Hi All,

In a couple of months I will be able to show my new pup. Thing is I am having a dillema because looking at the entry forms in the KC rules it quite clearly states that no substance is to be used to alter the caot etc. So this came as a big suprise as at all the boxer shows I have ever been to I have seen people putting finishing touches to their dogs white flash on the faces and even blacK pencil to enhance the black pigment behind say around the lips and under the nose.

So do I go with the "norm" and make up or risk getting put down for not having as sparkling dog? My pup has a white flash on her face but on one side is a mixture of white and black hairs and I've been told that we can white it up - but isn't that cheating? I really don't know what to do.

If I go with the make up thing, whereon earth do you get it and what is it calleD?

Also one other question - I need one of those pins to stick your card no. to at shows anyone know where I get one - I need one quick for our monthly meeting/rally.

Thanks
X

I cant believe that the brightness of the white in a Boxer is a major factor in judges opinions - or maybe that why so many are such bad movers, because they are judged on face make up. I would try showing yr pup  as it is, no make up.

For whiteness, generally white chalk is used. You can get this either in block form or loose powder form. You can get this from good pet stores, or sometimes they are sold at shows. You may even find some in the pet section of a good supermarket.

Your show clips are sometimes sold at shows for just 20p. You can also order specific breed ring clips on the web. Cant think of anywhere else you can get them...?

Be aware that coat tests are done at Championship shows on a random basis.  If any substance is found in the dogs coat then any awards they have won that day are taken away.  There were two cases of disqualification in the Kennel Gazette this month, both the CC and Res CC winners in one sex had their awards taken away.

Of course you should try to exhibit your dog to its best advantage and starkly contrasting colours on a dog are very eyecatching, but putting make-up on a dog IS against Kennel Clubs rules.

Debs

I wouldn't bother quite frankly - is the hair long enough to perhaps pluck some of the black hairs or is the area too big? My tricolour Cav has a small black spot in her white blaze, and once or twice I tried chalk powder and white 'lipstick' type stuff, but it always looked so fake. Now I just pluck a few black hairs out to minimise how obvious it looks and we do fine at the shows. :-)

Now I know why Boxers are chalked after all this time , to hide poor movement!!   wonder if it goes for all other breeds that chalk up.

getting back to the question   Amibobs asked,  I would`nt worry  to much  , not all Boxer people chalk up,  just make sure she has had her face  and feet washed, take some wet wipes with you and a little shampoo to wash her feet before you go in the ring,  (as sometimes getting  from car to ringside they can dirty their white feet.  If you feel you want to chalk her white   bits,  dont over do it, you dont want it coming off on the judges hands.and sometimes you can end up getting all over yourself as well as your dog.  if she is good enough she will do well without chalking her.

We all know  chalking is a no no, but it goes on,   have you ever sat round a bull terrier ring  .....LOL      I remember sitting watching a  lovely white boy in the ring , and when the judge went over him, he ened up with chalk all over his suit/ hands , then the dog shook himself,  anyone that was in 3ft of him was covered in the stuff. 

If you decide to whiten up,  the little chalk sticks are good for faces ,  they are just like a lipstick, and you will be able to get them at a any show you go to.

But I would start as you mean to go on,  your nerves will be on overdrive as it is, so it will be one less thing to worry over,  dont worry what others are doing,  as  long as she  has a gleaming coat, trimmed wiskers ,  any untidy hairs  on tail and down around her back end  are trimmed out , to give a clean outline,   you will be fine.

Good luck.

What dog was it that won a best in show and 2006 and the judge and owner were stood there all smiles on the front page of DogWorld with white patches all over their trousers?  :d

I would never risk doing anything to my dogs and I'm sorry if your dog has such an obvious fault that you  have to hide it them it shouldn't be shown!

Its not done to hide faults. The chalk is used to to enhance white feet etc, and thats it enhance not hide. (as it is in many other breeds) I dont agree with any dog being heavely made up it should only be used to clean and whiten up.. most of it should be out before entering the ring... and definatley NOT come off on the judges hands, leave chalk clouds when the animal is touched and neither should the handler be covered in obvious chalk markings.
There are some very heavley made up animals curentley being shown, by big names... How are new comers supposed to know any different?,, when those at the "top of the tree do it so much":rolleyes: It leaves those further down at a very big disadvantage unless they follow suit, and often they dont know any different.

