My Brother would like to lose weight and I was talking to him about going to weight watchers (some unknown reason that doesn't sound rightso hoping thats what it's called.... I know that sounds really stupid I can only blame giving up smoking for this I think I'am taking in to much oxygen to the brain now:rolleyes: )
Any way he wants to go but won't go on his own, would they allow me to go with him even though I don't need to lose weight

sorry for going off on one ...I blame that on the giving up smoking thing as well (ok I might have always done that L.O.L  Annie

Annie, good for you for encouraging your brother!  I don't think that non-members are allowed to attend W.W.'s meetings, you need to have at least 7lbs (I think) before you can join.  Do you not know anyone who already goes there?  Maybe they could take your brother under their wing? 

You could check what support his doctors surgery can offer him.  Weight watchers isn't cheap and personally I think there is something disturbing about being humiliated infront of a crowd when you haven't lost the required amount of weight reinforced by differing fees corresponding to how much weight you've lost.  Many people don't need that psychological pressure,

Weight loss is a simple equation for a life style, eat a little bit less and exercise a little bit more.  However I know how much of a challenge that can be - there is no simple answer.

It's encouraging your brother is in the right frame of mind to improve his health and you might be surprised at what your GP can offer, at no cost either!

Good luck and well done for being so supportive.

If their going to humilite him then he's definitely not going, do they do that to people I thought they were there to support you?

Oh no, they have never humiliated anyone, I went when I was a fat 16 year old (in the 80's) and they were great and I always stayed for the talks too, it was so interesting & inspirational.  I lost 2 stone through going to WW as it motivates you, you want to see them write the weight lost every week on your card.    

Most of the blokes that attended just went for the weigh-in not the talk but never should a slimming group humiliate you.

I've been to lots of different weightwatchers classes and was never, ever humiliated at any of them, no one gets to know your weight loss except you and the class leader and the person who writes the stuff down!

Hi Annie, does he have much to lose?  I have been on the lighter life plan for 3 1/2 weeks and have lost a stone and a half.  To go on it you must have at least 3 stone to lose and they only run same sex groups so it would be a closed group of up to 12 men he would be with every week. For women the initial programme runs for 14 weeks but for men it is only 8 weeks and if they stick to it without cheating men can lose between 3 and 4 1/2 stone in the 8 weeks.

It is quite expensive (£66pw) but you get all of your food packs (soups, shakes and bars) and 2 hours group counselling each week although it is CBT based exercises you do not pouring your heart out to the group.  I'm finding it really easy and the weight is literally falling off.  Although it sounds expensive if you take into account food shopping, alcohol, take aways, going out for dinner, the odd chocolate bar here and there when you need change/buy a paper/passing the vending machine etc it works out at not far off what I would spend in a week anyway.  If anything I'm finding I've got more money in my pocket at the end of the week because I'm not browsing in the shops/supermarket buying wee things I don't need.

In my experience, no Slimming Club Lecturer would humiliate any member either individually or in front of the other members!  There is no sliding scale of charges relating to the amount of weight lost. Weight Watchers have a rigorous training scheme and all of their lectureres have a weight problem themselves.......and No, I am not a W.W's Lecturer!  :)

Hi Ali yes he's really over weight though he does try to eat healthy, and he has his garage turned into a gym and he works out every morning
But for all that he's still over weight guessing here about 6 or 7 stone and he has been to the doctors but they just don't seem to be of any help.. meaning they haven't told him how to go about loosing weight, or even given him a diet sheet (unfortunately he's been a widower for the last 6 years and he's bring up 2 kids so money is tight)  but thank you for trying to help...Annie

I go to Weight Watchers every Thursday night and it cost £4.95 a week.  I find it really good and actually enjoy going every week.  They certainly do not humiliate you.  They are there to encourage you and help you.  I need the discipline of a weekly weigh in.

I bellive the Cambridge diet is fairly similar but is cheaper.  That might be to do with the counselling aspect but I don't know enough about the Cambridge diet to comment on its content.  I have heard it is much cheaper though.  Although they are still fairly expensive I have seen it as an investment and a commitment to myself that involves some sacrafice for the long term good.  Hope he finds something suitable and if he is web literate there are many online support communities available and on the plus side he is at an advantage being a man as they lose weight quicker than women.

