Excuse bad grammar etc but I'm a tad stressed.

My  bitch started to whelp this morning, it's my first litter.  She had a deformed pup at home and it scared her so she stopped pushing no 2 out.  Took her to the vets and she had oxytocin to speed up things, and then produced a lovely healthy boy.  The first puppy was put to sleep.  Then the vet left her unattended and she started having a girl that was breech, but the vet didn't notice until she had already eaten the placenta and half the girls body was out - I don't know the timescale but surely they should have been watching her out the back and we were in the waiting room?  When she noticed, the vet then had to pull the female pup out, she wasn't breathing and the vet couldn't find a heartbeat, tried dopram and adrenalin and rubbing, but nothing - I am so cross the vet had her out back and didn't watch her.  When she was trying to revive her and swinging to clear airways, she dropped her on the floor!!!! Then the vet gave my 2 more shots of oxytocin to my girl and said she had another pup to deliver, my girl looked like she had had enough and was just trying to nurse her live pup.  Having had one dead pup I agreed to the C section the vet said would be necessary it was just a matter of when.  We went for the ceasr early to save the remaining pup that the vert could feel in her uterus, so we were asked to take the pup away and keep it warm which we did. A little while later the vet rang me up and said that she had done the ceasarian but there was no pup in her uterus, it was just that her uterus had felt tense and she'd been mistaken!!! I am so mad and so tired, and so upset.  I feel it may have been the vets fault the little girl didn't make it, but to then put my bitch thru an uneccesary operation and seperation from her pup?!

Oh how awful for you.

Surely the Vet would have scanned or x-rayed to make sure there was still a puppy.

She said she was so certain there was that she didn't feel she needed to, that the uterus was swollen, she is very experienced, hasn't made a mistake like this before.

I am now worried about the remaining puppy (see other thread)

Dreadful for you and for your bitch.:(

I had an emergency CS in a bitch that I whelped after her owner sadly died in an accident. But I have nothing but praise for Neil my vet. He was out at the house 5 minutes after I phoned to say that we were in trouble. Then he drove me and the bitch into the surgery and did the CS straight away, no messing about. I was there all the time and was able to help the vet nurse wih drying the puppies, giving them Dopram etc. Result - 8 live puppies. And Neil even gave me and the puppies a lift home afterwards! :)

The dam rejected them and they had to be hand reared. We lost two to FPS but the others were saved by Anna-Marie Brannon's serum transfusion method,done by Johnn another wonderful vet.

why didnt the  vet do an x-ray ?
I had a similar thing after delivery of 6 pups one breech . Mum trying to push but nothing happening we had one placenta missing so waited rec time then contacted the vet .
Vet  ( emergency ) also wanted to do a c-section I refused and asked for oxytocin they offered to do a x-ray which we agreed too this showed no more puppies but a possible placenta. She  was given oxytocin and delivered the placenta before we arrived home .
What I dont understand is why not offer the x-ray first??
Why do vets insist on c -section before a x -ray doesnt make sense .
This was my first litter also but I had the experience of a mentor who told me what to insist on, email,phone and very helpful advice from people on this site havent forgotten you Carrington and Ridgielover :) . After reading this terrible outcome I am so glad my litter was sucessfully delivered without any problems.

I would also stay with them , I slept in the same room next to the whelping box the whole time until the puppies went to thier new homes .

Good luck with your new puppy . I hope  Mum recovers quickly from her op. I can understand your anger / upset with this vet but for now let it go and consentrate on your new puppy.

Roni

Hi Roni

Thanks for your fedback.  If I had known this practice was so ill equipped I would have gone to the animal hospital in E London (part of the same vet group). 

The reason the breech pup died was because she was trying to x ray my girl, and left her unattended whilst her and a nurse were setting up, but then as she'd given the oxytocin the pups came quickly.  I am upset that the girl I believe died because they left her unattended when I could have attended her (they didn't ask me to leave the room again after that).

