WhicH do you prefer? what do you think shows the Boxer off to its best? And do you free stand when presenting to the judge, even though the rest may be stacking/ baiting? Interested on you opnion / thoughts please

Having a breed which is always shown free-standing and never stacked, I would have to say free-standing. From an outsider's point of view, it seems to be the norm for boxer exhibitors to over-extend their dogs when stacking them; this can be the only reason why this breed, and only this one, need little mats for the hind feet to stop them slipping. It does, from an outsider's view, appear very silly ...

And baiting is fine as long as it only goes from handler's hand to dog's mouth! Throwing it about is always wrong, and unfortunately boxer handlers have a terrible reputation for leaving bait all over the floor of the ring, making later exhibitors have a terrible time trying to keep their dogs from hoovering the ground.

Actually there are other breeds that now use the little mats to stop them slipping!
Seen plenty at LKA and other shows now..tacky paw doesn't tend to work.
Mine tend to slip on non-matted shiny sports hall floors (and other breeds too) and
the carpet that they have at LKA, Crufts and the like.
Once a dog looses it's confidence as it's sliding all over the place it won't stand properly.
No matter if it's not over stretched or over stratched. Paw wax doesn't seem to help either neither does
fizzy sugary drinks!
Why should I disadvantage my dog when others have mats and their dogs aren't slipping?
So I've joined the 'prayer mat' brigade and do have mats if I need them. Bad, Bad Boxer owner/Exhibitor that I am :D

Yes it's very easy to 'bash' the Boxer exhibitor, although I agree some of them don't do
the rest of us ethical Boxer handlers much favours.
Although I've had plenty of other rings where my dogs (which are baited but not constantly fed) have dived for bait
after another breed has been in before us. This is at both Ch and open show levels.

I tend to try and use bait which doesn't crumble -and if I've dropped a piece of bait I always pick
it up. I don't throw bait though. It's just being curteous to all exhibitors that are in your ring after you.

I don't mind either stacked or free standing. It's good if you've trained for both.
Oh and shock horror yes I've sometimes over stretched my Boxers...some days the handler has an off day;)

Actually there are other breeds that now use the little mats to stop them slipping!
Seen plenty at LKA and other shows now..tacky paw doesn't tend to work.
Mine tend to slip on non-matted shiny sports hall floors (and other breeds too) and
the carpet that they have at LKA, Crufts and the like.
Once a dog looses it's confidence as it's sliding all over the place it won't stand properly.
No matter if it's not over stretched or over stratched. Paw wax doesn't seem to help either neither does
fizzy sugary drinks!
Why should I disadvantage my dog when others have mats and their dogs aren't slipping?
So I've joined the 'prayer mat' brigade and do have mats if I need them. Bad, Bad Boxer owner/Exhibitor that I am

Yes it's very easy to 'bash' the Boxer exhibitor, although I agree some of them don't do
the rest of us ethical Boxer handlers much favours.
Although I've had plenty of other rings where my dogs (which are baited but not constantly fed) have dived for bait
after another breed has been in before us. This is at both Ch and open show levels.

I have to agree with you kirstine..my girl was baited but if she was on form would free stand..now one of my puppy owners stacks her and in my opinion over stretches her neck

where do you get the rubber mats from ?  I usually carry a water spray which usually works, and if not I use Alfs slobber cloth - usually on dry grass in the summer   thing is I dont think its the done thing in our breed, so might get penalised for it.

We have that problem too with dry grass :D

The rubber anti slip mats you can get alsorts of places now.
Pound shop do some pastel coloured anti slip stuff.
B&Q and other DIY stors do it in white/black/dark blue or dark green.

It's the same stuff you can use for tables etc.
So it's also ace for using it for young pups when people train to stack etc
on tables/kitchen surfaces.

If you are at Chesham DCS at Slough this weekend come and find me and I'll show you
what you are looking for :)
Boxers are first in the ring...and I think we *may* be outside if we are lucky!

Im at Manchester this weekend so wont be doing slough, thanks though I will have a look.

The rubber mats are the stuff that stops things slipping in the boot of the car :)

It seems strange that dalmatians don't have the problem with the Crufts/LKA carpets, yet they're a freestanding breed.

I'd rather have a mat & my dog looking at their best advantage.
Than no mat freestood/stacked and not looking their best because they aren't
stood correctly as they are slipping on carpet or slippery sport floors.

Dalmatians seem to be lighter on their feet/paws.
So perhaps that's why they don't slip?
However will have to ask a friend that shows Dalmatians and see what their comments are :)

>will have to ask a friend that shows Dalmatians and see what their comments are

;) :D

Perhaps boxers have more hind angulation than dals? The ideal dal angulation is to have the hock-to-foot vertical and the toes directly below the rearmost point of the body.

I dont overstretch my boy but he does tend to slip on carpet and dry grass which means he constantly fidgets which is a complete nightmare :rolleyes:

Stacking.....but stacking without legs being out as far (or futher) as they can go! :)  No bait is really needed and does not need to be thrown across the ring! 

