Hi im hopeing someone can give me advice on my 6month old tyme bulldog,he started scratching his neck and armpits a while ago then noticed little red lumps  on his belly, armpits, chest, forearms,and he started nibbling himself like crazy I took him to vets who said foxmites and treated him and my other 2 dogs with stronghold for 4weeks,still he got no better and my other dogs are fine so back to vets this time he said demodectic mange and treated him with dips,still he got worse and cut all his face with scratching and had many bad sore spots he even had a bad smell comeing from him numerous times I was back to the vet I even suggested could it be an allergy???my vet said because of his age he doubts it and continued treating him with the dips even though I stressed they seem to make him worse,my last visit to the vet he has given him antibiotics to clear the cuts and has suggested further investigations because he said if it was demodectic mange it should have improved by nowhe also noted that I had spent a small fortune and told me to expect another high bill,:rolleyes:the antibiotics are healing his cuts up a treat but the anti itch injection has worn off now so hes scratching himself sore again ,even putting t-shirts on himand physically stopping him from scratching is not doing the trick ,I now have many cuts myself from trying to stop him ,can anyone advise me please on what it could be and if there are any home remedys to ease the itching?I would be so greatfull.

>vet he has given him antibiotics to clear the cuts and has suggested further investigations<

With the most common cause of itching (parasites) ruled out, I expect your vet may now be starting to think along the more unusual allergy route - I think that's what "further investigations" would refer to.

>and told me to expect another high bill<

Unfortunately, diagnosing and treating skin problems/allergies can be expensive, but as your dog is really uncomfortable, it is imperative to find the cause.

One way to help yourself would be to think very hard about what might have changed in his life when the scratching started: the place where you walk, where you live, what bedding material he sleeps on, which rooms he has access to, food etc. - there may not be anything but you are best placed to know if there is. 

The anti-itch injection is usually steroids and sometimes tablets are also given for short-term use.  Not popular I know, but if things are really bad, the benefit may outweigh possible risks.

Best wishes, I hope the poor lad feels better soon.

My Curly was like this back and fore to the vet,more or less weekly for about 2 months at the time my pup was 8 months,first of all I was told fox mites even though skin scrapings were clear ,he gave me numerous products none of which worked,then one day was looking on the web  and came accross Burns dog food and put him on that within 10 days I couls see an improvement in his skin and his stools were hard for the first time,the only problem with the Burns was that it kept him thin,he now has a raw food diet and I have never looked back,I think the vet would still have been taking money off me now ,Travis has not seen a vet since and he is 2 in April ,I do everything natural now and have no problems at all

Oh poor little chap :(

It sounds like an allergy to me too and it's probably worth changing his diet, I'm surprised the vet hasn't already suggested this.

I think a raw diet would probably help him!

Maria :)

Curly, as dogs can't tell us what's wrong with them, the vet has to start with the most likely diagnosis and work from there.  It is only by finding that the anti-mite stuff doesn't work that you can eliminate the most likely of all the causes and then and only then, will you start the expensive process of investigating further.

If you hear hoofbeats, look for horses not zebras.

Thank you all so much for your replys,I think the next step is skin scrapes his eyes are a little gungy as well and third eyelids across so I know he is feeling really poorly bless him,I have already been through have I changed anything in the household since I had him that could contribute and have to say the only thing I have changed is his diet,he was on Autarky when I got him from breeder but after 3weeks changed to pedigree chum puppy(gradually)because I could not find Autarky anywhere by me but the skin problems have only been there the past few months so could it be diet??I really cant do the raw meat diet I have owned dogs for a long time and have always used dry food and touch wood have had no problems apart from a very fussy staffi(lol)that keeps me on my toes,and now my poor pup the one good thing is hes not off his food and is putting his weight on nicely and in himself is still as playfull as ever,obviously I will continue to go to and from vets  just wish I could find a miracle to ease him ,I have now found a website that sell and deleiver Autarky so have put an order in to see if this may help.thank-you again and fingers crossed.

