Hi

Not really sure what to do about this one. I have never walked a bitch in season. Up till now i have had JRS that have been happy to play in the garden when they are in season and it hasnt been a problem. But now i have a whippet who needs a daily run or she is awfull to live with and it has to be a good of the lead run were she can really get up to full spead and enjoy her self.

I can put her in the car and take her to places that I am unlikely to meet other dogs but cant do this every day as I dont drive and have to rely on hubby being home in day light hours.

I can take her up the field as normal and just hope I dont bump into another dog. Some time during the day I dont see anyone but if I do this is it fair to other dog walkers. I dont think it is and I would be terrified to let her of the lead just in case. And because she is use to a daily run she expects it and starts getting agitated after lunch.

Help lol I dont think I am going to cope with the next 3 weeks. She is just starting to show today,her first season to and I just know she will bring the Russel in who is due about now. I love dogs lol

Wendy

It's tricky and I think you have to play it by ear.  A lot will depend on your neighbourhood and the available facilities.  I used to walk mine along the canal path as any approaching entire dog, once the owner was alerted, could more easily be rounded up than if in the open space of a field or on the beach where I might normally be walking.  Few dogs seem entire round here anyway.  My neighbourhood is pleasantsville really :) so I rarely, well never, meet people that think it unreasonable for a bitch to get a little exercise and always seem willing to co-operate, it's also pretty quiet and I can sometimes complete a walk without meeting anyone. I also have another home in a holiday area though, where you meet allsorts :rolleyes: and it's regarded as perfectly normal to have your dog always off the lead even in the streets.  Walking late at night can work but it can also move you into deliquent hour :(  Since living there I have found it easy just to have my bitch spayed, although thankfully we had no more plans to breed from her.

I know its awful for them when they are in season, but personally I don't walk them every day. 
I live on a main road, and a LOT of people walk their dogs passed my house - its like a 'block' walk :rolleyes: and the last thing I want is dogs sniffing around, following a scent to my door.
I suppose its ok if you live in a small suburban area, or village etc but where I live its not advisable. Too  many off lead dogs aswell that could come 'calling' on us
Plenty of play exercise, playing 'fetch' in the garden etc, or using the time I would normally take her out, for training - stops her from missing the walks too much. Or if I am still up around 2 am I will take her out then, making sure she doesnt do a 'toilet' stop too near our house :)

Do you think they can't catch the scent of her in your garden anyway? :) 

Oh I know they can, that also backs onto a main road :rolleyes: But its securely fenced and they are never out on their own when in season :) as we also have a male dog next door! (don't want any staffiebergers) ;)

What I mean is, it's not worth worrying about leave a scent to the house because the passerbys know what's going on anyway :)  I suppose because there are less latchkey dogs these days but we have never had many callers.  Just one small Jack Russell that I recall who would occasionally escape and come and present his suit at the front door in such a humble fashion I felt cruel declining his offer but his owner would come and scoop him up when I phoned them no bother :)

My dogs would go stir crazy if kept in all day, and if i tried to walk one without the other I think there wouldn't be much of a home to come back to!

I always keep mine on a lead from about day 5 or whenever they seem 'receptive' to male dogs - you can tell usually.

Most dog owners are Ok but a very small minority are a bit victorian and consider it Ok to let their 'entire' male dog go uncontrolled whilst they think my bitch should be kept in out of sight. I always warn any dog owners who I don't know if their dog looks as if it might be taking an interest as once they've had a lick you can't get them away ....

>Most dog owners are Ok but a very small minority are a bit victorian and consider it Ok to let their 'entire' male dog go uncontrolled whilst they think my bitch should be kept in out of sight

As the bitch would be the one to produce a litter, IMO that's the most responsible course of action :) 

Having always owned a mix of entire dogs and bitches at the same time, I think I'm able to see this situation very clearly from both sides and think there's nothing "victorian" about what you describe at all - any dog or bitch, however well trained, responds instinctively during a season.  By the time you'd got close enough to establish if an off lead dog was entire or have it's owner in earshot, both dog and bitch would be very aware of each others breeding / receptive status!

regards, Teri :)

I don't think any dog off lead should be allowed to approach another on a lead. it may be on a lead for all sorts of reasons, seasons or aggression. I too have owned male and female dogs and would never allow one of mine running free to get too close to another whose owner had it on a lead - there are all sorts of instincts dogs have as you say and our job is to manage them as best we can.

>I don't think any dog off lead should be allowed to approach another on a lead

In an ideal world neither do I :)  However I take *full* responsibility for my own dogs - of both genders - and certainly wouldn't depend on other owners' training regimes to ensure MY in season bitches didn't fall foul of a misalliance :)

>and would never allow one of mine running free to get too close to another whose owner had it on a lead

As intimated earlier, despite the best recall in the world instincts can overtake animals - anyone IMO who believes they have 100% control over their dog(s) 100% of the time is either naive /deluded or, more probably, has simply as yet failed to meet the situation / set of circumstances where they would be proven wrong!  