I blame myself for not being more assertive when they told me to wait out in the waiting room.  Never again they'll have to hold me back.  I had a few concerns over the pup & it's feeding, but this seems to have improved (I'm sure nutridrops helped)  pup is now latched on suckling lovely.  I just feel so over emotional..............must get some sleep soon.

Thanks for everyone's support.

From feeling the vet should have known it was just her uterus being still swollen- if the vet would have waited a bit and felt her again the vet should have noticed the uterus was contracting- cause if not then more then likely a pup still inside.... don't understand why so many oxytosin shots...

When my bitch had puppies 5 in total when she was done it felt like still a pup inside her after a half hour from last pup being born- I took her to the vet in total probably hour from last pup now- vet felt but was sure no puppy but told me to keep an eye on her and if it didn't go down within an hr we will go from there, she didn't want to upset her anymore and get her back to puppies - she also stayed on call for me- I think with all the pressing on her tummy by the time we got home she delivered a sac with plecenta so obviously a pup that never formed we are assuming.  I know you can wait up to 3hrs between pups as long as the bitch is not stressed or really pushing hard...

Iam so sorry to hear about the trauma ur poor girl went through- I would be extremely peed with them- especially with the dropping of the puppy and unnecessary section- I do hope you were not charged for their stupidity since you and your bitch did suffer enough...

Enjoy your puppy and hope the new family are doing ok :)

Thanks dollface.

I am going to try and compose a letter to the vet to address these issues, and yes they did bill me at the end of it. 

I am finding it so hard to get over my part in the error of the vet.  I feel if I had been more assertive it could have been avoided.  I was reluctant to question the vet as it was my first litter, but if I had said what I felt was right instead of handing all trust over to the vet, then my bitch puppy would have lived and I am beating myself up over and over about this - to the point where I wish there was an off switch in mybrain as I am driving myself crazy.

My girl is due to be seen tomorrow, I will not be keeping my appointment at that vets, but will be making a new one at a different practice.  I know I have to take her to be checked post op, but I don't feel I want to disturb her now she has settled with her pup as she's already been through so much.  She wouldn't even need to be sen if it wasn't for the unecessary section.  I had her in the sitting room for quarter of an hour today with one of the other dogs, and she seemed brighter, which has helped my mood, as she looked so depressed before.

It's such a relief that her little boy now seems to be thriving, I just wish I could pull myself together over the other pup as she was healthy and if assisted at birth would have survived. 

The malformed pup she had was PTS and although it's sad, this has not really affected me as it's a natural thing that has occured.  It's the fact I feel the other death could have been avoided that is driving me nuts!  More annoyed at myself for not stepping in - this is a hard lesson tohave learned.

Hi Chi-Chi,

What a terribly sad time you have had, I have caught up with your posts on your singleton pup who sounds now to be doing very well, so that is great news, lets hope the pup will now go from strength to strength.

I am distressed to read of what has happened to your bitch and other pups, this is your first litter and we all make mistakes and have tragedies and we learn from them, I have been guilty myself with my first litter in leaving my bitch just after whelping a pup to make a coffee and finding she had had another so quickly which my bitch did not have time to release from the sack, luckily and very luckily I saved him. But I learnt from that. 

Your vet was not a first timer and had no excuse especially after oxytocin after what you have recounted you should possibly have had another live pup, your bitch should never have been left not even for two minutes, don't blame yourself for not pushing to be there too, we all trust in our vets, your vet should have encouraged you (as long as you were calm) to stay, yours has made two vital mistakes. I too don't understand the c-section without the scan to confirm first, I hope you have not been charged for the section, if you have please take this further your bitch had an unnecessary operation (which sometimes to save a life or to find out more is certainly appropriate and a vet can not be blamed, but in this account all could have been known from a quick scan) not to mention a very questionable lost pup.