Hi, I would as previously suggested consider a change in diet and try him on BARF. My mate has an English Bull and he to suffered from really bad skin and itching and was also on pedigree muck, after endless jabs and pills and powders and hundreds of pounds vets bills he changed him on to raw, not an overnight cure by any means but he is now after a month and a half a whole lot better.
Take a look at this video, although it is American the major commercial dog food makers are reprisented in the video!!

http://www.salesautomator.com/app/adtrack.asp?AdID=276124

Lillith as you say a vet has to start somewhere,but when no mites show up on more than one scraping, why do they still insist on giving you treatment for something that is not there

You can get Autarky in Tesco now

I had exactly the same with my JRT as a pup and he was treated for the same yours has been with no improvement.
Luckily quite a few years ago I done a course and final exam on Dog and Cat nutrition and immeadiatly put him on a wheat/gluten free complete diet.
It stopped the itching and he has been fine since, unless someone gives him a treat or he grabs something he shouldn't have.
I would guess your dog could well have the same thing and before spending anymore money at the vets I would try change of diet.  Also if you use shake and vac or any air freshners etc stop as they can cause the same problem.

Also what is his bedding washed with? The biological washing products can cause itchiness.

Mites rarely show up in skin scrapings but you can have blood tests done to confirm if the dog has been exposed to them.  In my experience one months stronghold won't kill them all as new ones are hatching all the time, it has to be ongoing.  One treatment I did find particularly useful is advocate.  It works in a slightly different way to the other treatments, but you have to stick with the full three month course.

I use plug in airfreshners circle air ,can they effect him?and Curly your a star I will check out Tescos I tryed some months back but they never did it then.I really think foxmites are not there as my other dogs would have them as they are all walked at same place and I do use non bio washing powder as my children have sensitive skin and the demodex mite I have heard can be hereditary but his mum and dad have had no problems,I have noticed if Ive had my heating on all day he seems worse and especially at night.I mentioned earlier his eyes were gungy and he had finished his delvoprim antibiotics well his one eye is worse than the other and very swollen now Ive just bathed it with warm water ,when I was last up vets I mentioned his eye s but he just said it could be a reaction from dip or there inflamed from the scratching,sorry to go on but im finding it a releif being able to find you people that I can tel my concerns to,if his eye is still inflamed tomm im off to vet again:rolleyes:

Yes plug in air freshners can affect him, and the gunky eye you mention makes me think allergy to something even more.  Try bathing it in cold tea 3 -4 times a day.   What are you feeding?  Is there anything new in the house, garden or on walks or that you are using anywhere that he is coming into contact with that could be affecting him?

Bevb I use pedigree chum puppy food but I want to put him back on Autarky,and I mop my floors with zoflora disenfectant but always have since I got him I have stopped useing the zoflora to see if this made a difference but unfortunately it never and I did mention to my vet that my garden has recently been very muddy with all the rain and this was about the same time his skin began being sore and itchy but my vet said dogs do not become allergic to mud they can roll around in it quite happily!!I will try leaving the plug ins off for a few weeks and stop useing the disenfectant can you give me a tip on what to use to clean the floor that smells nice that hopefully wont effect his skin im terrified now to use anything which may make him worse ,also as a treat from time to time I give him carrot or a peice of apple but this is not all the time.Thanks for the tip about cold tea my mom swears by this when her cats have had sore eyes but I never tryed it incase it made them worse but wil def give it a go,as you can see its 5 in the morn and I havnt been to bed yet as hes really making himself sore Ive just put a damp cold teatowel on his chest cus its so hot and sore and Ive been trying to stop him nibbling his toes red raw I cant wait for the vets to open,am just stressed it will only be a tempory solution and I could be making it worse without realiseing it even though I have racked my brains to think what it could be.

I would definatly immeadiatly get him off the pedigree chum and try something wheat/gluten free like PAH own or Wainwrights.
If you really want to cut out most things then go for Wafcol Salmon and Potatoe.  You can then once back to basic like that if you notice after 6-8 weeks the itching is much improved ( it does take that long to often see the improvement, sometimes its quicker).  You can then try to slowly add one at a time other things to slowly find the cause or causes of the problem.
You do have to be strict though and give no other treats (use the food as treats) or scraps of any kind otherwise you are undoing any good you might have done and be back to square one again.
I do know immeadiatly when my JRT has pinched something he shouldn't have, like a crust of bread out on a walk as he will be scratching all evening and night.
Dogs can be allergic to all sorts, although wheat/gluten is the main culprit, so avoiding anything that has cereals in its ingredients can often do the trick with a food intolerance, but some dogs are more complex than that and there are quite a few that are even intolerant to chicken.
It really is trial and error and taking everything you think it could be out and once settled introduce things one at a time very slowly giving at least a week to see if they react.

