Hi .
Havent been on here for while but maybe someone could give me some advice. My 7 yr old Ellie was giving all the indications of being pregnant with her 2nd litter (1st one  2 years ago). At the weekend she went off her food  she would be around 6/7 weeks. Had what started out as mucous discharge then from this a.m. blood with small clots. Not smelly or pus.  She was by this time eating very well no temp. Rang vets and took her in. I feared the worst as she had overnight seemed to be much smaller. Vet couldnt feel any pups so scanned her. They said her uterus is enlarged so def had been pregnant. No sign of fluid or infection so ruled out pyo. Couldnt see any pups though. He wants her back in first thing in a.m. to spay her. Says it might develop into pyo at later date. Gave her an antibiotic jab. I know I'm prob clutching at straws but could they have missed one up under her ribs. Though she is smaller than she was last week she is still more rounded at her ribs than she is normally. I thought I could at least wait til after her due date & then perhaps spay if he thinks there might be problems later. I know I wont sleep tonight ~ just dont know what to do for the best. What if I took her in to be spayed and they found the scan was wrong? This was going to be her 2nd and last litter. Help I really dont know what to do.....
Helen

I would ask for a course of antibiotics adn as you say have her spayed after the due date.  Don't think this would be the best stage to spay a bitch anyway as she is full of hormones, probably has milk etc.  Then again the Vet is the one with the bitch in front of him.

Thanks Brainless ~ I had thought it a strange that it needed to be done so soon. She has got milk etc. She is quite lively tonight. The Antibiotic jab he gave her was a long acting one off he said & was given just in case, he said there was no temp no smelly discharge it was just a straightforward misscarriage. I was therefore a bit taken aback when he suggested spaying asap. He said she was an old bitch and once they have any probs with uterus your opening up a whole can of worms. He said that to spay her tommorow would cost £350 but if she developed a Pyo it would cost £1000+. The cost wasnt an issue ~ I had just asked him why it couldnt wait til after her due date. My daughter has just arrived back from Uni and thinks she still looks quite rounded round her ribs. Maybe I should get a second opinion.
Helen

£1000+.
Sorry I have no help for you but my 9 yo bitch went in at 7 at night with Pyo, and was operated on at 9am the next morning (Came home with me the night before) and it cost about £400, that was for a Rottie cross.
Hope all goes well
Lea :)

I agree where the heck does £1,000+ come from, that is totally wrong and if that is seriously what he would charge then please change vets!

The only possible reason he may feel the need to operate now is if he feels a real possibility of pyo coming on, why don't you take your bitch for a second opinion to see whether it is worth the risk of waiting until a week after the due date or even longer for a spay, if that is what you wish to do anyway.

Another vet will also do a scan at your request, vets are used to people having second opinons so don't worry about that and hearing from two different vets will be of great help to you to make the right decision. :-)

I thought it was a bit steep. He told me a normal spay was £250 if they are 6 months old but as shes older she needs to be on a drip whilst its being done so that adds another £100 on to the cost.
I rang them at 6a.m.  (that surgery is manned 24 hours) & told them I wanted to put it off. I did ask him how likely was it to turn into a pyo and he said was no indication that is was at moment. But there was a slight possibility that it might. Or may be problems at her next season. He did say he is in favour of spaying bitches after first season to prevent problems later on. I asked him what if a pup has been missed high up on the scan it wouldnt be the first time. He didnt seem too impressed by that. I saw him 2.5 yrs ago when she had her last litter as she needed a jab to get 2nd one out. He was great then. Maybe just had his grumpy head on yesterday.
This morning shes fine eating ++ and drinking normally, happy enough. Im keeping a record of her temp. I changed vet 3 years ago because my other one was the other side of town and if it was an emergency it would be a nightmare in rush hour.

So what is the rush to have her spayed now then?????????

I think it is best to wait until her hormones, milk etc settle down most vets will spay after 1st season given a preference, but also most would prefer to spay inbetween two seasons, (usually 1st and 2nd for hormone reasons) in the middle of an aborted or perhaps live pregnancy seems strange, he may well have his reasons, hopefully pedlee has a sheep scanner lined up for you there ;-) I'd have a look at that personally, and go from there.

Hi Helen
How big is your bitch?  She must be HUGE to have been quoted such a ridiculous amount!  A couple of years ago one of my RRs had to have an emergency spay due to pyometra and that cost about £400.  I thought that was expensive enough!  £1000 - wow. 

Ridgie, if you look at the posters details, you can see what she has, so who knows where that price has come from??????????????

Yikes, £1000 to spay a toy breed. Do they sew them up with gold thread?!?!

M.

Unbelievable isn't it!!

Shes a 7lb Yorkie!!!! 

