Hey all I apoligise in advance for this post as it will probably ramble as I am quite shaky.

Pesto is noise phobic. So many noises now scare her.
Over the last week it has been quite traumatic for her. 3 Days ago there were 3 gun shots where I was walking her. She bolted and we lost her for 10 minutes. She came back eventually but very shaky and scared. Then the next night there was a huge thunder storm and then today just before her walk it was raining (which she associates with thunder). Any way was very reluctant to go get out of bed when her lead was put on (which is a daily battle usually ending with me picking her up and carrying her to the car).

I drove to the walking area. I got Ziggi out of the car and then held Pestos lead to call her out which she refused to do (again a daily battle usually ending with me picking her up). Any way today she wouldn't budge so I started to get ready to pick her up and she really growled and was so aggressive that she went to bite me.

Now she is one of the most lovely dogs but she just gets so terrified.
When I stop the car she gets up and looks out and is a happy little dog. I then open the car door and she changes. She goes all stiff and lies as flat as she can on the seat and digs her feet in so she won't move. She shakes.

When she tried to bite me she was shaking and looked terrified. So at this point I got back into the car and closed the door and she became the normal dogs she is but shaky but wanting to be close and was obviously very scared. She yawns and licked her lips at this point so was obviously as stress as I now was.

I tried to get her out and she did it again. So I ended up leaving her in the car and taking Ziggi for a walk.

Now here is my dilemma.  How do I deal with this? I don't want to leave her in the car if she ever does this as I am worried that this will become the default behaviour and I don't want to force her as I am scared I will get bitten.

I am so upset as this has happened at 1 time before with me and once with my mum and once with my dad  but none have been anywhere near as bad and I put it down to being a off day. I really don't want you to think she is an aggressive dog. We do however have some problems getting her off the sofa when it is time to put her to bed but that is just stubborn ness and it just is a grumbly growl which we deal with by giving her a treat in the kitchen just before bed.

What have I done wrong with my two dogs? I feel so awful and such a failure expecially as dog training is my favorite area. So upset.

Sorry
Anna

You do need professional help and I am not a professional but just to get her outside the door - is there anyway you can walk her a little way without having to take her in the car.  Just 5 minutes up the road to get her used to being outside again.

Train her like you would a scared puppy.  As I say I am not an expert but I wouldn't be carrying her to the car or having a battle to get her out of it.  She may put two and two together if you leave her behind when you take your other dog out to the car for a walk and as soon as she starts to show some enthusiasm you could try the street walking then graduate to the car.

Please get some help from a  vizsla expert.

I too would try to avoid the position where she becomes scared, try lead walking from home and avoid the car for the moment, once she will come for a lead walk easily then try just sitting in the car for a couple of moments and get out, reward. Then gradually build up to sitting in the car for ten minutes or so, get out and reward . Then turn on the engine, then a short trip round the block (On a clear day) and again reward as she gets out. Never reward until she gets out of the car. As for the noise paranoia have you tried a tape to play at home? sometimes these will help but you may just have to accept that walking on thundery days is a no-no for her. If you end up in a confrontational position again then I would just find a nice treat and let her lead go loose then try by tone of voice to encourage her away from whatever is frightening her.  Don't become embroiled in a battle of wills or strength as she will win, mentally!
It may well pay you to find a behaviorist who can help with the noise fear.

Well this can't go on can it?? :-(  She is absolutely terrified by your description and although completely wrong for her to bite I can feel her apprehension and understand her reasoning, but biting will become a normal reaction to fear, (which you can not have happen) if it is not sorted out quickly.

I agree with the others on a round the block quick walk on lead to try to start to settle her in, I know that your breed does need a lot of exercise, but if she is too petrified to go out what is the point, forcing her to go on what should be her daily wonderful run and play and in reality is a nightmare of fear for her it is a kind of torture, and will not get better by forcing her to do it. Is your garden big enough to play ball or chasing games at all to help release some energy for now?

Ask your vet for a referal for a good behaviourist she is going to need months of intensive work and lots of patience on your part to crack this, you don't want a fear aggressive dog on your hands, I would also advise a medical.

I can feel you are at your wits end and are trying your very best, but she needs more than you to crack this, get that help!!!

I would agree with the others.  As far as the sofa problem goes, personally I would not let her get in a position where I know there is likely to be confronation and she grumbles at you, so I would not let her on the furniture.

However, if you have to, then attach a light lead to her before she gets on then just take the end of the lead, turn away from her and walk away so she has to get off but you are not confronting her.

I'm so sorry for you and your dogs!

In addition to the above, may I suggest you all have some Bach Rescue Remedy, a few drops in water...

Also I have just done a search for you and found this:

http://www.pets4homeopathy.com/remedies.html#3b

which is a homeopathic remedy:

"Anxiety & Nervousness(TM) KB
2 oz. Spray Bottle / dropper available
Fear, anxiety, nervousness, restlessness, upset and tightness in stomach. For oversensitivity to light, sound, touch, confusion, excitement, overwork, worry - Quiets the nervous system.
P4H note: great for rescue dogs.

