I have been showing for only 5 yrs but never come before 3rd place in a champ show (Had a few 1sts in opens & 1 BOB)

Not bad as there is allways a large entry in my breed.

Do not want to name the judge but was told by him if my dog was black & not blue she would of been made up by now!!!  This makes me so mad as blue is an accepted color

I dont think I will get a champ with her & her daughter is to mad to show so I think I will just stick to the opens now.

I started showing in 1978 going to the odd open show, but it wasn't until 1986 that I ventured onto the Champ show circuit.  Made up my first Champion in 1988.  Started judging (at open show level) in 1991.  Gave tickets for the first time in 1999.

Debs

I wouldn't put much stock in that Tenno, people say all sorts of nonsense and make all sorts of excuses for not putting your dog up. I'm a firm believer in if your dog is good enough (and well presented) it will win. If you're not winning as much as you would like then watch the dogs in front of you and try to improve with your next dog.

I won my first CC 3 years after I started showing and made that dog up the year after. People said he didn't do as well as he should have when a youngster because he was self red and not as flashy as say a red and white. But looking back now at pics of him I see it was simply a case of he was a thin, gangly youngster with no coat. At the time I thought he was wonderful and couldn't understand these other dogs being put in front of him - facy judging I thought! It's difficult to put aside those rose tinted specs that we all look at our own dogs with.

I have to say though in a numerically large breed like yours as long as you're getting pulled out in classes regularly (and enjoying it) I would stick with it :)

But looking back now at pics of him I see it was simply a case of he was a thin, gangly youngster with no coat. At the time I thought he was wonderful and couldn't understand these other dogs being put in front of him - facy judging I thought! It's difficult to put aside those rose tinted specs that we all look at our own dogs with.

Chaumsong I think you hit the nail on the head there!  I hear so many people blaming facey judging when, in reality, the dogs in front of them were so much better.  I started showing at local shows with my Dad's Cavalier and couldn't understand why our wonderful dog never won a class.  Looking back now he was wry mouthed, apple skulled, cow hocked and oversized! :d

Debs

Been showing for 35 years off and on and never made up a champion. :(

Had stud book numbers, Crufts qualifiers and Crufts placings, Best in Shows at Open level, Stakes wins at Champ level, and lots of class wins at Champ level too, but never a CC. I'm completely resigned to the fact that I never ever will. :)

Dawn R.

I'm completely resigned to the fact that I never ever will.

Noooooo Dawn, never say never ;) :d

Debs

She did qualify for crufts when a puppy so I know she is not that bad.

I dont mind, as long as I somtimes get placed I will carry on showing.

The judge that said this was the one who gave her 1st in her class at a open show & was not being horrid just stating a fact!

Never had a CC either, but never mind as long as I get placed 3rd in a class of 17ish dogs I am quite happy

Her daughter, who we kept to show in my opinion would do quite well but she  is very hyper at 18m & jumps all over the judge (yes she does go ring craft & i try to train at home) so I only take her to a few open shows !!!

I would just be happy to qualify for crufts again so she is allways entered in limit now

If she's getting placed in Limit (which can be a tough class) then you're doing fine, it only takes 3 judges to move her up a few places :)

The judge that said this was the one who gave her 1st in her class at a open show & was not being horrid just stating a fact!

I don't think you can say it was a FACT Tenno, the most you can say was it was a well informed opinion :)

In borzois I could name around 100 red & white champions, a few self reds, 4 self blacks and only 1 black and white. This is from memory without referring to the books of champions. I don't think you're less likely to make up a really good black & white - just that most dogs shown are red and white. Therefore it's a simple case of arithmetic that there are more red & white champions ;)

I'm a good few years off you too, but snap...
Showing 18 years - owned my own dogs for 16 years.

Have yet to get a stud book number (but knew that oldest bitch I'm showing was good enough
to get one - we missed out by one place at Southern Counties 2 years ago :rolleyes: )

Have had Crufts qualifiers, Crufts placings, Pet Plan Junior stakes daily winner (with the above bitch).
Many BOB's at Open shows, Group placings etc.

