I had a big argument on another forum recently.
The majority of members (who are american btw) seem to think it is perfectly ok for a dog to be crated for 8 hours a day whilst they are at work.They justify it by saying they get all the attention in the evening whilst they are home.I then asked if their dogs were crated at night.When some said yes,I asked them did they realise that this worked out that their dogs were crated for a total of 16 hours a day.The thread was locked shortly afterwards as no-one wanted to answer.
I think its too long and unfair on the animal.

What do you guys think??
How long is too long??

No dog should be crated for longer than the owner can last without needing the lavatory.

Oh thank you JG,its good to be back amongst like-minded people. :D Who actually have common sense lol :)

But JG I can last alot longer then I would leave my dogs for! :D  Think of us younguns with strong bladders! :D  That rule can't apply or my poor dogs would be left 7 hours nope wouldn't do it to them.  7 hours a day maybe...7 hours without a run in the garden...nope!

Oh I agree, some people can last quite a while without needing the loo! I too can last some time; but there's nothing worse than needing the loo and not being able to find one (stuck in a traffic jam, for example) and it sounds as though those people on the US fora think that's okay for their dogs! But as a rule if a person needs to go, then the dog might be uncomfortable too. The people who crate their dogs for long hours should try only using their home loo for a few days (having to come back from work when they need to 'go' and not using the work ones, or just hanging on) and see how they like it.

Edit: Lucky you with the young bladder - the day will come surprisingly soon when it stops cooperating with you! ;) :D :D

>Lucky you with the young bladder - the day will come surprisingly soon when it stops cooperating with you!

I know I know I'm making the most of it! :D I shall be prepared....one day! :D

Oh JG...........if only there was an emotion for hanging onto sides laughing......gee thanks now I need the loo.................oh to be young again :D :D :D

Expectant CD ladies....DO the pelvic floor exercises as if your life depended on it ;) ;) :D :D

>  the day will come surprisingly soon when it stops cooperating with you

And some people can go all day without the loo because they don't drink anything :D :D :D

Daisy

That is the only way I can do it, otherwise I need to pee all the time, but it is very unhealthy .

Oh I agree, some people can last quite a while without needing the loo! I too can last some time; but there's nothing worse than needing the loo and not being able to find one (stuck in a traffic jam, for example) and it sounds as though those people on the US fora think that's okay for their dogs!

And I don't know about everyone else, but if I have to wait TOO long, I get cystitis instantly. I know in cats if urine inside a bladder is held for too long it  becomes stale and that causes cystitis in them too, so I'd imagine it cannot be good for a dog either.

I think some people need to keep hamsters instead! (Sorry, nowhere near as helpful as JG!)

My youngest sheltie bitch is crated at night (Midnight to 6.30am) because she climbs like a cat and gets into things she shouldn't be in - like the Belfast sink which she once got stuck in! She goes in at night quite happily but when she snoozes by day she does it in an armchair not in her bed in the open crate. She is completely free during the day. I'd agree with JG that the longest time of crating is the length of time the owner's bladder can cope with. Apart for the wee climbing bitch all of mine are free by day and night. I am a late convert to crates for puppies but beyond puppy stage I don't really think crating is necessary for the vast majority of dogs.

I have had the same sense of shock and reaction to the idea of such excesive confinement, and they really didn't get it.

Do prisoners get such long cell confinement? Don't think so. Why anyone would want to keep dogs locked up in a crate, however big, for such long periods beats me. What sort of life is that, if they really love their dogs, as I'm sure they say they do, how can they do that to them. Then they wonder why they have behavioural problems........

I don't really approve of cages at all. The closest mine have come is being confined to the kitchen with a pet gate or behind the tailgate guard in the car. I don't even think it's the toileting aspect of a crate that I dislike, it's that dogs need to be able to walk around, play, rollover etc etc

that why they dogs out in the states have big issus problem plus they dont get excierse.