I haven't tried it, but it sounds like the right thing for your dog, and don't forget to take some yourself...

Thankyou all so far. I understand completely that she is terrified and I try and encourage her as much as possible. We have been to a behaviourist but after months of trying we got no where. She finds it hard to even go out of the front door which was why I always took her in the car but now this is a problem. The other problem is that I am at uni and so it is my parents that look after the dogs while i am away. But Iwill be taking one with me next year. They work as doctors and do not have the commitment or time to do huge intensive work.

If she doesn't willingly get up to even come the door - even with sausages do we leave her. Once she gets out of the car and onto the walk in an open area she really loves it unless there is a gunshot. This is where my dilema lies. She loves her walks if in a quiet area.

Please don't think that I just drag her or anything. I try my hardest to do the best for her but there are so many things she is scared of.

Sitting here crying cos i don't think i am doing right by her. I love her to bits.

P.s she is a mongrel not a vizsla. My other dog is a vizsla though and gets loads of excersise.
Thanks
Sorry

Sadly, no matter how hard you try, if the others in your household are not able to work with you it may be a problem you never solve.  I am so upset for you.  I know how hard it is to try and get your dogs other carers to do exactly what you do and being away so much it must be a nightmare for you.  Will she go into the garden at all with or without encouragement?  What I am trying to say is are your parents able to let her out for toileting without any trauma.  If this is the case I would be suggesting they do just that while you are away and not try to get her out of the front door at all.  She has got a lot of issues in her worried little head at the moment and I would guess not having you around 24/7 is adding to them. 

My little TT has been reluctant to go into the front garden for nearly three weeks because we inadvertently left her out one night (for 2 hours) when we were doing other things.  She has been treated with the utmost kindness and I was heartbroken that all of a sudden she didn't trust me to be her protector but she had made her mind up she would not risk getting left behind again do would not go into the garden.  When we had to we carried her to the car and back in again.  The real breakthrough came when we gave up trying to get her to go into the garden and she forgot, temporarily, about her scare and ran out to play with the puppies for a few minutes.  We have now graduated to free running from house to garden, in and out like a cork, but she is getting there.

I hope you find a solution soon.

Thankyou for that echo. It is very hard when there is loads that I want to do with her but it is just wasted because I am then away for 6 weeks. It is only 6 weeks until the easter holidays and then another 8 weeks after that until she willl be with me for the rest of the time. I will suggest that we don't take her walks and just let her into the garden which she loves. The funny thing is that although I do nearly everything for her she is better at walking with my mum and doesn't make nearly as much fuss. Though my mum is in general a much calmer person than me so maybe she sees my mum as having everything under control. Having said that though she always comes to me if she is scared by a noise.

We were prescribed a while ago by the behaviourist some drugs to give her as she hadn't seen such a noise phobic dog in a long time and they were only to be used as a last resort to give her enough confidence to concentrate on us. The problem is that she gets into such a state she has only one of two things on her mind. To run away or to get back to the house and no matter how many treats or how good treats they are nothing will encourage her.

I think I will set some rules up about walks. No picking her up to get her anywhere - very few days she will come. No walking if it is raining. No walking if it has thundered the night before. No walking on a sunday where some people shoot. And just do training and ball throwing in the garden. Hope that it works enough until the summer holidays.

Any other thoughts would be much appreciated.
Thanks
Anna

Hi Anna,

She really is terrified isn't she :(

It is good you've seen a behaviourist about her before, and I understand the drugs were to be used as a window of opportunity. Were you given any programme to follow with this, ie desensitizing and counter conditioning? As this is usually what works best, and in extreme cases (ie Pesto's) drugs give that tiny bit of help for what is meant to be a short time while the programme is worked on :)

I'd advise to ensure one thing, which I advise to owners of dogs who are aggressive with fear and that is to firstly listen to your dog (so take notice of what they tell you) and seconldly to build up a history of trust (so don't force, show them every day you can be trusted in all things. This may mean taking control - for instance the owner answers the door, taking that responsibility away from the dog who is scared of strangers for example, or just acknowledging what they are "saying" to you).

Definitely avoid any shooting areas - it may be that if you get her more relaxed and going out, just one loud shot near her will set her right back again.
With this kind of problem, any similar noise may also set them back so it is imperative that you are able to work slowly on the problem (very slowly) rather than avoid it forever, if you see what I mean.

I'd also suggest getting back in touch with the behaviourist and just checking in with them and asking for support/help further :)

Hope that helps a bit, it's just a few thoughts :)

Lindsay
xx

Thanks.
I will start the drugs a few days before I come home for the summer holidays to give me something to work with. We are meant to use them for about 6 weeks when we do intensive training.
There is very few shooting areas near me and if i know there is we avoid them. I say a gunshot set her off but it could have been any loud noise that sounds similar to a gun shot.

I know how to desensitise and counter condition with her it is just time and my parents are unable to do it. I don't feel I need to see the behaviourist again it is just time. The behvaviourist is on maternity  leave at the moment which isn't helpful but hey.