I have now been up vets  and am very concerned with all thats happened since I last posted,my pup took a bad turn for the worse his eye was swollen to the extent his head just above his eye looked as if he had banged it and a patch of skin was so red raw the worst I had seen when I got to vets he tryed to look in his eye but was nearly bitten,my vet said its because its so painful to touch and explained he wants to do a biopsy and skin scrapes of the sore skin but with his eye being so bad he needs to treat him first which he has done with steroids and anti biotics,the course of treatment will last 3 weeks then he must go back to be put under for the biopsy and scrapes,I am very concerned though because my vet said he may still not be able to get to the bottom of his problem ,so why do the investigations .I have now put him onto the gluten/wheat free Autarky and stopped the use of airfreshners andcleaning products but cannot see no change as he is on his medication ,but have noticed his chin still looks red and the swelling above his eye has not gone completely he has now perked up in himself which is good news because when he took a turn for the worse he was not his usual happy self and I am still constantly worrying about him and the thought of leaving him up the vets to go under anasthetic is weighing heavy on my mind as he is a very snuffly breather and is constantly by my side.

Please bear in mind that i'm no expert on this,but it sounds as iff your baby has had a violent reaction to something.Has your vet talked about doing allergy tests?If he cant get to the bottom of the problem then i would seek out a second/third opinion.Perhaps look into seeing a holistic vet,who will will treat the whole of your dog,instead of just the symptom with antibiotics etc.Usually in these cases the immune system is down,and a holistic vet will work with you to get it back up to full strength.Many drugs will also weigh heavily on the I.S making it even more prone to breakdown,which will begin a vicious circle.
Many people see both convential and holistic vets,both ways can work well in conjunction with one another.

Fingers and paws crossed on a speedy recovery for your wee one :)

I agree with Ktee on this, it does sound as though he has had a violent reaction to something.   I'd definitley seek a second opinion too, sooner rather than later - before your vet does the biopsy!

Just as a matter of interest, did he have any vaccinations shortly before you noticed he was itchy?

Good luck and please keep us posted with how he gets on.
Maria :)

I'm so sorry to hear about your pup's condition. It sounds as though your vet's treating him conservatively rather than aggressively (going for barrages of expensive tests - do you have him insured?) which is generally the safest route to take. You ask why do investigatons if a definitive answer might not be clear at the end; I'm afraid the cause for very many conditions is never found no matter how many tests are done so your vet isn't giving you false expectations. However very often a cause is found, so investigations are always worth a try, rather than just treating the symptoms. A biopsy and skin scrapes are the first port of call with skin problems. If they don't show anything positive then allergy tests might be indicated.

If he's happier in himself and his eye is slowly clearing then some part of the treatment is certainly working, whether it's the change of diet, your change of use of cleaning products, or the medication. Hopefully he'll continue to make progress and you'll be able to find a cause. Discovering allergens is a time-consuming process, so don't be surprised if his treatment is lengthy. Good luck! :)

unfortunately he is not insured and my money for vet fees is running out!!!this is my own fault I know,yes this all did start after his injections but not straight after my vet also charges by size of dog so the prices will get worse as hes going to be a big lad,I would go to see a different vets but ive got transport diffficutys at the moment and this vet is the nearest,so again my fault thank you all for your kind advice,he has just been itching and ive got the heating on whenever I have the heating on he itchs.

As you have mentioned the heating, perhaps he's skin is just drying out with the central heating. I know it's been  happening to me since the heating has been on, especially in the evenings.
Perhaps keep him in a cooler part of the house. Is there a moisturiser for dogs skin I wonder. A dry skin can drive you nuts. Just a thought!

Giving him fish oil and vitE couldnt hurt whilst you're trying to find out what the problem is,both are good for skin,and the fish oil may help with his immune system.

The dosage of fish oil for dogs is
1000 mg per 30 lbs of healthy dog,
1000 mg per 20 lbs of itchy/flaky dog,
1000 mg per 10 lbs of chronically ill dog,
and vitE is 100iu per 25lb dog.

Unless you're money really is running out ... :-( then it might sting a bit!