But I've not climbed many rungs of the showing ladder....
I don't ship my dogs on once they are too old for the show ring, they stay with me.
I'm limited to the number of dogs that I can have living with me in my home (4 Boxers max, I've got 3 currently).
So I have to be patient and maybe one day it will be my turn to get a CC Winner or even a Champion... (I always live in hope) :D
Instead I look at my showing as my hobby -  a relaxation day amongst good friends that I have made
over the years that I've shown. Sure I have bad days, some days that I feel that I've been hard done by,
But another judge, another day and it can all be different.

Can I join your club please Dawn?? :)
Kirstine

I don't ship my dogs on once they are too old for the show ring, they stay with me.
I'm limited to the number of dogs that I can have living with me in my home

Yup Kirstine, same as me and as it should be IMO :)  I've got my oldest bitch lounging on the sofa as I type - she'll be 10 in April :d

Debs

Luck of the draw - I had never had even a pet dog before I bought Henry, and he won a CC and BOB at 14 months so I had been showing 8 months . Loads of people say he should have been made up, but he has won TONS of great stuff for me which in a breed like Cavaliers is fantastic, and he's a wonderful pet the rest of the time, so I'm not complaining! CC and BOB, 2 Firsts at Crufts, a BIS at a club show, and a ShCM is awesome for a first dog! Second Cav I bought has won 2 BOB at open shows and been placed at a Champ show, so you can do it as a newcomer if the dog is worthy. :-)

My first show dog - a bitch I bred myself was made up.  One of my proudest moments was when the judge (one of our premier breeders) asked me "who had bred that lovely puppy", when she gave her best puppy at a champ show.  The icing on the cake was to win best of breed at Crufts with her when she was nearly nine - we did the double with her nephew winning best dog.  At one point I had 3 champions and a dual CC wniner at home.  I don't ship my dogs out either.  At the moment they are spread around the furniture with us as usual.

Yes an amount of luck does come into it.

The mother of the bitch that almost got her stud book number
she was in the final 4 for a CC, was strongly considered for both
CC and RCC and lost out to a Ch bitch and the 2nd behind her...
This was under a Spanish judge.

She's now growing old & grey disgracefully - she's 9yo this May. (Boxer's average age is 10yo).
I had ton's of fun with her and her daughter and now the cousin.
It doesn't matter to me if they've won loads or not (It's a bonus if they can do well), what matters most to me is that they
are a pleasure to live with. Afterall what's the point in having a Ch if they are awful to live with??
Far rather have a dog without a title and a pleasure to live with than one with a title and hell to live with.

A friend has won a CC with her Border Collie and she's now got a Whippet sat on 2 RCC's.
These are her first and seond show dogs..beginners luck? having a good eye for a puppy?
Who knows, but good luck to her and her dogs :)

I think to nail it on the head you have to pick holes in your own dogs, im always doing this like i wish he had a deeper chest when people say its passable and to tell me to stop being so critical, but its the key to becoming a successful breeder and doing well in the ring, i accept my placings and if i dont agree well its just that judges opinion, you have to remember that the top breeders will consistantly only put there best in the ring! that is why they win most of the time.
Fiona

>and she's now got a Whippet sat on 2 RCC's

Excellent breeder as far as Sid's concerned, LOL. :D :D :D She happens to own a Rough Collie that I bred, who has two CCs and 4 RCCs, plus an import boy that we have in partnership on 2 RCCs. OK, so I might not own the first boy, but I bred him, and will be pleased as punch if he gets that third.

As for myself - showing on and off for 20 years almost, but they are pets first and foremost and are shown if they're up to it. Nothing of any great note to report.

Well done on the Pet Plan Junior Stakes, Kirstine, that's no mean feat in itself.

M.

Excellent breeder as far as Sid's concerned, LOL.    She happens to own a Rough Collie that I bred,

That's the breeder of Sid :D :D....sure The Border wouldn't be too impressed being called a Rough :D :D :D
Sorry couldn't resist that one :)

Thanks M, I was well chuffed with the PP JS daily win as my baby was still a puppy (11 months) up against all the older juniors.
Think that day there were 40 plus in the class.  :)

I think breeding a lad that's sat on 2 CC's is a great achievement, if he gets his third do you get a breeders diploma from the KC
for breeding a Champ?

Kirstine

No, I do mean a Rough Collie - owned by Wendy, not Sarah.

Yes I do get a blasted BD ... IF he ever gets it ... IF he ever holds his coat long enough to get under the right judges for him ... IF IF IF!!!