I did look at your profile - but thought you must have something huge as well (I've go an Aussie as well as my RRs).  £1000 for a Yorkie is unbelievable!!  I think I might look at changing vets - that is just extortionate.

I had an emergency spay for pyo in an elderly deeerhound a few years back. Cost was about £150

Can you perhaps get to see one of the sheep scanners who are very skilled in scanning dogs? I'd trust the one I use far more to tell me what's going on inside than my vet, both from the point of confirming any singleton pregnancy and uterine health.

M.

Ive seen posts before reccomending sheep scanners. Im in Watford so if anyone knows of one a reasonable distance away I'd be grateful.

I've PM'd you details. She will visit you at home.

I thought the extra £100 for the drip was a bit much. Out of curiosity I will ring other vets and see what they charge. Im definately going to wait and going to ring the sheep scanner. Thank you for the pms with her number. Im checking her temp reg ~ last check was 37.6. Also last night he said I'm only going to charge you for a scan and antibiotics today (£130) and I thought but thats all youve done what else could you charge me for.

£130 for a scan and antibiotics for a 7lb dog ...

M.

£130 rip off .
my dog had antibiotics and scan in june 06 and the cost was £61.76 i have recipt here and eris is a 40kilo gsd

Some serious overcharging here, unless there are other factors involved, I thought only car mechanics did that to women :rolleyes:

Yes, your suggestion of enquiring at other surgeries is something I would be doing. A scan on my medium dog with a full health check only cost £25, which some of my colleagues thought expensive.

Yep I think you are right. My Mum paid £22 for both her puppies vaccination jabs & £12 for her booster. She lived in N Ireland I pay £78 for 1st vaccinations. I liked the idea of this surgery being open 24 hrs the nurses man downstairs and the vet on call is in the flat above. Think I am def going to ring round and make some enquirys. I think generaly vets are pretty dear in this area from what I hear.

Those vaccinations sound expensive, although your Mum's sound really cheap. :)  Sounds like you're definitely paying a premium for the 24 hours service so I suppose it is down to what is most important to you, lower, more reasonable prices or being able to be treated by your own vet no matter what time of day or night.

i live in n.ireland also , i took my bitch to be scanned and was told it was £20.. but nothing much showed up in the scan so he only charged me £10 told me to bring her back in 2 1/2 weeks and he would charge me the other £10 .thought that was very nice of him.. considering this wasnt my normal vet ( my own didnt have a scanner) which i did and to my delight he counted at least 5 puppies..
general prices here for a scan seems to be between £20 - £30

it seems that ireland is cheaper than england but i would check some other vets for prices.... its clear this vet is boggin his arm.

also the prices for your mums jabs ,is the same as what i pay

good luck with your girl...

Thanks to the people that pm'd me with sheep scanners number. I have phoned and spoke to her Mum ~ she comes to Watford on a Wednesday. So she is booked to come then. I never thought I'd get one round here. Ive only used the out of hours vet at my surgery once. Last time Ellie had pups she was a bit restless the day after and temp was up very slightly. I rang and they said bring her in. They gave her quick once over did a swab and looked at it under the microscope (that took 5 mins). Found nothing wrong gave her an antibiotic jab just to be on safe side. Said prob just bit restless because first litter etc. For that they charged £220.  The swab was £85. As for being out of hours it was 7.45 p.m. so I was charged an extra £70. That goes up if its after 10pm I dont know what to.

Ir  had a yorkie that had pyo a few years ago. It took a week to diagnose and she had had to stay in for a short time and my vet bill was still no where near £1000!
Hope your girl is ok.
jane

These charges do seem excessive.  The BVA have a leaflet about charges and how to go about quering them including how to report the matter to the RCVS.

Hi just being cheeky here but does anyone know of a scanner in the Hampshire area??

I dont know what to.


Well Helen, if you are financially secure and the money really doesn't matter much, then don't worry about it.

Otherwise I would definitely change vets, Watford as lovely as it may be I would not count as being one of the most expensive places to live.

I've lived all over the place from central London and many of it's surrounding counties and I have never seen charges like this, as I've said if you are happy to pay it, then fine ;-) but what a liberty compared to the rest of the country and London counties, I'm mystified.

Horrendous overcharging!  My 8 year old Golden was spayed as an emergency with a pyo last year. Can't remember the exact price but I got change from £200.00 and they are very good Vets to boot.