I do listen to her and do listen but I am just worried that she will be so bored if she never gets a walk.
We will only walk her if she is willing (with encouragement) to come to the car and out of it.

Thanks

Hi

I do hope this situation is resolved for you soon and do empathise with your problem. I would agree with all the advice given and just putting her on her lead for a short walk will help. You can buy a cd that may help called 'sounds familiar' it has all kinds of noises such as washing machines, fireworks, gunshot, buses, lorries, areoplanes etc on it. I would be tempted to buy one and play it quietly in the house to try to desensitise her. I would offer reassurance to her in a calm manner. Try playing it quietly at first. You could also try a remedy called rock rose available from Galen homeopathic (Google it), a couple of drops on the tongue will help your girl I am sure.

If she is reluctant to go to the car, I would try to make this a positive experience for her. Try feeding her her meal in the car without starting the engine for a week. Build this up gradually to the extent that you can run the engine but don't go anywhere.

I would also be tempted to see a good behaviourist about this. As with the settee, I would not allow her on the settee as this seems to cause confrontion with her. Give her a command to get off and carry this out every time she attempts to get on.

I do hope you are able to sort this problem out with your girl and have a happy little girl again.

Hi Anna
i read your post with so much interest...and familiarity! we have a Vizsla too.  Tallulah is nearly 4, and we have the same things happen, she is terrified of noise, but not the the extent of agression, but we do have the issue with sofas.  we have taught her commands to get on the sofa and off the sofa, but hasnt really helped for the agression/fear.  it is horriible as I do believe that she is terrified, - all her body language just shows that she is scared, one thing that we have found that is successful, is to try and diffuse the situation, by putting her lead on and walking her off the sofa - which usually works, as we didnt want to make a bigger issue out of it than it is at the moment.  other times we rub sit next to her and rub her ears - she then relaxes and usually follows the command.  she isnt vicious in any way, and if anything is wary of other dogs and a bit of a timid dog (which I think is the norm for female vizslas)  my email address is kmcloughlinis@hotmail.com if you want to email me and we can compare stories! it sounds like we are in the smae boat!
(i have so many probs logging infor some wierd reason)

>if anything is wary of other dogs and a bit of a timid dog (which I think is the norm for female vizslas)

The breed standard for the Hungarian Vizsla says:
Temperament: Lively, gentle-mannered and demonstratively affectionate, fearless and with well developed protective instinct.

It seems that temperament is not all it should be if so many seem to be timid. :( I hope neither of these bitches will be bred from.

The original OP's dog that the thread started about is a mongrel. :)

Yes, but someone's breeding all these timid vizslas that TallyMc refers to.

The dog that is noise phobic is a female mongrel (spayed). And the vizsla is also female and spayed. I wouldn't dream of breeding from her.

The temperament of vizslas can be affected hugely by the smallest of things as they are very sensitive. We believe that my vizslas dog problems stem from when my mongrel acts like a normal terrier and my vizsla doesn't understand her play. We have had much success with training my vizsla out of her dog problems and have been much better recently. The mongrel is not terriefied of the car. She growls because she is scared of comeing out of the house or out of the car for a walk. I have taken a hugely relaxed way with her and my parents will continue now I am back at uni. We put her lead on and let her wander around with it on and then just take the lead and lead her to the car which works. If she looks upset at all about getting out of the car I leave the door open and play with my vizsla and do training with the vizsla for about 10mins where pesto can see us. If she still doesn't come out or look interested she stays in the car while i walk the vizsla. As long as it is not hot that is. If not walked she gets extra training and play at home.

The desensitisatiuon cd's don't work as she takes no notice of them even at full volume and just acts normal even if I am going deaf. She will not walk from the house as I live in london and it is not the most noise friendly place!!!.

Please don't think my dogs are terrors as they are not and I just happen to post when I have problems. They are always treated with love and kindness in training and every one says they are very well trained. Each has their own quirks. The mongrel is not aggressive out of choice she is just terriefied of noises.
Thanks

Anna,

The majority of cd'ers do not think your dogs are terrors  and I understand that most people post when they have problems to ask for advice but sometimes certain posts go off on a different tangent. Just glean the information that you feel appropriate and leave the rest arguing amongst themselves.

I hope you are soon able to sort out the problems with the mongrel though which ever route you try.

Hi
A lot of vizsla books do say that female vizslas do tend to be on the timid side (and often call them the "velcro" vizslas, due to them liking to be so close with their owners)  if anyone has any tips on how to help her being so timid, it would be greatfully recieved.  Tallulah has been well socialised (has done up to her silver Good citizen award and was a regular at agility - until the poo eating just got too much  ) We have tried playing tuggy games with her and letting her win, but she never really grapsed them that well (we didnt play those types of games with her as a pup.  on the whole she is a really happy dog, she just gets very easily spooked on things .  would just be nice if she was a bit more confident/bold on an everyday level, which I think would stop her getting spooked so easily  when we decided on a vizsla we were very careful when choosing a breeder.  She is from a very reputable breeder, who I have 100% confidence in, I do think it is a female breed characteristic, the males I ahve seen are much bolshier!!! :-)