M.

Breeding a title holder for someone else is better than making up one you own.  I am lucky to ahve bred one UK champion for someone else as well as a dual CC winner and several RCC winners.

You have a point there.  I also feel that there's more pressure in showing a dog that someone else had bred.  I was determined to make Bani up for my friends who bred him - and I did!

Definately luck of the draw!!
When I bought my first pedigree pup the breeder encouraged me to show her for fun. 

After showing in a few opens for a year she qualified for Crufts at her (and ours) first ChShow!  At the second ChShow she won the CC and BOB   a year later she got 2 CCs and a BOB to make her up.  In all she went to 12 Ch Shows and was only unplaced in 1!
I now show her daughter who, at her first ChShow went RCC from Junior (1year+1day) In the last year (6 ChShows) she's had RCC and RBIS at a Breed ChShow and placed well at others, also RBIS and group placings at Op Shows.   If anything, she's better than her mum despite not having won a CC yet, but there are some superb bitches around at the moment and only one can win the top honours at each show, but my girl's often there in the line up ;)

It's been a very steep learning curve, I've had to learn to groom, trim, handle and present my dogs to the standard expected at ChShows and the help and education I've recieved from other exhibitors has been amazing.  I'm always conscious that without the breeding behind my Ch bitch it could have been very different.

I was (still am really ;) ) a total newcomer, so with the right dog and a lot of learning it can be done :D :D :D

So true Fiona :)  being really critical of your own dogs and willing to see where others' dogs are better is definately the key :)  and if you can't accept the judges opinion with good grace there's no point in going ;)  It's an opinion, one of many which hopefully will be informative :)  But whatever others think, the best dogs come home with us :D

''I don't ship my dogs on once they are too old for the show ring, they stay with me.'' quote from Boxacrazy

Same here, I would never move one on just to try and find a better one. Although I love a day at a show, my dogs are beloved pets first, and showdogs second. I'm currently in the position of having several oldies, and a few that are not good enough to show for one reason or another. So apart from a few Veteran classes here and there, I'm probably out of the ring for about the next 5 years, but I'd rather that, than part with any of my dogs.

Dawn R.

I agree Dawn, I would never rehome any dog just because it was too old. It does mean I might have to do without shows or be resigned to coming last, as my OH isn't keen on filling our house with dogs (we only have 3 at present :-D ) but I couldn't part with any of them.

i started showing about 15yrs ago, i did well with what i had, i had alot of BOB'S & group placings.
i then had to give up through my partners death. i had to give up work 4yrs ago and thought about getting back into showing, so i was lucky to have a breeder on my door step who happened to have a nice pup, so 6mnts later of we went to our first show, we won every puppy class during his puppy career & won 2 groups he has never been lower than 3rd at champ shows, he got the RCC at 2yrs & at 3 got the CC, hope im lucky enough to make him up. and ive done this on a small budget not going to every champ show.

I don't ship my dogs on once they are too old for the show ring, they stay with me.
I'm limited to the number of dogs that I can have living with me in my home (4 Boxers max, I've got 3 currently).
So I have to be patient and maybe one day it will be my turn to get a CC Winner or even a Champion... (I always live in hope)

Pretty much the same here, my max is 4 under 12, so have had five at times, with my new pup I am up to four again, with the oldest 10 this year.

I made up my first champion in 2001, and first owned the breed in 1992, but didn't start whowing until 1994 when my girl was nearly two.  My champion was my fourth bitch and third homebred generation from my first born in 1992.

I first showed a dog of another breed in 1989.

I,ve never won a CC with any of my dogs never really likely too,
I enjoyed showing my first bitch only did a couple of champ shows with her but she was placed at both of them and we had decent entries as well in those days she was born in 1991.
I bred only one litter from her kept a bitch who grew and grew so really wasn,t shown much such a shame as she has a wonderful temperament and is a lovely moving dog good hips ,elbows etc but as I said a big big girl still had a bit of fun with her at the open shows.
The brother to her went to the people I bought their mother from and has been shown with great sucess numerous BOB at open shows lots of first prices at champ shows ,he has a RCC and was the first in our breed to qualify for a Junior Warrant under the new system ,He,s ten now and is still shown locally in veteran classes and regularly wins or gets placed he,s a real good laster and enjoys his days out.
I,m as proud of him as if he still lived with me so you can get lucky with your own breeding or first show dog.
So here I am 15 years on with a ten year old giant and a four year old hooligan who will probably not be bred from now even though she has been health tested as have all of my dogs, as I never want to be overcrowded I would desperately love another puppie but will probably wait a year or two yet. Thats the plan anyway but who knows how things will ever turn out.

