My girl is 4 1/2 weeks in-whelp, and I'm hearing for and against for worming while she is carrying the pups, some saying do nothing until pups are about 3 weeks then do mum & pups together unless worms are seen before that time or start worming the bitch daily with Panacure liquid for 10 days  from 40 days in-whelp, just wondered what opinions are on here? Thanks

When was she last wormed?

5 months ago with drontal

My vet advises against the Panacur regime. I just worm with Drontal in pregnancy and again when I worm the pups. I've not had a wormy litter though I think that is possibly because I worm bitch puppies very, very thoroughly until they ar 6 months when they go on the adult regime.

It was my vet's receptionist that says to use Panacur in pregnancy, shows how even vets differ!! but why do I feel doubt?
Jas - do you use the normal adult dose of regular Drontal worming or would it be a puppy drontal? and have you had absolutely no problems with it?

I'm so worried about putting any unneccesary risk of chemicals at such a crucial time for mum and tiny puppies at this stage she'll be 40 days next week.but also I know a possible worm burden is bad too!

My vet thinks the Panacur regime is over-kill for my bitches as I have several generatiosn now that have been wormed to the nth degree as puppies and I worm before mating. I just give the normal dose of adult Drontal before mating and during pregnancy and I've never had a problem.

But as JG says, talk it over with your vet. If your bitch wasn't very thoroughly wormed as a puppy and wasn't wormed before mating Panacur from 40 days might be the best way to go.

As far as I was aware Panacur is the only wormer licensed for use in pregnancy.

I have now used it for five generations of pregnancies (6th generation born).

The regime is from day 40 to 2 days after whelping.  1/4ml per kg bodyweight, so 5ml for a 20kg bitch daily.

Ask your vet. Drontal needs to be given every three months at longest so really she should have been wormed before mating. But that's irrelevant now. As you know, pregnancy hormones activate the encysted worms so she'll be busily infecting her puppies. Discuss with your vet which products you should use and when.

i had my girl to the vets last week for a check up and a scan ,( she is due in just under two weeks ) i asked him for a wormer for her and he gave me drontal and told me to use it straight away, and not to wait until the puppies are born.

Thanks all for your opinions.

hi in response to your heat pad thread I do use a single electric blanket. They are cheap and have different settings so you can adjust. I also only use it at one end of the inflatable paddling pool/whelping box so mum can stay cool if she wants. check out argos.

Surely these would be dangerous as they get wet?

yes sorry i didnt explain that well. I put a puppy training pad or rather i bought adult incontinence sheets (much cheaper than puppy pads)and put one of these between the vet bed and blanket. The heat does get through.

:rolleyes:I worm my bitches with panacur from day 40 till 2 days post whelp. I don't use panacur to worm pups though as have a couple of bad experiences in the past. I worm the pups at 2,4,6,8 weeks with drontal. People have different worming regimes and as long as you are comfortable with the one you choose that is fine. My way is no better or worse than any other on here and I wouldn't argue for or against any worming regime.

I do mine with Drontal at 3,5 & 7 weeks.

I'm the same as Chocaholic- worm pups at 3, 5, 7 weeks :-)  I usually worm the bitch as soon as she comes into season- before being mated :-)  Never had a problem (touch wood) with worms :-)

Stacey x

Thanks for all your opinions, I decided to worm her till 2 days post whelp.
Just another question, which is a good milk replacer? hopefully I won't need it at all, but in the event of emergency, according to TBOTB evaporated milk 3 parts to one of water, or Lactol or Whelpi, I am hearing goats milk is not rich enough would that be correct?
Really appreciating your answers, thanks.

Goat's milk is great for after weaning, if you want to give your pups milk, but for a bitch's milk replacer, I'd rather use a product such as Whelpi or Lactol, or one made by another manufacturer rather than a home made one.  I used one made by Royal Canin years ago but I don't know if they still do it.

I use Panacur from day 40 to 2 days post whelp.  I've never seen any worms, and I do the normal 3 day regime for pups at 14 days, 5 weeks, and 8 weeks.  Any pup that is staying, is given the 3 day course again at week 12.  I know a lot of people say they have had problems with Panacur, but I have used it for all my girls, and never had a moments worry.  This is for a very tiny breed.  I suppose, like lots of others on here, if it works for you, you stay with what you're happy with.

never worm in whelp.willworm her just before or on day one of season.then she worm every two weeks when the puppie are wormed 357weeks or this time 468 weeks

All my dogs are treated monthly with Stronghold for worms/fleas/parasites so should stay completely worm free.  I use Milbemax 6 monthly for some of the parasites less common not covered by stronghold as that covers for tapeworm whipworm, hookworm, heartworm (it does also cover ringworm).  My vet has advised me to (& I've just started to use) Panacure paste for the puppies at 2,5,8 & 12 weeks.  I am seeing the vet tomorrow so will ask about introducing stronghold as this can actually be used frojm 6 weeks old - although obviously if using one you would not use the other.

Half of this regime is my old vets (Mum) & half is new (pups)  so I will tell you how I get on and if the new opinion varies.

Good luck.

Wormers will not touch encysted larvae, which is what is activated in the bitch during pregnancy and passed through the placenta to the pups, ergo all pups will be born with worms.

Now if the dam, and generations before her were very well wormed during puppy hood, or even before birth then they will have less encysted larva to pass onto their offspring.

Hi Mum of many,

I have found that Lactol is really hard to mix properly. I use either Chudleys Starter Milk or Skinners puppy milk, out of the two Chudleys mixes really well and the bitches tolerate it without becoming runny also. It can be ordered on line by typing in Dodson & Horrell into google.