[url=]If their going to humilite him then he's definitely not going, do they do that to people I thought they were there to support you?[/url]

No, they dont do that,  nobody other than you and the leader know how much weight you need to loose, what your weight is , or how much you have lost.   if he stays for the after talk,  they may ask "who has lost weight this week" and how much, but nobody is going to force you or humiliate you if you dont want to tell.

Yes some people can  loose weight on their own, some need a little help, they has a free  joining promotion  at the moment and I think its around £4  a meeting.

you will also get a menu planner  to help you along.

Find you nearest meeting, phone them up, and  talk to the leader, explain, he is a little self conscious  about going on his own, and would it be alright if you went along with him for the first wk or so.

I've just joined Weightwatchers and lost nearly half a  stone in 2 weeks by eating a fair bit and counting points. I've tried to lose weight before (need to get a couple of stone off at least, thank goodness I'm tall  ... :D ). I've been surprised really by how good it is -I've always kind of looked down a bit on them and others like them but I find the weekly weigh in and chat after is very good and motivating.

When I was younger I had more self discipline, now I'm 45 I seem to need a bit more help :P I'd say to him to go for it, I don't feel humiliated and don't agree with that kind of thing and would soon complain! We are weighed with others in the room but they are not up close and no-one laughs or makes comments as after all, they are all in the same boat.

Just my view :)

Lindsay
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Slimming World has always been the best for me. No 'diet' food allowed! Just healthy eating, which doesn't mean you can't still have your favourite choccy, beer, wine etc every day. So you'll be eating just like a 'normal' person! The classes have men & women & I'll think you'll find that you can take a friend to class for moral support. They don't give you a target weight to aim for, just a pound at a time until you find a weight you'll be comfortable with, so no pressure. Your starting weight WILL NOT be told to anyone & your weight from then on is still kept secret. My friend went & weighed in at well over 33 stone, so there is no worring about their scales!
You can find your nearest class at www.slimming-world.co.uk.
Good luck, but please don't try fad diets, they seem to be so unhealthy.

Thanks for the replies, though he's in his 40s and has a load of responsibilities (more than I could cope with) he's still my baby Brother l.o.l and I didn't want him to be humiliated just for asking for help. so your replies have helped I will ring and find out more about it... and to see if they would let me go with him for a week or so...what if I said I would join and pay the £4.00 just until he's more relaxed I just want him to be happy about going I'am sure once he's been a few times he'll be alright     Thanks again

Oh do try them, they are a good bunch and it really does help having that disicpline of the weekly weigh in. Also the re education of  real food in realistic lifestyle circumstances is great...nobody can live their lives on certain food replacements and a harsh gym routine, thats not real life. So better to learn again how much of what is the best route.
Karen

Most people put on weight by either eating 'on the run' - ie not having proper mealtimes and just 'grazing' all day - or by having too-large portions. We were advised that often the simple change of having smaller portions (if necessary on smaller plates so that it doesn't look stingy!) can make all the difference between gaining and losing weight.

I can honestly say I have known loads of people loose weight with Weightwatchers...................and they have all put it back on again.  One friend said she knew it wasn't going to be a long term solution for her when the woman at the door, collecting the money, told her what a great organisation it was and she had been coming for 20 years and yes she was comfortably round :).  I don't think any reducing 'diets' are the solution but rather a whole different attitude needs to be adopted to counter what has to be the wrong one at present if you suffer from a weight problem.  Looking at the products sold in their name in the shops I don't think Weightwatchers encourage that attitude.  They are all subsitutes for 'treat' food after 'treat' food when in reality people have to learn to accept that 'treat' food is to be enjoyed very occasionally as, after all, that is what a treat is.  I don't think it is really in Weightwatchers interest for people to change though is it? ;)
I would try the doctor again.  Many surgeries hold nutrition clinics or have a dedicated nurse to advise, they can also prescribe drugs like Reductil that may help while new patterns are established. 
Like JG says portion control is something that many people need to adopt and it's not so difficult when you consider it's the first few mouthfuls of a tasty meal that you enjoy the most :)  Eating regularly, at least 3 meals of pretty much equal calories also helps which for most people means an awful lot more at breakfast than they are used to.  Low GI foods also help with hunger issues by releasing energy at a nice steady rate.