I can't imagine how anyone can move a dog on just because it's too old for breeding/showing or isn't doing well   both mine are pets for 365 days a year and showdogs for about 12 days a year although the one is 'retired' at the mo :) :)  and that's how it'll always be :)

Dill I know how you feel and I too had to do some serious thinking before I got the gist of why people do this.  Those people that are, shall we call them 'large scale exhibitors' :) have most of their dogs in kennels because they have too many to fit in a house.  Once a dogs'  showing/breeding days are over, they feel the dog would be better off living the rest of it's days out in a home envirnoment where it can get more individual attention and be loved to death :d  Better that than having oldies sat in a kennel doing nothing for the rest of their days.

I know a large number of exhibitors who do this and none of them skimp on their dogs' needs, but they don't have the time to give them the life they deserve, so they find them a loving home instead.  I think all the people I know personally have a few oldies that they just can't part with and they live in the house :d

It's not for me, but I can see why some people do it.  Horses for courses isn't it really but a little too business-like for me ;) 

Debs

I suppose then it makes sense but personally I couldn't keep my dogs kennelled, they are part of the family ;)  Way too business-like for me too :(  But then for me showing is a hobby which we both enjoy, not a business ;)  doesn't mean I don't take it seriously, esp planning the breeding and health - that's deadly serious!

Most often these kenneled dogs are rotated in the house, just too many to all be in at once.  After al a full time kennel dog would lack many of the social graces needed to be a show dog, travelling in the car staying in hotel rooms etc.

I know two deerhounds who live in a 'retirement home'. The lady who has them has had three previous retired deerhounds from the same breeder. She adores them and they all have / have had the life of Reilly. But they still get very excited when the breeder comes to visit and obviously still miss her. I couldn't do it myself, even to a home that is as good as that one. I adore my oldies with all of their little foibles and oddities. If a pup stays here past 12 weeks it stays until it is PTS sleep here on the sofa.

We were EXTREMELY fortunate to have started showing for the first time in 2003 and our boy was made a champion in 2006 :D :D :D

I'm finding this a very interesting discussion as a non-shower (and never will be one :D )

> Those people that are, shall we call them 'large scale exhibitors'  have most of their dogs in kennels because they have too many to fit in a house.  Once a dogs'  showing/breeding days are over, they feel the dog would be better off living the rest of it's days out in a home envirnoment where it can get more individual attention and be loved to death

Surely these peoples' hobby is showing rather than dogs - they would get the same buzz from showing anything ??

I'm glad to see that everyone here is a dog lover first, exhibitor second :D

Daisy

Surely these peoples' hobby is showing rather than dogs - they would get the same buzz from showing anything ??

Daisy you're probably right.  There's no doubt that these people love their dogs and give them all the care they need.  After all, you can't show a neglected dog who's lacking personal attention - it just wouldn't win enough!  It wouldn't have the rapport needed to win top honours.  It's the same with people who hand their dogs over to professional handlers, the handlers have the dogs living with them if they're going to be seriously campaigned.

All this said, I know several ex show and breeding dogs who've been 'pet homed'.  Without exception they're well adjusted happy dogs :)

Debs

Yep I know people the same, and also those who have a lifelong involvement in a breed but know that in 15 years they will not be up to keeping any/many dogs.

They breed the odd litter show the pup they keep ad retire it when relatively young to a good home after it has carried on the line.

The dogs have only ever had the one change of home, thy just didn't go to new homes at 8 weeks but at five years.  Sometimes these are champions.

Breeds would be very poor if people gave up breeding and showing at 60 or 65 because the dogs were likely to outlive them.

Haven't been able to consider doing it myself though, good bad or indifferent once I have kept them past the puppy stage they are here to stay for good.