I'm afraid if it were me I would be changing vets, I would not be happy with what has happend at all. :-(

On the upside your singleton pup and your bitch now sound to be doing really well, singletons are different to a pup with litter mates, so unless you have an unusually wonderful bitch who will put extra time into playing and socialising with her pup make sure that you definitely come back on site from 3 weeks up to talk to others who have had singletons as you will need to know how to appropriately play with your little pup who will need you as a playmate too.

The plus side is you will bond extremely closely with this pup, be very vigilant and stay very close for the first couple of weeks this is when you will be needed the most and also keep a close eye that your girl does not get mastitis.

Looking forward to hearing with everyone else that your pup is thriving. :-)

The vet had left her to set up an Xray.  He would not have been able to return until the procedure was completed because of the radiation risk to himself and staff.  I suppose he could have asked the owner to stay but some vets may prefer not to put them at risk either As we were not there we do not know the exact time line between the oxytocin and how long he spent considering before deciding there was inadequate response and he needed to move on and prepare for a section.
I do think the whole incident should be looked into but I don't think we are really in a position here to judge whether things could have been done differently and better than how it appears.

I see your point Isabel, but the vet called me in whilst she was setting up the x ray to wait (whilst my dog was out the back) and said we'd have to go out at the time she took it, so I don't understand why we couldn't just wait with our dog for some of the time she was setting it up (the room was a bit cramped).  Even though she set the x ray up, she never thought to take one again later before opening my girl which could have prevented the unecessary op.

I had used an out of hours hospital of the same branch of vets the week before and been very impressed.  Had I known my local vet was so il equipped and didn't have a scanner or room in the practice to accomodate us I would have gone straight to the other hospital (considerably further and I don't drive but we did have time at that stage).

Carrington I have just sent you a message

What a terrible time you and your bitch have been through I changed Vets recently 7 weeks into my bitches pregnancy as I felt my other Vets of 10 years were being very awkward about my bitch receiving the Canine Herpes Vac. I was disgusted by their attitude
I have since found a "breeder" friendly Vet who I have nothing but praise for as my bitch was ill after delivering her litter of 8. We had a set back at 3 weeks when I had to make the awful decision to have one of my pups PTS, not something I ever want to do again, I never been so broken hearted.  I hope that people considering breeding read this thread (and plenty of others on here) and have a long hard think before entering into the world of breeding.
I sincerely hope your bitch and her new baby keep well. I know I said it in a post before but I never leave mine, not even to go to the toilet without someone on puppy watch for the first 2+ weeks. I don't intervene/help unless I have to but I am on constant watch.

I am so sorry about your loss. Please don't beat yourself up over this, I know it is easier said than done. Please enjoy your puppy and give lots of love to mum.

Thanks Chocoholic and Floradora.

I changed vets today, kicking myself for not doing so sooner as they are so nice at the new practice.  My usually calm and friendly dog was so petrified of the vet that she shook more than I have ever seen her.  Even after all that she has been through she is still so placid and trusting and never so much as growled at the vet whn he was handling her and her puppy.  She's got a bit of a temperature and is off her food (have hand fed some chicken today and this eve) so I said to hell with it and test her calcium levels as the last thing I want now is pre eclampsia.  She's on pro-kalin and seems a bit calmer now - I had a terrible night with her, she needs conctant reassurance, wants to be in my bed with me, but also wants to be near pup.  I may even transfer them over to the other half of my double bed surrounded by pillows if she starts that tonight.  I also have a chest and I could drag that over and sit the whelping box on that right next to my head (it is right next to my head but on the floor at the mo.  I have a low light on so it's not dark, and I really thought they'd be ok last night, but he still has trouble finding the teat, and I think she may get a bit of mastitis on her boobs at the top bless her as he only wants the ones near her hind legs (the yummy ones).

I have drafted a letter of complaint tonight but as I am so emotionally involved it's a bit all over the place and could do with a bit iof tweaking if anyone is super efficient and can be of help please let me know.