I started W/W last May to loose 3 stone and it has been brilliant. I reached my goal weight just before Xmas and still go once or twice a month to  keep a check on things. Now I have reached goal it is free to attend as long as I stay within 5lbs of my goal weight.  It was very supportive and as far as I know there are no restrictions on taking a friend for moral support even if they do not need to loose weight, just ask the leader of your nearest club. It was free to join, not many charge the joining fee there is always a way round it and it costs £4.95 per week. You do not get on the scales in front of everyone it is done sympathetically and I found that knowing I would be weighed every week a real incentive. You can eat what you like within your points total for each day and save points through the week for special occasions like nights out or parties. They teach you how to eat sensibly and well, I never really felt hungry and you soon learn the points values of food. It is not necessary to buy the products but they are there if you wish to and I have to say for a meal in a hurry they do some great meals available at the supermarkets. Even OH will eat and enjoy them on occasion!!
Tell him good luck and be there for him I feel so much better now, fitter, happier, and much more energetic. Loosing weight is never a bad thing if you are overweight, it can only do him good.

Just a thought, at least 4 people at work have tried these lite life or Cambridge diets and yes they have initially lost weight but as soon as they go back to real food they pile it back on again, your brother needs to learn what foods are best for him and teach himself to eat properly. It will be worth it for him

Agree :) Son's girlfriend was on the Cambridge Diet until recently - she looked and felt awful. Fortunately, she had the good sense to give it up and is now just following a healthy eating 'diet' :) I'm shocked at the cost of the Cambridge diet and feel that people are just being conned :(

Daisy

Some people can just limit themselves to 3 meals a day, with good portion control & the occasional treat.
But when you have a weight problem , it's not that easy. You can want to eat even when full up & it's not the case of not being a strong willed person, a slob or any of the other ways that some people think of over weight people. A person can run a succesful  business, be very controlled in other parts of their lives, but over eating is their Akilies heal.
  A slimming (I hate that word) class can really give you emotional support aswell as learning about healthier foods. The fact you have to attend once a week helps keep you on your food plan too. Slimming World is NOT about portion control, calories, fads or limiting your food. You can have fantastic amounts of food on your plate & you CAN graze all day depending on the plan you choose to follow. It may sound a bit confusing, but check out the website Annie & see want you think. It's a great way to eat, especially for men ( & women) who have big appetites.

>Some people can just limit themselves to 3 meals a day, with good portion control & the occasional treat.

But when you have a weight problem , it's not that easy.
Exactly :) and I don't underestimate how difficult that is for some people but that is what has to be tackled.

>Slimming World is NOT about portion control, calories, fads or limiting your food. You can have fantastic amounts of food on your plate & you CAN graze all day depending on the plan you choose to follow.

I'm sorry but that is exactly why I think these things do not work in the long term, it is at odds with the medical and scientific model of a good diet (I use the term not meaning a reducing diet).

It's like  anything in life, if you're told you can't have or have to reduce something you want more. But, if you have the freedom to have a unlimited quantity of something & I'm not talking chocolate, cakes etc, but basic heathly foods, veg, fruits, potatoes, meat etc, you may at first go barmy, but then you find your balance & that is the education of the classes. It gives you, the person, control over what goes into to your body. It's like being at school & told not to laugh or talk & that's all you want to do....I know, I did it in a important meeting at work once & had to leave to room has I got a fit of the giggles...I was 30 odd at the time!
Each person is so different, but when people have a real food & or weight problem what ever helps them is good. But I do think fad diets, tablets etc are a hiding to nowhere.

Good luck to all out there that are trying hard, be aware that your health comes first, then your clothes size! My best friend died last year, at the young age of 44,with a terrible weight problem. He knew the health risks of his over eating, but had been that way all his life. The thought of leaving behind his wife, 4 children & grand daughter still didn't help in him loosing weight. And this had been dicussed on many ocassions, beleive me! We were very open with our thoughts. So anyone out there, do well, eat as healthy as you can, but we can't be angels all the time, we're only human!!