I have just been checking up on other local vets with some friends. I am going to change. What I couldnt understand was why a spay would be £250 + £100 for a drip unless I asked for him not to put up a drip (why would I if it was needed) but if it wasnt done today and she develops a pyo then he said it would cost roughly £1000 ~ he didnt explain why. At the time I was just shocked that he wanted to spay asap. I wanted to wait til after her due date. He seemed to think that was a ridiculous suggestion. Yet his only reason for spaying straight away was that "she might have a pyo at some time in the future maybe at her next season. I only wanted to wait a month or so as long as she kept well. Obviously if she developed a Temp or  I was at all concerned I would have taken her back sooner.
BUT why would a routine spay be £350 & one for pyo be £1000. Origionaly when I said I dont know what to do I meant wether to go for the spay today or not i really wanted to wait but wanted to know what others advised. When I said I thought they were dear in this area ~ I was comparing the prices to where my Mother used to live.
Helen

I think you have done the right thing.  If she had been ill then yes, I would have plumped for getting her spayed quickly, but as she is well in herself, then it really should be done mid season.  This this Vet was definitely 'taking the Michael'.

Well, from the response that you have given and the explanation from the vet, I would personally hold off the spay for now. It is beginning to feel to me a little like blackmail to be so bold as to say it, but that is what it feels like, "if you don't do it now, it may cost upto £1,000??? " I don't like it at all. Never mind the price, (which there is no reason for at all) there also seems to be no reason to do the spay right now.

See the sheep scanner, who may also put their two pennyworth in too, you'll make up your own mind about the practise and decide if it is the one for you, but the spay seems to be fine to hold off from what you have said, especially if you were planning another litter if this one has been aborted, perhaps a second opinion as to how your bitch is for breeding again would be advisable rather than rushing in for a spay, if you did not really want one.

I knew when I posted on here last night I would get the right advice. Thank You to you all!  Have made a shortlist of other surgeries + I am going to ring round + ask a few questions before I make my mind up. Ellie very perky tonight so I'm happy I made the right decision for the moment.

Vet wise Watford is a horrendously expensive place, and all the surrounds on the way into London   A lot of the Practices are now linked through large groups and boy do they charge, there was always a joke in the area that both the sports car dealerships & the swimming pool guys know all the vets personally having sold them so much  Some of the practices have terrible attitudes, insisting on keeping in overnight for really minor things etc just to really bump up the cost... I do blame insurance for much of this attitude, but that is just my opinion and I do think Insurance does good in many cases.... in fact just don't get me started on Vets costs lol

I have only just read this post with utter amazement at your vet prices.
Change your vet!
I pay for my Weims £175 for a 40kilo bitch to be spayed and £145 for 25 kilo bitch.
I pay £32 for vaccines.
I pay £98 for hip scoring under sedation. Plus BVA fees on top.  Just to give you some figures here.

I changed my vets the other year to this new one because the old one gave me lots of wrong advice, and also was charging a lot more money.  The vet I am with now is not only cheaper but brilliant. 

Also you do not have to go with what your vet says with your dog. Seek always a second opionon at a different vets if you are not happy.  If they are local though do be warned that they quite often back up other vets.  So maybe dont say you have been to another vets.  If vets are local to each other quite often they all know each other.

Rachel

My advice at the moment would be to wait but watch your girl very carefully.
If she has had a course of antibiotics and she is well in herself ,eating ,no temperature,not drinking too much,no smelly discharge, I would let nature take its course. I have done this and thankfully all was well but it was with my Vets backing.Hope your girl is OK soon.

I find it quite alarming that a Vet wants to spay a potentially in whelp bitch and the price...astonishing I hope your bitch is OK.

any further news on your bitch?

Shes fine at the moment. Seems quite perky today. Temp 37.5. Eating and drinking normally. No more bleeding today (tho was last night as my sons friend found out when she jumped up on his lap ~ he was wearing light coloured trousers too:rolleyes:) I felt awful. He had to go home and change before they went out.

My friend had her LM bitch spayed in October at a practice around Coventry and she paid £130, it was a bit cheaper as Ella was under 30kg.   I would definitely phone around and even consider one of the cheap spay clinics & travel to it as it would be cheaper than what your vet is quoting!

Glad Ellie is still perky and really pleased that you have asked questions of the vet concerned. I was a bit too gullible with my previous vet and paid a high price.  Reading up on here I see just how much more wisdom there is on CD forum than in some veterinary practices.

Do let us know how things develop & I'll be rooting for you and Ellie.

What we must remember that a Vets area is the diagnosis, treatment and possibly prevention of disease in animals.  Unless it is a particular interest or speciality they generally know little about breeding other than how to step in when there are problems.  Few have even seen a straightforward whelping.  This may incline them to be over interventionistd.

Thats a very good point Brainless. I had been with my previous vet for 22 years. They were a very large practice and if at all possible I asked for a particular lady vet. She bred JRTs. With hindsight she was probably my ideal choice.  I only changed because I now live the other side of Watford and If I had to get to them in rush hour it would be very difficult.