It wouldn't be so bad if it were broken up a little, if the dog was let out at lunchtime for an hour or so, but, 8 hours is not nice for a dog.

My puppy is on crate rest at the moment and has been for 12 weeks, I'm amazed at how she has adjusted to life behind bars.............it's not what I want for her obviously, but we have no choice, other than this mishap, both of mine have been crate trained from puppies, spending time in the crate whilst I'm out for around 2 hours in the morning and another 2 hours later in the afternoon, then of course again when we've gone to bed, under normal circumstances, I would never go out to work all day and leave my dogs crated :( . Molly, the eldest, hasn't used a crate since she turned 1 years old, and hopefully, Izzy, once she is better, will follow suit. :)

i've just found out that my friends brother has got another dog-a border collie (this the family who rehomed a GSD because he was too much, then their 2 westies for the same reason, and that they were fed up of their using the house a toilet-of course this was the dogs problem, nothing to do with the fact they weren't trained, walked etc :rolleyes:). They've decided to use a crate this time round, and to my friends knowledge, it pretty much spends all day in it. Its only 9mths, so it playful and desperate to go and explore, but the running round etc gets on their nerves, so its crated. Friend has even seen it sat in its own business in it because they've literally left it all day. Friend had it and their kids for a weekend a while ago, and she only used the crate if the had to pop out for a bit-a bit being an hour or so-any longer, and it went with them. She said the dog was a delight and that she'd have it any day, but now its back at home, its back to living in a crate. So tempted to ring the RSPCA (Friend has asked me to), but i don't know if they'd do anything? Theres no water or food in the crate, so i don't know if that might sway things. I reported someone else last year, but don't have a clue what happened-even thought they asked me if i wanted to know the outcome (of course i said yes).

I too have been shocked at the attitude of some people (and I'm sorry but it does seem in the main to be Americans) and how long they leave their animals for.  One woman on an American breed forum was being congratulated for taking on a rescue dog and praised for her 'training skills' when she posted that the dog had quickly learnt to be left alone for 11 hours six days a week
When I pointed out that some might not think that was such a good idea, she posted "what do you want me to do then, not have a dog at all?".  Most people got quite upset when I said "yes". 

I'm afraid that people think they have the right to do or have anything they want.  The whole "Why shouldn't I have a dog if I want one?" attitude winds me up something wicked!

Debs

i know what you mean debs. There's a few people i work with that work their standard 8 hour day, but then work another 3 as overtime. And leave their dog at home, on its own........

i think things are different in the usa. over there thay tend to either crate dogs or else tie them up in the yard with a chain 24/7. i suppose they want the dogs for protection but they cant really think of them as pets when they chain them outside. i only agree with crates for puppies or destructive dogs that cant be left in the house otherwise and then only when the owners go out.

Those poor dogs don't have lives, they're just existing. :( Why can't people realise that dog ownership is a privilege, not a right? :rolleyes:

If only they did JG, if only. They want a dog because they love having it to come home to, and the love and companionship it gives, yet don't seem to give a thought to its needs for love and companionship when they leave it locked up for hours and hours on end while they are working, then again for hours of an evening if they have a busy social life, same at weekends if the dog dosen't go with them. Every dog has to learn to be left for some time during the day, there are times when it happens and nothing can be done about that. But to have one knowing you are going to leave it locked up on a daily basis for hours on end, and I mean 8 hrs plus traveling, well I can't understand that. Would be far better for these people to offer their time exercising at a local dog rescue, those dogs would welcome some human interaction that the hard pushed staff, with the best will in the world, can't always give due to sheer number of dogs in their care. Sponsor money would come in useful too, as well as donations of food.

I think some people need to keep hamsters instead! I can say no more than that!............. well I could but it would be a 3 page essay.:rolleyes:

I wouldn't crate my dog for longer than an hour (OK, I'm odd man out, I don't crate him at all! :-D) I can't imagine how uncomfortable it must be to not be able to move around. Even on transatlantic flights, which I loath beyond reason, you can get up. oh yes, one of those shameful yanks ;-) And you all haven't corrupted me, I wouldn't have done that even when I lived in the US so it's not all of us.