Yes it can be difficult to limit what you eat that is why I say it is good to get professional dietary advise on the type of foods that will help ease that particular problem.  I'm afraid I disagree that in having the freedom of unlimited quantities you will find your balance as the evidence around us these days quite clearly suggests not :)
Of course we can't be angels all the time, I have an Indian or Mexican take away or some other treat probably at least weekly and if I am on holiday, for the whole week or fortnight, I do not go to any particular efforts to seek out healthy options although when I spot them I am usually jolly glad to see them, as I am to returning to a better diet, after such a spell.  I think this is because when you have developed a healthy eating habit you miss it and the feeling of well being that comes with it, a new and more welcome addiction is created :)

Another tip is to eat more slowly, so that there's more time for the message to get from the stomach to the brain that you're not so hungry any more (takes at least 15 minutes). So don't prepare the next forkful from your plate until you've swallowed the previous one - and chew your food properly!

My Auntie Grace used to put her knife & folk down inbetween mouthfuls  & placed her hands on her lap....always sat at the table...never had to radio or tele on..just conversation..that was in the 60's..how life changes!

I would have really enjoyed dinner with Auntie Grace :)

The problem is (and I am speaking from experience!) most people who are always trying to lose weight, do not have to be hungry to eat, we just like eating  :)

That's why I suggest seeing a Doctor about using something like Reductil to help in that transition from one eating habit to a new one.  I love food too, spend a lot of time shopping for it, cooking it and enjoying it but I really don't have any desire to over-eat in fact if I indulge in any gluttony I feel so uncomfortable with that bloated sort of feeling it increases my aversion to it.

I've been on reductil for 18 months now, at first it worked really well and I was losing weight but for some reason I've started to retain fluid and have put on all the weght I lost and a bit more - same old story :-( . Doctor is at a loss to explain it.

If Reductil works for you it is very good , but you have to have your blood pressure checked as they won't let you go on it unless your blood pressure is good to start with.

And I bet she really enjoyed her food too, by eating in a civilised manner, rather than absent-mindedly stuffing her face whilst concentrating on something else!

Interestingly one reason I avoided WWs was because I had also heard peeps kept going back so therefore to my mind it didn't work. However, the people I have spoken to tend to enjoy following the plans, (which really encourage healthy eating plus the odd treat) and the company. I think peeps tend to go back after they've put on perhaps half a stone and then when they lose that they leave, then you might see them again the next year after Xmas or something. I don't see that, now, as being a silly thing, whereas before I did.

Not sure what's changed my mind, except I've tried many methods over the years and I've just gradually put weight on. The only thing getting it off is WWs and I feel I am once again listening more to my body (a skill I want to regain so that i can tell when I'm really hungry and when my eyes are bigger than my stomach :P ).

I don't eat any special diet food, I disagree with that as I believe much of it is full of sugar. I just eat loads of vegetables and good stuff, plus the odd choccie bar as and when I have allowed for it. For the first time for ages, I believe I can get this extra weight off! I so want to get back into my good jeans ;)

Lindsay
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Well said Lindsay, my sentiments exactly!  I have never been more than a stone and a half over my goal in 30 years, thanks to W.W.'s, I also never eat junk food! 

Losing weight is not easy, especially when you have a lot to lose. I don't know about WW, but I have used Slimming World, and found them wonderful. The food is 'normal', so therefor you are eating what you will be eating when you have reached your goal. There is the help and support of the leader, and the rest of the group if you need it. It is a healthy, slow and steady weight loss, which when combined with exercise will help you not only lose weight, but not so fast that the skin left behind doesn't have a chance to tighten up. The trouble with diets such as Cambridge is that yes, the weight loss is spectacular, but your body does not have chance to pull back in, so very often those using it go on to need surgery (tummy tuck etc) to remove the excess lose skin. Same goes for stomach stapleing etc. The other thing is, you are not retraining yourself to eat healthy foods when living on liquid and diet bars which are like sweet drinks and choc. Also, after coming off them, you have a hell of a job keeping the weight off even when eating normal foods. I know that because I used Cambridge and Micro Diets in the 80's.