From an ex boxer handler but a setter girl at heart (I do prefer stacking as will also be seen in the handling of my aussies :) )

Again from a free standing breed, and fidgets at that I think stacking makes a dog looks s static and artificial taking away that essential  alertness.

Also from a free standing breed - I prefer either free standing, or stacked but NOT overstretched. I think fiddling around artificially with the dog does spoil that alertness. Even in Cavaliers I am seeing more and more people stringing their dogs up on the move, instead of moving them on a loose lead. Mind you, my Yankee is a stacked breed, but again I think they are happier standing stretched just slightly, not so much that there is a straight line from withers to hocks!

Not a great deal of experience here I'm afraid, but, having shown both ways, & observed(not alot as yet! ;) ) I much prefer to free stand a dog, it looks much nicer, more natural, and when you can get them to stand still and for the handler, must be more comfortable.
I always think it looks so awkward with some people, hunched over a dog, holding its tail out or those that get down on the floor and then struggle to get back up again :rolleyes:
And definitely free standing after moving them for the judge otherwise it looks like the flow of movement is interrupted.

As I said, not alot of experience, just my view, but I've not actually watched Boxers :)

My breed is shown either way. Personally I show each dog differently, it all depens what suits the particular dog best.
In answer to the O.P. I'd say, look at your dog, take help from someone you trust, make out what makes the most out of your dog, and train from there. As said above, it's nicer to free stand straight after moving your dog for the judge, so it's good to train for that anyhow.
Even if free standing looks best, and keeps the alertness in the dog better,in my opinion, not all dogs are good enough to look their best in the free stand. If the dog I show needs more handling to look it's best, I will move feet, stretch necks, bait and whatever it takes to help my dog get as good a place as it can get :p  Something I'd never do though, is throw bait arond the ring, double handle or try to disturb anyone in the ring! If the winning isn't done with fair methods, it's not worth much to me

From the point of view of someone who knows absolutely nothing at all about showing and isn't even really sure what stacking means (but presume it means when the dog is stood with it's back legs stretched out and the handler is holding out the tail and raising the dog's head up) I think that position looks totally unnatural and over emphasises the shape of the dog.
From an uninformed spectator's point of view it makes me think that the dog needs help to achieve this stance so cannot be a natural position and therefore does not reflect the true shape of the dog.
As I say I haven't a clue about showing and definitely don't mean to cause offence so hope none is taken. :)

Free standing a Boxer takes a very experienced handler, but those that do it do it well, nothing like seeing a Boxer free standing, in the ring.  I stacked my girl also used the silly little mat, to stop her sliipping, but I  did not bait her, used a sqweeky instead,  only as she did not bait for food.

What ever you decide good luck.

if any dog NEEDS a mat to stand up,surely its time to change they way they are stood? Surely ANy breed of dog MUST be able to stand without a aid of a matt?

any dog NEEDS a mat to stand up,surely its time to change they way they are stood? Surely ANy breed of dog MUST be able to stand without a aid of a matt

If you have ever watched a Boxer standing alert on his own,  you will see he stands with an angulation  to his back legs, they will naturally stretch out behind him, with a slight slope to his back.   that is what we want to achieve in the ring a natural alert stance, which you will see if they free stand,   as the floor covering at most shows can be slippey ,  we use the mat to give th dog a good foothold, not to make him stretch out as far as his hind legs will go,  the last thing you want is for a dog to loose confidence in the ring because he  cant get a good foothold.

Yes you will see some over stretched dog,  some under stretched too,  it is all down to hiding faults   to short in back not enough lenght of leg so on and so on,   but all breeds have  their little tricks to hide faults

Why don't GSD's have the mats then?  Sorry I think Boxers and I've also seen Bassett's look daft with those mats.
As a person with another breed that can be stacked or freestand I prefer freestanding my dogs although I have some that prefer to be stacked and vice versa.

I think we are going of topic here,   GSD  only have one leg back so I would assume they can still get a better grip,

Why is it such a problem  , with Boxers owners using mats,  it does not interfere with anyone else`s breed.

but it seems to be a  problem to some, as it was brought up, not in answer to the  original  queastion

:D
My Boxers can pose a great GSD show stance and not need a mat too :D
But unfortunately that's not what the judge wants to see :) ;)

I can free stand my bitch's but to be honest most times they look their best stacked.
They tend to show better outside as there's lots to look at and they don't tend to slip
on the tarmac car parks that are used for the rings :)

Most GSP's are stacked. I "walk" my dog into his stack which means I don't really have to move his legs much. However, I was gutted I did not have a mat to stand him on at LKA. He lost his confidence completely because he could not stand on the slippery surface well. I borowed a mat for the stakes classes and he was a different dog!! I don't over extend him at the back and will be buying my own mat for Crufts to ensure I give the best possible chance to show as well as he can.

Most GSP's are stacked. I "walk" my dog into his stack which means I don't really have to move his legs much. However, I was gutted I did not have a mat to stand him on at LKA. He lost his confidence completely because he could not stand on the slippery surface well. I borowed a mat for the stakes classes and he was a different dog!! I don't over extend him at the back and will be buying my own mat for Crufts to ensure I give the best possible chance to show as well as he can

Good luck to you, at crufts.   you can sometimes buy the matting in rolls at "Dunelm"

I'm sorry I just feel that if a dog can't stand without slipping then there's something wrong with that dog\breed?  I my be wrong but it's only something that's been happening for about the last 10 years mainly with Boxers although other breeds are now slowly bringing it in. 