Hi
i have a itchy 15 month border collie
started itching nov when the heating came on and  about the time he was weaned onto adult food (1/2 tin and dry mix)
He itches mainly at night ariound his stomach and in between his rear legs its very red with raised bumps
visted vet who game him an anti inflamitary injection and stronghold flea treatment (had been treated 3 monthly doses of bob martin spot on)
He loves to lie on the tiles or by the front door (cool places)
the vet said if he doesnt improve (2-3 days) should go back and they'll do a blood test for allergies
time now to go back
after reading this post seems that there could be so many reasons- luckily he is insured so i feel i should let the vet investigate futher
Helen

Helen what brand food are you feeding?

Hi Ktee
itching eased up a lot and redness gone down
been keeping the heating down low
food is bakers dry with 1/2 can bakers
also stopped all biscuits and mixers
was given him 1 tespoon cod liver oil for dogs which really didnt do anything except MAYBE contribute to it all??? stopped the cod liver oil now for a week
do not particullary want to change his food as his poo is nice and solid (when seeing many dogs over the park many poo is liquid-i think they definately need advice on food!!!)
i had a lab/gs cross for 16 years feed on pedigree chum and dog biscuits/mixers :rolleyes:never any ill health and never any teeth problems
she still had a great coat of fur and good heathy teeth when she was pts due to incontinence and arthritis
i think i will keep my dog cool as much as possible and continue to watch his itching and skin

AHA!  BAKERS!!! I've read LOADS of posts written by people whose dogs had bad reactions to BAKERS food!!!!
Try BUTCHERS...
Good luck

>... reactions to BAKERS food!!!!
>Try BUTCHERS...

Anyone else thinking candlestick makers now, or is it just me?

M.

No, not just you! :)

:D

my BC eats 1/2 tin butchers and bakers dry chicken and veg mixed in
Another possibility is i found some black crawlies in the bakers-sent them to Purina who identified them as BISCUIT BEETLES will go back to the vet to see if they think this has been the problem
Helen

Helen I can`t beleive the similarities with our dogs,mine has nearly ran out of the prednicare tabs and low and behold the itching is beginning again I have put him on selenium ace tabs and zinc and have been mixing sardines in oil in his food hes due up vets next week and they have said they will do the skin scrapes but will have to sedate him?is this right because years ago my staffie had 2 skinscrapes off her head and they never gave her anything His third eyelids are still across and very red but I have been putting false tears in and it seems to have reduced the bulgeing in his right eye,his right eye only protruded after useing the aludex dips and is not 100% how it should be now .The money I put aside for vet bills has ran out but I wil continue to pay the vets for any treatment he gives as I just want my pup to have some releif from his condition .

Skin scrapes would only be done under sedation if the animal had to be sedated anyway - it's a very quick procedure which should be no more than uncomfortable, so the sedation risk would be too high. Good luck in finding a reason for your poor dog's discomfort.

>mine has nearly ran out of the prednicare tabs and low and behold the itching is beginning again I have put him on selenium ace tabs and zinc and have been mixing sardines in oil in his food

The pred will only cover up the problem,not cure it,and no amount of supplements in the world are going to negate the negative impact such an awful food as Bakers is doing to your dogs health....

Bakers is chock full of colours,flavours,preservatives,cereals and not much else. I would expect the healthiest dog in the world to go down hill if fed on that food.It is one of the worst available in the UK at the moment IMHO :(

Ingredients for Bakers:

[i[Cereals, Meat and animal derivatives (minimum 4% fresh meat in the soft moist kernel), Vegetable protein extracts, Derivatives of vegetable origin (1.1% charcoal in the dark brown heart shaped kernel), Oils and fats, Various sugars, Minerals, Yeasts, Vegetables (minimum 4% vegetables in the green kernel). Contains EC permitted colourants, antioxidants and preservatives

There is not ONE healthy ingredient to be seen in this food,plus it only has 10% fat which is enough to make me wanna itch! 4% meat 4% vegetable   both of which would be of the lowest quality,and the rest of the food is Sugars,and various types :rolleyes: yeast which is a high allergen ingredient and colours and loads and loads of preservatives to keep the pretty colours fresh! Hopefully by getting your dog off of this food ASAP,and i mean quick,by the sounds of your dog, you are going to save yourself alot of money in vet bills and start getting your dog on the road to recovery,it could be a s simple as that :) It may take 6-8 weeks to see a positive change,or as little as 1,but i am willing to bet almost anything your dog will improve once he's on a good food.