Anyone who wants to crate their dog all day should find a small closet, just big enough to stand and turn, then spend the day in it with no books, TV, games or other entertainment. And no toilet of course.

It becomes a prison not a crate

No you're not the odd one out Lori, none of my dogs has ever been crated either!
K

My Cindy loo was crated by her last owner and has some serious issues due to that I could never do that to a dog I am sure the crates can be wonderful in the right circumstances my last cav loved being in very small confined spaces and we would often find him hidding in the rabbits hutch eating rabbit food which did not please said rabbit but I think some people take it to far

Ive had the exact same experience on a US based forum, I too pointed out to a particular poster that as the dog was crated through the night aswell as the day, that it was infact in a cage for 19 hours out of 24 (and this was a PUPPY.) The response was that she thought she was in no way being cruel to the dog, it was in a climate controlled environment, with food and water (she then added that she wished that was how she spent her days) and then concluded that I must be a member of PETA to think that it was in any way wrong.

It seems in the US as long as you say you love your dog like a 'furbaby' then you can treat them how ever you like.

From the day we got her, her crate was to a) house train her b) stop her from doing herself any damage when we couldn't watch her and c) be replaced as soon as she was old enough have her own bed.

We stopped shutting the door months and months ago, and it's been replaced by her own big comfy bed. It's now stored upstairs in the spare room for when pup # 2 (whenever that will be- pesky husband :rolleyes:) arrives.

Someone, who I no longer speak to, has a huge brown lab in a crate all day - 9 hours at a time and at night . Without trying to build up the time, they let him out for about 9 hours one day and of course having a very flimsy unit in the dinning room, knocked off all thier CD's which he chewed to peices. So guess what? Back in the crate. :(

I have to crate mine when we go out which is never for long.I only do it for their own safety,3 rowdy SBT's could do damage to eachother if ever there was an argument,so I crate 2 and leave their mum free.They sleep wherever they want to any other time.They dont seem to mind going in it either.but I cant help but feel a tad mean :(

Fluff, I could tempt you with a real beauty ;-)

Ooo tell me more....no don't...... Oh go on then....

I'm starting to get to the same point as I was a few months before we got Roxy.....my husband's nick-name is Captain Cautious and despite wanting a dog almost as much as I did and after 7 years waiting to finally getting a home situation that would allow us to get a dog I informed him that he could either come and help me choose the new puppy or greet her as she walks through the front door...

He came and helped choose her lol!

Why do people feel the need to have a dog to crate it for 8 hours in the day then again at night, very cruel. They should buy a goldfish instead. Crates have their uses but do get easily abused by some.

Have dangled bait for you via PM Fluff. Bwha ha ha evil temptress that I am :-D

Re: crating dogs for long periods:  I too have been shocked by American attitudes - I think they see the dog as being like a car or a toy - ie when you've finished with it, you put it away in the garage/toy cupboard and forget about it... :rolleyes:
I find the best response is not to be critical, which just gets people's backs up and makes them dig their heels in (sounds uncomfortable!) but rather to ENCOURAGE the person to get in a dogwalker/trainer, and say they will have a much happier, better-behaved dog...

We crated our dalmation in a cage under our (very large) dining room table.  We used to keep him in there for his own safety whilst we were out and the maximum we used to ever do this for was 4 hours (average was about 2).  When he got to about 1 year old and had chilled out a bit we took down the stair gate and left the cage door open when we went out.  He sleeps either on his 'bed' in the lounge or if we're out for longer periods, he goes to his 'comfort zone' which is the crate!  I think they're a great training device but we never had in mind that he would be locked up in it for long.  For the record I'd say that 4/5 hours is the maximum.