But it is possible when the dog owner is on board to help make it work.  I know this first hand because despite walking my bitches for 20 years in one area I never had any difficulties it was only when I moved in to another area that is proved quite impossible.    There is definately something different in the attitude to shared responsibilities demonstrated in these two very different places and I suppose I could see a similarly in the latter area's, apparent, attitude to it's all down to the girls as "'Victorian" :)

>But it is possible when the dog owner is on board to help make it work

Not good enough for my standards Isabel - certainly not when I have, by choice, kept entire bitches :)  I should think it scant consolation to anyone that ended up with an unintentioned mating that "at least the other owner tried to help"  -  but failed ;)

>I suppose I could see a similarly in the latter area's, apparent, attitude to it's all down to the girls as "'Victorian" 

Just shows - takes all kinds!  Because on the contrary I find it less a Victorian attitude by owners of entire males than it is a modern day attitude of passing on the buck/ failing to accept responsibility by owners of in season bitches :)

But they have, by choice, kept an entire dog :)  I have always felt when you choose to keep any entire animal you have certain responsibilites.  Fortunately I seem to be living, mostly, in an area where the other owners seem to feel the same :)  What a shame that people everywhere aren't the same, they certainly aren't at my other home :(

>But they have, by choice, kept an entire dog

As have I :)  The pertinent word being *DOG*  -  as in, not a robot :P

Bitches are not robots either and can't be turned off when they are looking for a little exercise.  It just takes a little co-operation and neither should find their lives ruined over this little interference from nature :)

>Bitches are not robots either and can't be turned off when they are looking for a little exercise

Agreed :)  But they can be exercised and stimulated mentally at home - it's only for 3 weeks a couple of times a year or less, so hardly involving the "ruination of their lives" LOL.  As you say, it is a little interference from nature whereas for the entire male it could be many weeks or months of the year - even a daily event if unfortunate enough to live in the location of enough entire bitches whose owners were sufficiently relaxed about their duty of care and responsibility for their own animals :)

I have spaniels, not the types to really enjoy exercise at home, their love is to be out in the countryside amongst the smells. 
We obviously have a differing opinion on care and responsibility of entire animals and I certainly do not consider myself overly relaxed, I do what I feel is necessary but I expect other owners of entire animals to take some responsibility too.
The are very few entire bitches around here as the vast majority of people seem to have them spayed having no interest in showing or breeding.  I think this may be fairly typical of the country as a whole and even the entire ones are only in season a few weeks a year so I very much doubt it would be something many dog owner would find to be a daily occurance.  I have never had any signs of resentment from the owners I have met here they all seem to take on the attitude it is something for us both to be watchful over, I think I must be more lucky living here that I really appreciated.

I'd certainly be suprised if my pastoral breed was less interested in the great out doors than a breed such as your own Isabel :)  I haven't had one lose the plot or the will to live based on 3 weeks confinement though :D

>We obviously have a differing opinion on care and responsibility of entire animals

Agreed - clearly and without question :)

Being fortunate enough to live where I do I nevertheless - along with other local responsible owners - find that our vast open green spaces, bordering river walks and moorlands is inundated with visiting dog walkers, not all of whom can be relied upon to have the much required knowledge of good husbandry and manners :)

Still, as life is - or should be - an ongoing learning curve, we live in hope ;)

>find that our vast open green spaces, bordering river walks and moorlands is inundated with visiting dog walkers, not all of whom can be relied upon to have the much required knowledge of good husbandry and manners

Well, this is what I found with my second home also.  It turns out there are advantages to living in suburban pleasantsville after all :)  which is why I said to the OP they would have to estimate their own neighbourhood and I maintain that in some areas you do find the required cooperation, I have enjoyed a great many years of it :)

Looking at the other thread about keeping dogs in cages by Americans - obviously they find that works for them.  So I can see that some people think thats OK. I happen not to, and I beleive thats its your responsibility to keep your animal under control if you've made the choice to keep the animal entire (either male or female).

Clearly opinions differ on this but I agree that in most cases the animals are either other bitches, neutered/spayed/not interested or the owners cooperate.

>Looking at the other thread about keeping dogs in cages by Americans - obviously they find that works for them.

The more important question is whether it works for the dogs. Their well-being is more important than the owners, because the dogs have no choice in the matter.

Absolutely - my point indeed.

I would never dream of walking an in season bitch where dogs had a right to be off lead.

I am afraid it is road walking for in season bitches only, and having had three om in on the trot that has meant up to 9 weeks of it, but they are OK, just the walks need to be longer.

Hi Wendy - going through this here at the moment so I can appreciate the frustrations for K9s and bi-peds alike!

I have a high energy (erm, read manically high maintenance :D ) breed which although a pastoral member is in many ways similar in mental and physical make-up to sight hounds ;)  When in season my girls are confined from day 7 or 8 (if not before) until after day 25.  This does them no harm whatsoever and IMO is the lesser evil.  Many owners of entire bitches leave exercise to very late at night or well into the wee small hours, but even then, restricted by a lead in case of meeting up with other dogs (there's many an anti-social beast - human and canine - to be found out and about at weird and wonderful times).