Chi-chi

After reading your threads, I am afraid I would want a few answers. I would complain, as you did not recieve
the care you were paying for. They didn't see to your bitch voluntary. There should be a code of practice.
I would be angry and would still not be happy even if all charges were dropped.
If they were short staffed they should have asked you if you minded standing with your bitch.
Any one in labour should not be left unattended. Sorry NO excuse!!

chi-chi. I really do feel for you. Could I offer a little advice before you actually send a letter off? Give it a couple of weeks for you to settle and have some sleep, get your lovely dogs happy and settled. The best thing you could have done is to change vets, at least you know that they are there for you.

Once you are feeling less sleep deprived, and more able to think positivly rather than very  emotionally. write out exactly what happened for yourself, in order of events, using whatever notes you have. (times, dates, who you saw etc) This will upset you again, but hopefully with some sleep and food you will be able to cope better. Once you have the facts in front of you, use this as a reference for your letter. keep it simple, as in you wish to make a formal complaint, and then state the facts as cooly and calmly as you can, with times dates people etc. At the end you can state the amount of mental stress this has caused you, and that this complaint is not a reaction to emotions which is why you have taken a couple of weeks to write. Request that you are informed of whatever action is likely to be taken, and that you would be willing to give evidence at a tribunal (or whatever the BVA have) should it be necessary.

Good Luck with it all.

Hi Snow queen and clamstorm.

Apologies for not responding sooner I have been mad busy with pet duties, and also had those pesky kids to anwer to in between ;)

I have not received any response to the letter I sent them 14 days ago today.

All is well with pup and Mum, and he had his first solid meal today and ate it like it was going out of fashion.  He is a stunner and such a beautiful nature, I am still hoping the couple who were waiting for the little bitch puppy we lost will consider having him.

I think my next step is to send my copy of the letter to the head of the group of London based practices and express my disattisfaction at not having received and acknowledgement.

I may speak to a dog law solicitor regarding fees charged and reimbursement for the lost puppy.  The couple who had been waiting for her will provide me with a letter corroberrating thier intention of ownership, and they already have a male Chi I trained for them, that I registered at that pactice to add to authenticity.

My main thing is to prevent this from happening to any other pet owner.  Which is why I am going to complain to the RCVS and BVA now.  I shall d/l the forms from RCVS and do it in the next day or so, if they at least speak to the vet, she will think twice before leaving another ion whelp bitch unattended after administering oxytocin, and also the way she dropped the pup and didn't acknowledge the fact.  Maybe also there will be more checks (scans or x rays) before opening up other dogs for c sections. 

Any advice warmly welcomed and thank you to some great CD members for your ongoing support (you know who you are).  :)

Hi Chi Chi,

I Hope your little man is doing well and you are feeling better in yourself. I do hope you get some closure from your letter and this vet is bought to task for what has happened.

Write everything down and keep it safe, keep it factual, I know this will be hard as you are emotionally involved. It may help if you ask someone else to read your next letter before you send it off.

I do feel for you as there is nothing worse than losing a pup.

Good luck and enjoy your wee man. xx

Thank you Floradora.  I have had an apologetic response from the head of the chain of vet practices in London, with a written report from the vet concerned.  She has been economical with the truth and misleading in parts of her account, but obviously she has 2 vet nurses to back her whereas I have my 17 year old son only.  I am going to take some time off from deciding what to do next.  I need to concentrate on home and family, and mum and pup etc and then decide what to do at a leter date.  The head of the group did waive all the fees charged to myself which is something, but in reality I would have preferred to pay double the fees and have had a happy Mum and another live puppy at the end of the experience.

My new vet practice (who I really like) has a notice on it that the council are trying to sell off the properties and land to the highest bidder and that their practice is under threat.  I hardly want a 5th Starbucks shop or GAP retail outlet as opposed to a decent surgery.