Anything other than water must, by KC regulations, be removed from a dog prior to entry in the ring, to avoid possible disqualification.

Easy. Don't do it. 'Enhancement' is Cheating. If Big Names cheat, then honest people should report them, or be tarred with the same brush.

:Thats a a lot of reports then..... right across the breeds not just boxers. The problem being most long standing exhibitors i find use or turn a blind eye prefering not to report... As a new exhibitor why should we as the ones who notice and comment on it most( being new) Report.. Instantly shooting ourselves in the foot Its got nothing to do with being honest imho (not reporting) i want to stay exhibiting in my breed without being made to feel uncomfortable. Creating Major ripples is not the way to do that surely. The shows themselves need policeing more, the danger of being caught would soon put people off, any sort of enhancement.

>the danger of being caught would soon put people off, any sort of enhancement.

Exactly. It's purely down to how strongly the individual feels about cheats. If every honest person complained, it'd soon stop. If everyone turns a blind eye, it carries on.

Surely it's the JUDGES that should notice and act, not other exhibitors.

Yes they should. But if they don't, then the honest exhibitors must.

Surely it's the JUDGES that should notice and act, not other exhibitors.

Easy for judges to do when there's clouds of chalk coming off a dog but the OP was talking about make-up too.  How do I (as a judge) know that the eyerims have got eyeliner on if it's put on correctly? or that nose pigment has been enhanced?  Personally I don't go around wiping my hands over dogs' eyerims and noses ;)  It's the same with conditioner in the coat, or hairspray.

Debs

Ah yes Debs, very good point -never thought of that. :)

It's a shame it isn't picked up on and acted on. In cats (Persians anyway) we use baby powder for grooming, I mean for every day grooming, to keep the coat grease free and clean without needing too many frequent baths. If any trace of powder is found in the coat at a show the cat WILL be disqualified instantly and it certainly does happen.

It does make you wonder why it isnt picked up on so much in dogs so much, doesnt it. I agree Goldmali , surely the judges should clamp down on the problem? Bottom line is whilst people think there is an opportunity to get away with it, some will try.

Maybe it is because cats don't have handlers.

They dont get themselves ready do they lol  I no there is a universal debate on whom is smarter (cats or dogs) but thats impressive.( forgive my ignorance would'nt have a clue on exhibiting a cat) Someones still got to clean em up prepare etc so can still happen im assuming

Yes but the showing is anonymous so the judge won't know whose cat theya re excusing so makes it easier to do.

It could be a point Babara, I know from being a judge myself (of all sorts of weird and wonderful things but not dogs:  -non pedigree cats, hamsters, mice and other small animals) that it is a LOT easier to say what you think, to mark down and disqualify when you do NOT have an owner standing nearby! It shouldn't matter, no, but when an owner is hovering next to you listening to every word you say it DOES get to you more than if the owner is far away or not even in the same HALL in the case of cats.

It's a bit like saying "Blimey, that child's ugly" in front of the parents!

LOL!! :D And the very worst thing is when you judge a PET class, and the exhibitor starts disagreeing with you! Eg. I say "Hm, this girl's a bit on the thin side, I have to mark her down on condition I'm afraid" and the exhibitor jumps in and says "I'll have you know she had a HUGE litter 4 weeks ago so considering that she's in EXCELLENT condition!" :rolleyes:

I find myself guilty of much the same at times, except at the vet's. Can't think of a good example right now but the vet will make some remark and I will jump in and try to explain WHY it is, and then I realise WHY is often irrelevant and I only sound silly trying to make excuses. It's that almost mothering instinct creeping in, wanting to defend the one you love. (Except with the children it would be a lot stronger.)

Easy. Don't do it. 'Enhancement' is Cheating. If Big Names cheat, then honest people should report them, or be tarred with the same brush.

Easier said than done. :rolleyes:
Judges should 'excuse' the made up dogs from exhibition. Or perhaps the KC should have more coat testing of all breeds.
Although some products that are used by some exhibitors are less obvious than others.
Although I've seen plenty that are very obviously made up.