Bear in mind that when ready to stand many, if not most bitches, will do everything in their power to find a mate so off lead exercise outwith my own property is an absolute no-no :)  It's often incorrectly assumed that entire males are the only ones which are unable to contain the basic instincts towards procreation so even were you to find what seemed a suitably dog-free area to exercise your girl you could well find that she'd take off in search of fulfilling her own needs.

The decision of course is entirely personal but I thought I'd assure you that even the most energetic and exercise obsessed youngster can be kept safely, calmly and happily in confinement - it takes a bit of imagination and supervision of course but is perfectly do-able.

regards, Teri 

I don't have a problem now, (as we've moved) but when we lived on a rather large private estate, which when we first moved in had very few dogs, and by the time we left as more houses were built seemed to have hundereds, hubby or I with eldest son used to go out at 5.30am to give our girl a good hour and a half run off lead before the neighbours surfaced and then hubby would take her for an on the lead walk approx 10pm, so we did our best to avoid all other dogs and were very successful.

If you can't do that or don't fancy it, then personally I would keep her on lead or a very long line for the next 3 weeks, as already said it depends on your area as to how you play it.

If you live where there are many entire dogs it is probably best to restrict her to garden exercise as much as possible, if you don't fancy a 5.30am start as it will send all entire dogs crazy and believe me if they are out and about, they will find you.

When I kept entire bitches I exercised them during their seasons at unsociable hours by driving to open spaces (where there was no opportunity to come across another dog unexpectedly!) in places where I knew there was very little chance of meeting another dog anyway. My bitch, my responsibility. :)

i once tried taking my bitch to the park- on her lead on her first day of season and was mobbed by about 10 dogs (all castrated) who wouldnt leave her alone and owners woudnt call them off. since then i always walk to an area where dogs are on lead ( green area surrounded by busy road) and dont meet anyone up close but i learned my lesson!

Yep bitches can be just as interested in an in season bitch, and if she is on lead she will be uncomfortable about the attention.  the person with the off lead dog hasn't the knowledge that your dog is super interesting.

When I see people with food or kids with an ice cream I know to be vigilant and to remind my dogs not to go near, but when someone has a bitch in season the other owner isn't privy to this info, and the harm is often already done.  Next time their usually well mannered male may decide he wants to check out every dog to see if they don't smell as tantalising as yours did, and months and years of training can be set back.

Why should the person with the entire bitch expect others to be affected?

Entire males can live quite blissfully entire and unaware of what they are missing. 

A Friend had to have his West Siberian Laika male castrated due to one neighbour being irresponsible and another simply having an entire bitch.  He lives in a flat and there is a communal garden.

Since castration the dog has tended to putting on weight, which he never did before.  From a purely aesthetic view point he no longer carries the particularly characteristic male coat.  His owner regrets the need to have him castrated, especially as within a few months one bitch died and the other was spayed.

I just do more onlead walking with bitches in season.

I would never expect any male dog owner to alsways be thinking "that bitch running free might be in season" and if you want to try and call a male dog away from the scent of a bitch in season then forget it!  it will never happen, not to the most obedient of entire dogs!

I would hope we all keep our bitches on lead but that does not make it any likelier the dog will not notice ;)

I have a very energetic working-type Aussie girl who usually gets at least 4 hours exercise a day. She has just (thankfully!) come out of season. I was getting up at 5am 5 days a week to go for a 1.5 hour run with her (in the dark). She was attached by lead to my waist and we ran where I know we won't meet dogs. Other days I got up that early and threw a ball for her in a field nearby which is partially lit by streetlight. At night (10pm) we took her by car to the river where she had a good swim/play with the ball (glad her eyesight is better than mine!). This also cleaned her up a bit . Other than that she was in the house or in our garden with me supervising.

It was actually REALLY hard work (OH and I both work full time - even though I work from home a lot) and I can honestly say I'm totally shattered after 4 weeks (can't wait for a lie in this weekend!). But IMO any other way would have been totally unfair on the other dog owners - they can't know she's in season and they can't be expeected to keep control of their dogs with that nice a smell around :-). My bitch also gets quite 'assertive' during seasons (when she's not receptive) so I wouldn't trust her with bitches either.

I can appreciate that those who do not take their bitches out at all can question those of us that do but I cannot see how anyone that does can.  As I see it we all do the utmost we can, based on our experience of our area, to meet the least possible dogs and I think it might have been quite enough to tell the OP what has worked for you rather than critisise what others have found works for them.  I don't think anyone going out at anytime can guarantee that they will not meet another dog so 'any other way' is no less responsible if people are doing what they consider to be the best way of avoiding meetings.  I wonder what you would do if a dog detected your bitch in the darkness and she detected him, do you keep her on a long line when she is playing/in the water?
Appologies for questioning your methods but I would not have done if you had not thought it necessary to question others who put at least as much thought into theirs.

To be honest I didn't question anyone elses methods ... I said what has worked for me and IMO going out at times when you are most likely to meet other dogs is not fair on the other dogs. I haven't criticised/been sarcastic - just stated what I think is fair.

And yes, she is was on a long line while playing in the water.

Appologies :) I read 'any other way' as literally 'any other way' than yours.  I'm sure none of our poster would dream of going out when they are likely to meet dogs, it would be more trouble than it is worth for a start :)