Had a bad whelping experience today with my girl, it is her first litter.

I'm a bit worried about the only remaining live pup as it doesn't seem to be suckling very well even though the vet said it was when I picked it up 2 and a half hours ago.

I've got puppy colostrum and nutri drops but I don't know how long to wait before trying.  I have wiped mums tummy with warm water to wash off chemicals the vet used when they mistakenly gave her a ceasarian.  He did latch on for abpout a minute and a half only about half an hour ago, but then Mum knocked him off the teat cleaning him.

Advice please anyone?

Don't panic yet.  If she accidently pushed him off cleaning him thats not necessarily rejection.  Even a feed of a couple of minutes is not so bad when they are new because nature arranges the milk to be more nutritious when tummies are tiny they just need to take it a little more often than when they can pile it in.  I would encourage him to latch on again by brushing his mouth over the nipple and then just gently prevent her from knocking him off until he appears to stop sucking.  Mother's milk is best and needs to be demanded to be supplied so I would not supplement unless absolutely necessary.
I'm sorry the delivery did not go so well.  It is a great pity the vet was not able to watch continuously I think they should have asked you to step through and help on that one :(  As to dropping the puppy when resuscitating I guess that is just an accident one that I often feared myself when handling wet puppies.
By the way Admin are not too keen on the mention of breeds in these posts although I am sure with just one puppy nothing is intended by that :)

The bitch I mentioned on your other thread didn't just push the whelps off the teats - she wanted to eat them very much indeed! We tried to restrain her so that the pups could feed and get colostrum for the first couple of days but she was a big deerhound, absolutely set on infanticide and it was just about impossible.

So I agree with Isablel - just because mum knocked him off the teat cleaning him doesn't mean she is rejecting him. Having seen a real rejection there is no mistaking it! Keep popping him back on the teat and see how he goes. If however he is still not suckling well by later on this evening I'd be inclined to gve him the nutridrops in case his blood sugar is low. I've found them very good for perking up a pup that isn't feeding as well as the rest. Again I agree with Isabel in that I would not think of supplementing yet, though I'd consider it if he still hasn't got a good feed by tomorrow.

Let us know how he goes anyway. :)

Thank you both.  Sorry to mention the name of the breed I didn't realise this wasn't appropriate, I was just worried as these breed of pups are small anyway and at risk of low blood sugar.

I know my girl isn't rejecting her pup, it was more an accident that she knocked him off as she was licking and cleaning him and herself.

Obviously with the anasthetic she is tired, maybe some of that has gone thru to pup too? 

If I give the nutridrops should I do this soleley without trying the lactol.  I wasn't sure pup would go all night wihout a proper food, was going to set my alarm every two hours to check and try to get him on a teat.

I don't want to interfere too much as this could be counter productive.

It's just that Admin is inclined to see puppy threads metioning the breed as advertising. But you only have one pup and you have a problem where the size of the pup is relevant so hopefully it will be OK. :)

I have no experience with tiny breeds but it makes sense hat a tiny pup could drop its blood sugar faster than a larger one. Hopefully someone with experience of the tinies will be along. I doubt that any anaesthetic is getting to the pup but obviously mum is tired.

I'd give the nutridrops alone at present and kep a close eye on things over night. If the pup still isn't suckling by tomorrow then I probably would give a bottle feed. But my experience is with large litters and a big breed where most of the pups are suckling to bring the milk down. As Isabel said the bitch needs to be suckled to bring her milk down.

Goodness you've all been through a lot!

I'd stay close by tonight (actually I stay close till they leave LOL) and make sure he gets a chance to nurse every couple of hours.  With reluctant feeders it could be tiredness or low blood sugar so nutridrops would help give him some energy.  To help him latch on try expressing a little milk from a teat (the ones near the back legs are usually best) so that he can taste it there.  It'll also help to get the milk flowing for him.  Tickle under his nose with the milky nipple and if he smells the milk and gets some on/in his mouth he should latch on nicely.  Had to do this with a tiny kitten once (smaller and less developed (younger) than the others when born) but he was fine once he got the hang of it.

Hope this helps
Dill

I can't seem to get milk down from her.  have tried to give a tiny amount of puppy colostrum and it's not really going too well.  Mum is over claning him anyway hence knocking him off the teat that time at 8.15 after he'd only been suckling for 1 min.  Now I have tried the colostrum she is cleaning him even more.  Poor Mum is so stressed she's just not sure what to do.