Can a children's digital ear thermometer be used in a dog's ear, will it give the correct reading?

I doubt it.  They are referred to as tympanic meters because they get quite close to the ear drum and reflect (I think ;)) infra red rays onto it, this would not be the case with a dogs ear which is very differently constructed.  There really is only one place for a dog ;)

ok just went to chemist and got a normal thermometer how long do you reckon to hold it there...a minute?
thanks Isabel

I use an digital one that beeps when it get it's reading.  Is yours a glass one? I think you have to leave them at least three minutes but it may be longer it is a long time since I used one of them.  If it is a glass one it is important it is one designed for rectal use and the mouth ones are not always strong enough.  

You need to get a special rectal thermometer, preferably a veterinary one - they're stronger and are calibrated for the temperatures of different species. They also have detailed instructions for use - with some it's important that they're not in contact with the rectal wall, but with others it doesn't matter so much.

How do you avoid the rectal wall?

By inserting it straight, and not at an angle! :D

Ah, I think you mean avoid jabbing the wall.  You can't avoid making contact with the wall because the rectum is a potential space ie it doesn't open up until something pushes through, one way or another ;)

No, it usually contains some poo, as evidenced by needing to wipe the thermometer when it's removed ;) The thermometer bulb can be within poo, but not touching the rectal wall itself.

Mmmmm not sure about this JG.  The rectum can be empty if they have recently voided and the skill of jabbing it neatly into the centre of a poo sounds a bit high level even for a vet :D   I can't really see why any glass thermometer cannot be in contact with the lining of the rectum it is inert and non porous but I suppose if you coat it well with vasolene you could avoid it happening :)

I'm only repeating the manufacturer's instructions. :) The reasoning is that the rectum has many blood vessels and contact can give a false reading.

Mmmm I wonder if they are calibrated differently then because I always thought it was as close the bloods temperature that we were trying to record.  Well good luck to anyone buying that type I say, that poo splitting is too technical for my skills :)

It's actually very easy. Like I said, just insert it straight. :)

And hang on, coz they can 'go upwards' I believe

Well, today is day 63 from the first mating, and nothing is happening. She is a bit quiet today, and looking very full poor girl. How much longer is safe for her to go now as I have read that too long and the pups won't survive. She was mated 2 days apart. I think I'll give my vet a call right now anyway as we are going into the weekend. My first litter and I think I'm starting to worry!

ps her temperature is 37.4

Hi Mum of many,
any news yet??

Good Luck!

No not yet! Maybe tonight? Thanks. I'm sure I'll be back here asking more silly questions.

We have had an extremely busy morning!!

5 girls and 4 boys but another one was stillborn.

One of the boys is very small and weak, any advice greatly appreciated with what to do,,...
all I've been able to do is help him feed from mum by squeezing some milk onto the nipple to encourage him but he is not that interested, although he has had a little go.
Should I supplement him with a bottle and how much should I give him? He only weighs 7 1/2 ozs compared to the biggest which is 15 oozs

thanks

Just to say he is perking up and feeding ok now.

Congrats on the new arrivals & sorry for the loss of the one.  For the little lad what I would do is get one of the bigger pups to get the milk pumping through the back teat then remove it onto another & put the little one on there & just hold him on to help him.  I had a pup like this with my last litter (although they were all smaller than average as a week early) & I didn't think she'd survive but by doing the above she soon got the hang of it & thrived :)  Sometimes I think the little pups can be tired from the delivery & just take a bit longer to get themselves sorted.  As long as Mum is ok with him, ie, not pushing him away then he should be fine :)

Enjoy your babies :D

congrats mum of many sorry to hear that u lost one,
now YOU really are mum of many ,,lol
good luck !

He is still here, so fingers crossed! and mum is looking after him well.

Brilliant news about your babies, congratulations. You no doubt will feel like a zombie soon though ! Make sure the little one is feeding, hind teats are the best, if he doesn't seem to want to go to mum to feed, move him towards her and express a little milk of the teat. Hold him onto the teat, you may need to open his mouth to put the teat in and gentle support of his head may be needed, i would suggest you keep a close eye on him and make sure he is fed every 2 hours for the time being. Keep him warm also and make sure mum cleans him to stimulate to pass urine and poo.

personally I would not feed him myself if mum is able to do this.

Best of luck with your new arrivals  x

The little lad is doing fine. They are gaining weight daily, pooing and weeing and getting more adorable every day.
Just 2 questions please:

1. I know they need their nails trimmed - when do I start? They are 4 days old, I'm thinking to start nipping the white tips tomorrow when I weigh them, then how often, once a week?
2. Mum is free to get in and out of the whelping box and spends most of her time there feeding, cleaning ,keeping them warm, I have to encourage her out to toilet and to eat, she was never a greedy girl and I want to keep her at a good weight. Is it too early to have a short walk to give her a break? or do I just follow what she wants to do.

thank you

To be honest, I would only worry about trimming nails if they are a problem or catching mum....so with some it will be weekly and others may be more or less??? With regards to mum going out...I would never, ever walk a bitch ANYWHERE who is going back to pups! Back garden or home territory only! They can and do 'carry' virus and disease back to the pups...don't know what others do??? All the best and congratulations...by the way...I would be very careful of visitors too...take shoes off at front door and no walking in them to where the pups go...but maybe I'm just too picky?? regards, Dawn.

I never encourage my bitches away from theri pups for at least the first 10 days, it is loo breaks and back to the babies. 

I also feed them in their whelping box, and give them water there too.

They have a huge job to do so the least distractions the better.