I would hate the day when someone in my breed started bringing a mat in for it to stand.  But these of course are just  my own personal feelings. 

I think the other problem why people may bring it up with Boxers is because of the way that some people bait them too!  I have been hit a few times over the years by flying liver when I've been in a ring next to a Boxer ring :d

Hi,
I've already given my answer to the op's question. Since then, I've followed this thread with great interest, since the "mat or no mat" debate is totally new to me. I've never ever seen anyone bring a mat in the ring for the dog to stand on. So now I must ask, only to satisfy my curiosity, how big is this mat? And what do you do with it, when asked to move your dog? Do you first bend down and pick the mat up, before you start to run? Or is it left behind? If it's picked up, where do you keep it when it's not in use? Is it small enough to go in a trouser pocket?

Don't take offence, if you use a mat. I have no opinion on this at all. As I live in Sweden, and show here and in other FCI countries nearby, we have other regulations. We're not allowed to do anything that will better our dog's chances, like using sticky drinks on feet, for example. So I think mats are out of the question as well ;-) 

I know all about slippery floors and the difficulties for the dogs to stand on them, the winter is long here, and the outdoor season short :-(  We have tiles on the floors in some of the rooms in our house. I make a point of sometimes train the stand on those, for my dogs to be accustomed to how it feels when the feet slide away under them, in the stand. This way they are not discouraged, if it happens at a show, they know they have to compensate for the poor friction of the floor, by adjusting themselfves and their balance a bit.

I hope someone who's not taken this the wrong way, will anwer my questions, as I'd really like to know :p
Karen

No offense taken :)

My mat's are bigger than a beer mat (the old fashioned towelling oblong type)
but smaller than a hand towel.
Just basically wide enough for both my dogs rear feet to stand on the mat.
I have measured one that is in my show bag - it's just under a foot (30.5cms/12 inches) by 2 foot (61 cms/24 inches).
It doesn't need to be 2ft though, I reckon that 1.5ft (46cms/18inches) would be plenty.
The stuff I have is 3mm thick but I've seen thinner.

I pick the mat up,fold it in the same way I would the beer mat (which I use as a face cloth for my boxers) and it gets stuffed
round the bait bag waist straps.

I don't have tiles here at home so can't train the same way you can.
I think to be honest that's why I probably prefer the outdoor shows, no slipping
well unless the grass is really dry if we are on grass :D

Thank you for telling me. I had a vision of mats in a rather stiff material (someone mentioned car boots) I imagined handlers with mats in right hand, while running round the ring at high speed, maybe ten or fifteen at a time :D  Many breeds bring little brushes or "drooling hankies" into the ring, so I suppose this is something not much different, then.

As I handler the practical aspect of things always interest me. So I suppose when you anticipate the judge will ask the class to move, you will remove the mat while he's looking at the dogs further down the line. But what about when you've moved your dog away and towars the judge? Do you use the mat or just stand your dog in a flowing movement, as usual?
I think if mats were allowed here, some would start using them, and others would follow. If they were accepted in a breed, and some dogs were having an advantage, more would follow if the judges didn't penalize dogs that were stood on them. "If you can't beat them, join them" :p
Thanks again for explaining,
Karen :-)

This subject is intriguing me....

To the people that use mats - do you use these mats when the judge is going over your dog?   If so, has any judge ever said anything?  If you don't use them when the judge is going over the dog, what makes the difference in them not slipping then and slipping when they're in the line?

Debs

I use the mat at both times, when stood for the judge to go over the dog
and in the line. This is if there is no matting in the rings at all.
Sometimes shows have matting for the stand part but not around the ring edging.
In this case I would just use the mat at the ring edging.
At no time has any judges ever commented on the use of mat.

When I was showing boxers (my first breed when I started showing) They never needed a mat.  They would stand fine on most types of flooring.  When we had to stand on a slippery floor I would put my foot behind their back legs to stop them going backwards.

My setters don't have problems slipping.  If they do, again my leg goes behind the back legs however most times they slide is when I have slightly overstreched them so is handlers fault :) 

I saw those mats at LKA with Dobes ... had never seen anything like it before - they looked really silly ..... we thopught they were teatowels initially and I ended up having to ask .... I don't understand why all of a sudden a breed is unable to stand properly even on a slippery surface however I didn't find the floor at LKA slippery - my Mals managed fine as did most breeds - I onlt saw Dobes on mats and it was the first time I had ever seen it ......

Surely retraining or standing in a more appropriate position would be better - it can't be comfortable for the dog if it is standing so insecurely????

>Surely retraining or standing in a more appropriate position would be better - it can't be comfortable for the dog if it is standing so insecurely????

Sometimes I wonder if the dogs now stand like this due to breeding :( 

I was at M/Chester show on friday and i only saw three breeders in the ring showing their delightful boxers using mats..not all boxer exhibiters uses mats.