Have tried the blackout curtains to no avail.........what I think would work would be to black out the rear of the car from the moment I move off from home so that he has no idea where we are when we park up, but I guess that is illegal and therefore a non-starter. :-(

Re walking them together........that brings me on to another problem and another reason why I currently want to walk them seperately.  The pup just thinks that the sun shines out of his rear and wants to play with him all the time (typical pup!).  He tolerates her wonderfully but has been on his own for the first 3 years of his life and therefore I think he deserves some peace and quiet at times. When he is out and about he is focussed on hunting and working and doesn't want her hanging off his ears etc etc.  He is a wooz and has never even grumbled at her (I wish he would!), so his way of dealing with it is to run out with her following.  She gets to a certain distance beyond which she is not comfortable and comes back to me;  he therefore makes damned sure that he stays beyond her point of comfort!  If I recall him, he will come as far as where she is lurking ready to pounce and then turns away, so it is buggering up my recall big time!  :-(  If I put her on a leash, he will again only come within 4-5 foot of me as she is by then leaping around like a dervish.

I know I have to get this walking together sorted, but was kinda hoping that it would come with age as she grew up and matured.   So, maybe in 3 years time?  :-(  Any ideas on this welcome too.

Thanks

what I think would work would be to black out the rear of the car from the moment I move off from home so that he has no idea where we are when we park up, but I guess that is illegal and therefore a non-starter
I don't think you would have a problem with this, after all most vans have no view through the van as the back doors have no windows. Provided you have wing mirrors this should be OK legally I would I think  ( but not in police or lawyer so don't know for sure). I would certainly give it a go if I were you. :)

Good point re vans!  Hadn't thought of that.
Cheers

the National Parks are excellent for dogs , dont know where you live but Lymme Park near Stockport is around an hour away from me but well worth travelling to as it is a great place for the dogs to run free.
There are sheep and deer in certain parts but the area is so large you can put the leads until you are clear,  the hills tire the dogs out plus good for excercise.
I would highly recommend it to anyone.

Am in Warwickshire so Lyme would be a good couple of hours away.........may try the National Forest later on today (less than an hour away).....looks like a few possibilities there.
Thanks anyway.

Howabout parking 5 mins walk from where you're going and walking the pup out there first (it only adds 5 mins to get to the fields or whatever), then driving to the fields and taking him so he thinks he's getting the 'proper' walk and she's being taken somewhere unimportant?  I'm not sure if I've put that very clearly but I hope you see what I mean. My gsp would go spare if we drove out to a walk and I just took the flatcoat - but if I parked somewhere he didn't THINK was near the walk and took the flatcoat out I could get away with it (even if it was near but by a route he didn't know about ;) ).