A one minute suckle is really not that bad for a new born.  Without being there it is hard to say how he actually doing.  Does he seem to have a decently strong suck when he is on the teat and does he seem quite contented between feeds?  I really would not be supplementing anything unless you really have too, if you cover him with food she is going to clean her with increased interest :) I think you need to strike a balance between watching over them and creating more stress in her by passing on your anxieties. 

I've given a small amount of puppy colostrum, aside from that small suck at 8.15pm he's not exhibited signs of a strong suckle.

Mum seems so miserable, just very depressed.

Will leave them to it and check them in a couple of hours.  I agree Isabel, I just am not sure where the balance is, doing too much and not doing enough etc.  Puppy must have milk to survive but if puppy doesn't suckle on Mum her milk won't come down.

What an awful experience you've had :-( I personally wouldn't leave them unattended at all, not even for a minute. Mum might be really quite tired from the op and as she's a first time Mum I would be keeping a
close eye on them.

I'm really unsure what to do for the best, have had some earlier success with pup feeding but have started a new thread in hope of getting quick advice.

Please try to keep all info on this one thread :)

Apologies for starting a new thread I was desperate for advice at the time and wanted to have a more eye catching title in case anyone was still awake at that time.

I will know the rules now for future ref.

Thanks

Glad to see in your other thread that he is feeding now. How is he this morning?

Pup wriggling around box but still not ctively looking for teat.  Slept til 8 so not sure if he suckled then, but I haven't seen him suckle since then.  Not sure whether to give nutri drops again.  Last dose of 2 drops at 3am before that 11pm  pup weighs 110g. 

If anyone has any pointers please pm me or post to thread.

Thanks

I have never used nutri drops so perhaps others can advise but as they are a stimulant there may be issues regarding using then too frequently as these things can have an effect on the heart so I think you should speak to your vet before continuing.
I must say from reading your accounts I really can't tell if you really do have reason for concern or whether you are worrying unecessarily and possibility to the detriment of the developing bond between the dam and puppy.  Do you have any experienced breeder contacts that you could ask to call round?

Does he feel warm and plump? If he is, and isn't crying all the time I'd just keep plugging him on mum. Check his weight but don't worry if he has lost a few grams - most puppies do on the first day. I agree with Chocaholic that I woldn't leave them unobserved for a minute. It's exhausting but we've all been there and survived. :)

Well the good news is that things have taken a turn for the better.

Didn't give the nutridrops but took a break from my girl and her pup as the other dogs needed to be attended to, and my poor son has food poisoning.

Came back and pup had managed to latch on to mums rear teat *all by himself* (1st time) and was suckling strongly.  Even better she wasn't panicking and trying to lick him off, or standing up to move away from him, so my work reassuring her and putting him on lots of teats last night must have helped her to get used to the sensation of feeding him, as she seems much more relaxed.

She seems more worried than she needs to be when he cries a bit, but I think this is because of all she's been through.  Puppy is warm and he is plump and more active.  Now I have seen him suckle unaided for the first time I am so relieved!  My stress levels are drastically reduced.

I will keep a watchful eye on them throughout today, but be very hands off now. 

You've all been a great help I am very grateful.

Glad that things are going better now. :)

Is he holding his weight.  If he is gaining then he is feeding.  Remember he has all the milk-bar to himself.

I have had a single pup in a litter and the mum who had had 2 previous litters was not very settled for the first week. Lots of reassurance and patience paid off and from the 2nd week mum hardly got out of the box. Constantly feeding the pup, she was huge. Cleaning was a problem as mum kept on so washing and washing but again a few words about it and she behaved better.
I brought a soft toy for the pup so that when mum left the box she had something to cuddle into. She was more than happy with that.
The only problem I had was the pup was slower than normal and did not get up on her feet until nearly 6 weeks. On the advise of another breeder who had had single pups in litters, I moved her into the thick of it all and she was brought into the lounge in a playpen with mum. With all that to look at she was soon up and about and at 7 weeks was out of the playpen and in with the other dogs (4 labs and a rotti!!!)
I was very lucky that I had a puppy buyer who visited and yet knew that at 8 wks I may keep the puppy, not many people would have gone along with that. At 8 weeks she went to the puppy buyer as I did not like her front anglation. She is now 4 years old and still has the soft elephant toy she had in the whelping box!!!
Good luck with your baby.

Thanks for such a wonderul and encouraging story :) it really brought a smile to my lips.

Glad to hear things are going better now, if you aren't stressed mum will relax more and you can all get some rest, which you probably need after all you've been thru.

Hope your son's feeling better too.

Regards
Dill