The worst product that I've used is chalk on the dogs face and legs when trying to clean/dry the white markings.
BUT it is all brushed off/washed off when the feet/legs are dry and clean before my dogs are exhibited.

I've often been told that I am putting myself at an unfair disadvantage by not 'enhancing' but to be frank
if the dog can only win because of make-up as the judge can't see it's merits without, well the win ain't worth it.
But that's always been my own personal opinion.

If I'm as bad as the people that do enhance their dogs with make up because I don't report the 'cheats' so be it.

Thanks everyone,

I think I will try to not use make up. It's going to be hard because the owner of the pups dam is there to give me guidence and I will feel a little rotten saying no make up. By the way as it is my 1st champ show and I am still very "green" someone else has volenteered to handle my baby.

Just so you know also, the grey hairs an one side of her mask are not a fault so I will not be trying to "hide" them - they are similar to "Snog in the Fogs" if anyone in boxers know what I on about (wonder what the owner of him does with him regarding make up?)

Anyone else know where I can get one of those number clips at short notice?

Can any boxer showers give me an ideal length for a snake chain for an adult bitch (I am showing one of my others on the month nights for practice as well as my baby) ? And do any of you use a leather slip lead instead of a show chain with lead?
Thanks again,
x

Have sent you a link  in a pm,  where you can order your chains from.

go for around the 26  lenght,  the HEXAGONS  ones are best.  go for the fine one.

Also as you are meeting your breeder I would just let her advice you on the day,  it will make your first champ  show less stressful, if she says chalk then go with it, you can always decide for your self later on.  

What is your girls Affix  ,   you can PM me with it if you like, just being nosey.

If you can't find a show clip in time, just use a safety pin and buy some clips next time you're at a show. :)

try these http://www.petcetera.co.uk

>My pup has a white flash on her face but on one side is a mixture of white and black hairs and I've been told that we can white it up

Now I have another solution for these black hairs that you have been told you can make white......Remove them!!! :D  Honestly.  (very carefully) the day before any show just get a pair of scissors and cut the black ones off!  Perfect AND withing KC regulations.

Personally I would put anything into a dog that could show up in a test :)  I find a product called 'show off' which is a dry shampoo great for cleaning up white and making it look bright :)

Black pigment....Well if your dogs not got it in the first place....

For the ring clip you can get them at most shows, online, from your breed club, but if you can't get one in time then a safty pin will do :)

Now I have another solution for these black hairs that you have been told you can make white......Remove them!!!   Honestly.  (very carefully) the day before any show just get a pair of scissors and cut the black ones off!  Perfect AND withing KC regulations.
I wouldn't be able to do that, I'd feel far too mean and it's like a roan patch about the size of a 10p. I've decided that I will leave it like that - there are a couple of champs in boxers that are the same.

Black pigment....Well if your dogs not got it in the first place....
Think I may not have explained it well enough in my OP - some boxer people black up black bits just to make them blacker - not to hide pigment that wasn't there in the 1st place.
My dilemma was do I do it or not and what about this roan bit? Does it stay roan or get whited or blacked out.

Think I'll leave it roan.

Thanks for the link for the chain.
I will use a safety pin for my number and will buy a no. holder at crufts.

this is an interesting one....almost ALL breeds have their appearance 'enhanced' one way or another - after all a trimmed poodle is not exactly appearing in the ring au naturel !- personally I do use products to ensure that my dogs coats are presented in the best possible way - and to give them a chance of winning ...a dog with a beautifully presented 'full' coat ( and it is often the product that can give the appearance of fullness particularly when a dog may be a little out of coat) will almost always win over one that has not been fully prepared ...just look at the presentation of the top winners and you will see what I mean ! ...the bottom line is that this is a beauty show and personally I see nothing wrong in enhancing a dogs natural qualities with a little 'kennel club water' LOL :D

Yvonne

Ahh!!

But when you don't use anything which is left in the coat and still win you know you've got something good and the pleasure's enhanced by the knowledge that it's not down to the 'makeup' :D :D :D 

Not all of the winners of top awards have coat preparations in their coats despite many in their breed being prepared in this manner ;)