I personally don't like diet drugs. Xenacal and Reductil are the ones usually prescribed now, the first removes fat from your diet, which means you go to the loo a LOT if you have fatty foods. Or even if you don't, as it removes a % of the fat before it goes into your body, and expels it. Nuff said lol. Reductil was first marketed as an anti-depresant, and a side effect to that was the patients lost their appitite, causing a weight loss. It can raise blood presure, so you have to have monthly checks, and its use is limited to 12 mths. I just don't feel drugs are the way to go,a change in eating and exercise is whats really needed, and some people really prefere the help and support of slimming groups, and if it works then at least it is with good food, which helps to re-train the appitite and ones individual attitude towards food. It is also structured, you can look at a book and see what you can and can't eat, quantities etc. Some people need that. I know a lot of people that have lost weight this way, and kept it off. I have also known people use xenacal/reductil and lose a lot of weight, but gain it again. The solution to weight maintainance is making the right choices and not returning to old eating habits that caused the weight gain in the first place.

Doctors can help with healthy eating plans and advice, and could refer to a dietitian, so that may be worth exploring. The GI diet is said to be very good, have a look at the book and see if it could fit into his lifestyle. whichever route he takes, I wish him the very best of luck.

I would not suggest the use of Reductil without using the dietary advise and support available from the medical profession but it has been shown to be effective in helping people adapt to the change.  If people are adopting a lower fat diet at the same time the side effects are going to be minimised.  I agree with you it should not be used while continuing with old habits of eating high fat.

reductil works by suppressing the appitite, working on your brain to make you think you are full. So, yes, it can be a way of bringing someone onto a healthy way of eating, with smaller portion sizes. What it fails to do is re-educate what you eat, so willpower is still needed to resist the choccy bar etc. The side effects may be worth the risk in some serious cases of obesity, under strict medical supervision, certainly better than operations on the stomach which are very risky for obese people anyway. When you stop taking them, as this also has to be done gradually and under supervision, you can run the risk of actually wanting to eat more initially. So, as with all things, it has its place, as does Xenacal. With this one, unless you eat an almost totally fat free diet, you are going to need the loo more. The severity of the reaction will certainly make you avoid that plate of chips or the choccy bar, I can tell you ;)

You have to think, do I want a chemical in my body that alters my way of thinking or how my body reacts, or do I want a more natural approach? Just how medically urgent is my weight loss, and what has my GP suggested. I believe they are quite costly for doctors to prescribe too, putting quite a burden on them in relation to other drugs that are essential, such as cancer drugs or whatever. So, a balance has to be made re prescribing them on all sides.

This is why I am in support of places like SW or WW, healthy eating, GI diet, anything that uses natural, unprocessed food coupled with more exercise. That way you learn to be sensible,control your own portions and enjoy food.

>What it fails to do is re-educate what you eat

That is why I suggest you use it in conjunction with medical guidance over dietary habits.
I am not suggesting it should always be used either.  What I am suggesting is that people consult their GPs who will be able to assist them in getting evidence based guidance in dietary choices and can help determine whether it will be useful as support.
The GP can decide if the cost is justified particularly when it is likely to reduce other expenditure on health care for an overweight patient in fact it would not be available on the NHS if it was not thought to be cost effective.

calmstorm, many of the VLCD's on the market don't just work with clients while they are on the foodpacks but work on the longer term introducing foods gradually and getting to the root of the overeating.  As for loose skin, that depends on the amount of weight you have to lose rather than the speed you lose it at as even on weight watchers if you lose 8 stone you will have loose skin and skin can apparently tighten itself for 2 years after the weight loss ends.

VLCD?