Been showing a Cavalier for just over a year and he got his stud book in September last year, and has been placed at every champ show since (In Limit) that's good enough for me.  Many BOB's and Group placings, few points left for his ShCM.
Got at least another year left with him and intend to enjoy it no matter what

Started showing half heartedly from about 1988, bred my first litter in 1994 and from that came my first Sh.Ch.bitch (Owned by someone else though) and another RCC winning bitch.   My second litter in 2000 gave me another Sh.Ch. bitch (Owned by me - this time!  :D) and a RCC winning dog.  My third litter in 2002 has given me my dog who has 2 RCC's and his litter sister who has 3 RCC's.   When litter No.4 will be is anyone's guess.

My first LM was born at the end of 1987 and died in 1998, my next was born in 1991 and died in 2005 and the other 3 (12, 6 & 4) are all still alive and kicking and are all house dogs, well sofa dogs!  

Passing on dogs to pet homes is nothing compared to what goes on with some pedigree cat breeders!   Their stock is passed on left, right & centre.    In his short life, my Jack had gone from his breeders house to one buyer, then another buyer and then me - I got him at 13 months old!

Passing on dogs to pet homes is nothing compared to what goes on with some pedigree cat breeders!   Their stock is passed on left, right & centre.    In his short life, my Jack had gone from his breeders house to one buyer, then another buyer and then me - I got him at 13 months old!

Pet peeve of mine !! It's so common and yes everyone says it's for the cats' own sake. Hmmm I'm not sure. I currently have one girl I'd love a home for but that is because she cannot be kept with dogs and it isn't fair for her to be in a cattery for life.  My first Exotic is still here aged almost 14, a Persian from my second ever litter died last year aged 15½ -you get the picture. :D I have a friend who starts planning when to sell a cat on the moment she buys it!! It's like "2 litters and that's it". I just can't do it!

It's starting to annoy me when people tell me I MUST start getting rid of some of my "useless" adults or I will have too many cats. Too many for who? Them? or us? Isn't is US (hubby and me) who groom them, clean their litter trays, feed them, pay for everything?? Don't WE know what we can cope with? :rolleyes:

Sure, at times I think there are good reasons for parting with an adult -such as if you are deliberately helping another breeder out by letting them have an adult that would be very valuable to them, adding new blood etc -I got two adults myself like that in November and I am very grateful to the previous owner. She did it to help me. But I still don't think I could do it with any of mine. My husband is even worse! :)

My friend who never keeps any of hers and plans to rehome as soon as she gets them -she often has problems selling pet kittens. (i.e. those not good enough for showing or breeding.) Me, I always have people wanting pets, and the one thing virtually everyone that visits always say is how nice it is to see someone who clearly loves all their cats whether they can be shown or not. All they need to do is look at the oldies, my one eyed Persian, the two rescued mogs -and yes, the rescued 10 year old female Maine Coon who was unwanted when she got too old to breed any more!

Well, we've been showing about 18 months now and we're just starting to get some good results!  Nowhere near a champion yet (but some people have said we could get it!!!).

As for facy judging, i have seen it happen with one of our breeds.  Judges will put up the HANDLER who is judging at the next champ show, or crufts, or if its their friend... Its awful and frustrating to people who get overlooked but it does happen.  It took us a year to even get a place at Champ shows with our labs.  Admittedly, they did stand out in the line up and look a bit odd, because they were slim!  Alot of judges like very fat lab puppies, but we were more interested in what they would be like in the future so decided against piling the weight on them at 6 months :rolleyes:  But now, our bitch who we still show is looking great, she's got a few BOBs at open shows, she gets placed well almost every time out now and has got some good Champ show placings so we're happy with that!

We've done much better in Pugs, as we seem to have been judged almost every time on the dog ONLY!  We haven't always won (or got placed!) but you can generally tell that the best dog has won.  We've been told to try to get our new babies JW if possible so we're concentrating on her mostly now!  She's 7 1/2 months and has 5 points, 20 to go!!!

Started showing in 1959 but only went to local open shows & then went into obedience(I qualified my BC bitch for ticket Obedience in 1972) until 1974 when we bought my first Beardie. She was made up in 1979 winning three CC's each with BOB & she beat the two top dogs for BOB Unlike showing now there were usually entries of well over 200 for beardies & 20 + in a class was the norm

Having acheived my goal I scaled down showing & now do it just for fun, any places are a bonus