Here is an ingredient list to IMO a healthy complete food:

Chicken Meal, Fresh Chicken, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and rosemary extract), Low Ash Salmon Meal, Potatoes, Sardine/Mackerel/Anchovy/Tuna Oils (preserved with mixed tocopherols and rosemary extract) Eggs, Dried Chicken Liver, Dried Whole Milk, Dried Whey Extract, Kelp, Alfalfa Leaf, Casein, DL ï¿¿ Methionine, Potassium Chloride, Lecithin, Taurine, Lysine, Carnitine, Choline Chloride, Creatine, Probiotics: (Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Bifidobacterium Thermophilum Fermentation, Bifidobacterium Longum Fermentation Product, Enterbacter Faecium Fermentaion Product, Bacillus Subtillus Fermentation Product, Blueberries, Cranberries, Mixed Tocopherols (a source of vitamin E), Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Thiamine, Niacin, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Iodine Proteinate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Biotin, Folic Acid, Pyridoxine (a source of vitamin B6), Cobalt Proteinate, Papain, Yucca Schidigera Extract. 18% fat.

http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/dogs/dry_dog_food/timberwolf/14832

More easily accesible foods you could try would be-

Arden Grange http://www.ardengrange.com

JWB http://www.wellbeloved.co.uk

Berrimans http://www.berrimans.net

Wafcol http://www.wafcol.co.uk

I'm sure you will get nice solid poo's on all or one of these foods ;)

So pleased you are seeing some improvement Steff
Mel

Ktee you have me mixed up with Helen my dogs are on Autarky which I thought would be ok due to wheat and gluten free and lots of added herbs, im worried to try him on anything else atthe mo ,and thanks mel he is much better than he was ive now finished the detox diet just am concerned he may go back to how he was so am going for the skinscrapes next week,will mention to vet about not sedateing him I was going to take him to be neutered but am waiting awhile untill hes 100% fingers crossed he will get there,and his poos are looking quite nice at the mo if somewhat large(lol)

So pleased Steff

My BC Has got and nearly always had nice solid poo (no problems there!)
The bakers is 23% protien 10% fat 6.5% ash and 3% fibre
He eats this with a 1/2 tin Butchers twice a day
Helen

Hi Steffini
my Bc has not had any prdnicare tabs only an anti imflamitary jab and a course of strong hold
his eyes have been and still r good
just very red and bumpy stomach and between his back legs
Helen

Hi,
I am not a skin specialist, but about 2 years ago one of my dogs had this type of problem, very itchy skin all over his body and it took us a while to determine what it could be.  The Vet was becoming my second home and the medicine was running out and all it was was that the dog was allergic to chicken.  It is still a mistry to us how it all happened as from puppies I always feed dry food (chicken and rice) and the problem showed up  when the dog was about one and a half years.  Then we changed to  Lamb and rice and every thing seem to go back to normal.  So if I were you first I would try to change his diet then start to give him doses of medicine.
Debbie

>the dog was allergic to chicken.  It is still a mistry to us how it all happened as from puppies I always feed dry food (chicken and rice) and the problem showed up  when the dog was about one and a half years.

It has been shown that dogs fed the same protein source for a lengthy time are much more prone to become allergic to that source.For example if  the meat you feed is nothing but chicken, the chances increase greatly that the dog will eventually become allergic to it,much more so than if it was fed a variety of different protein sources. Which is another reason why i always say variety,variety,variety :)

>It has been shown that dogs fed the same protein source for a lengthy time are much more prone to become allergic to that source<

Please could you say who did this research as I would like to read up on it?  Thanks.

I don't know where you read this, I was told this by a good oldfashioned houndman many years ago, when my pup was growing. Later years by an old vet, and a lady who purchased a puppy off a friend said their vet advised the pup ate different types of food because it makes for a better digestive system. They were talking natural food here, not brand names. The old houndman was quite explicit with his thoughts of processed food........;)
If these old boys had only put in books what they knew, the book would be priceless! No 'clinical trials' their qualifications were in the results they had with their dogs.

I have heard it said that around 2 years is when allergies can show, this info from a vet, so word of mouth, I have no qualifying info to back this up.

>It has been shown that dogs fed the same protein source for a lengthy time are much more prone to become allergic to that source.

Yes, I was told that by a vet when I was debating over making the switch to raw.

up date on my bc
now a month later rash/redness and bumps all cleared up
a vet suggested he had a allergic reaction to a FLEA BITE
this actually sounds possible to me
after all, for 18 months he has been fed on bakers and butchers