Very low cal diet

That doesn't sound very healthy.  What about a sensible amount of calories :)

> That doesn't sound very healthy

It's just an expensive 'crash diet' :( How can just eating soups and shakes teach you how to eat properly ?? My son's girlfriend was near to collapse when she gave up after just 10 days - she is 23 :( :(

Daisy

ali
I guess I'm biased because in the 80's things were different. However, what concerns me with these fast weight losses is the loss of lean muscle tissue as well as the fat, and also the fact that liquids replace food for such a long time (depending on how much you have to lose). yes, people have lose skin on any weight loss if they have many stones to lose, but as with tummy ops to stop weight, the exceptionally fast loss does not give the skin or underlying muscle time to go back into shape, hense the reconstruction ops. VLCD will also interfere with the bodys metablism (excuse sp) and you lose an awful lot of water, which I suppose is why you have to drink so much.

If it works for you, and things have improved with the way they are monitored, then maybe its not so bad, its not for me to say in any individual case, same as with the slimming drugs, everything has its place. Good Luck, you are doing so well! The next step, when you have finished, is keeping it off, and I think that can be the hardest part with ANY diet......;) ;)

Am I right in thinking the cals are around 440 a day, or thereabouts, depending on how you do it?

thanks for your words of support calmstorm.  It is between 440 and 500 calories per day which filled me with horror initially but now I'm secure in the knowledge that I'm living quite comfortably on my fat   With regards to the metabolism I'm not sure if that will affect me as I'm on thyroxine so my metabolism is being partially controlled by drugs anyway. 

There have been a number of reports into lean muscle tissue loss in dieters and the studies have shown that you lose muscle to fat on a ratio of 1:3 regardless of what diet you are on and regardless of how quickly you lose the weight. These studies have also shown that you are no more likely to put the weight back on after a VLCD than any other diet so fingers xed I learn a few lessons and ease up on the chocolate greed!

Going back to the original post and the interest in WW - just thought I would point out that ifyou go on line they do an At Home programme so the brother wouldnt have to go to class and therefore find a baby sitter, the OP wouldnt have to spend money for nothing - she could help and support the at home programme.

Maxine

Slimming World - lost 4 1/2 stone - loved the diet just got a bigger appetite through it!

Put 5 stone back on.

Weight Watchers - Lost 3 1/2 stone - got bored and resentful counting points all the time

Put 1 stone back on.

Rescued a dog - lost 2 stone and kept it off!!!

Rescued a dog - lost 2 stone and kept it off!!!

:P

Yes that's probably the best way!

Re WWs again, I was thinking about this. In just the 2 weeks I'm much more relaxed about my eating, am still eating loads but mostly very good stuff. I did treat myself to a  chocolate cheesecake in Cafe Nero yesterday with some friends but then today, I've had a Quorn stir fry and will have fish tonight with fresh vegetables and I can go in next week and know I'll still have lost some weight because I'm counting those points. The treat with friends tends to be about every 6 weeks.

There's also a really easy method called the Core plan, of not counting anything but just eating totally healthy food such as wholegrains, fish, meat, eggs and cheese etc but allowing up to 21 points for anything else fancied. I may try that sometime if I get fed up of counting points, but my experience has been that counting points is not such a hassle once you start to know what things are. I've got to know regulars like olive oil, new and jacket potatoes, porridge, baked beans bread and fruit, and find it's easy to look up the rest. I prepare ahead and plan for about 3 days worth and shop for that too. I allow myself a treat when I shop, so get about 2 a week. This week I'm having those lovely Big Purple ones :P \Last week it was hot cross buns (low fat from Sainsburys, surprisingly good) and the week before it was wholemeal and honey scones again from Sainsbury's. I don't feel deprived and sort of look forward to weighing in.

My experience of Online didn't work (this was Rosemary Conley) - I think I need the motivation of actually being weighed but each to their own :)

Lindsay
x

Hi Thanks for all the info, have spoken to my Brother about weight watchers and Slimming world and he's going to decide which one he's going to (I think if he does the point system it will be to much of a hassle for him.... but it's his decision) he's going to have a look at both their sites.... and then I can find out if I can go with him ( if you met him coming down the street you'd probably want to cross to the other side,his problem is he's terrified of walking into a room full of women I have told him their not going to eat him........Again thanks for your help

I go to Slimming World and yes their are men in my local group.
This past week I lost 3  lbs - since the start of September last year I have lost
41 lbs (just 1 lb short of 3 stone).

Pam