Saw a good friend of mine yesterday who I haven't seen for a long while.

He was not his normally cheery self :( At the weekend he had been bitten very badly on both hands by a one of his friends CS. The wounds were very deep and painful :( The bitch I understand had been very unpredictable and had bitten both the owners before. The attack was totally unprovoked and had really shaken my friend up.

As a result of the attack the bitch was PTS.

The questions I have are :

Do you think this was Cocker Rage ?

Does Cocker Rage happen in all colours ?

Also I think I have read somewhere it is hereditary ? If it is then would it be wise for the owners to contact the breeder to let them know ?

Thanks

Lucy

Try this:

http://www.cockerspanielrage.org.uk/

Thanks will pass this on to him :)

Dr Jean Dodds in the US has linked unpredictability of temperament with hypothyroidism - and dietary issues may play a part as well, perhaps by making a dog irritable through discomfort or the like.  I think owners are often too hasty to pigeonhole a behavioural issue under a particular condition without fully exploring all the possible reasons for it first.

Edit: here's a link, forgot to put it in before.   Been a loooong day!

http://www.itsfortheanimals.com/DODDS-ARONSON.HTM

Its a difficult one isn't it. My neighbours lab went for her on Saturday, he was a rescue as he'd bitten his previous owner.  He's now on a 3 strikes and you're out warning.  However, was that behaviour Lab Rage? 

It's hard to tell but my gut feeling is that you get no more of this unpredictable behaviour in cockers than you get from any other breed.

"3 strikes and you're out"...to where back to rescue and try again with yet another owner?? or......:-(

Just over a year ago i rescued a 7 year old tan cocker from RSPCA
we had it for 7 months before returning him - i was heart broken

He had a few issues but were not told of any when we got him only that the owner had 2 cockers male and female and he wanted to be top and only dog- so they got rid of him

Having owned a rescue dog for 16 years (cross lab/alsatian) i decided to take the plunge again:rolleyes:

Benjy our rescue cocker hated other dogs- he wanted to kill them- (he barked and growled very aggressively towards them)
I thought well i can live with this- i'll just keep him on the lead ALL the time (luckily he was'nt BIG)

then he started to take a sock from my clean washing and guard it under the table (my children 14 and 16 years old were told UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES EVER TO GO UNDER THE TABLE) however you couldnt even walk into that room he would bark and growl aggressively

at Xmas we had a lot of friends over and Benjy took a chicken bone from a plate that someone put on the floor (obviously they haven't a clue about dogs!!) my hubbie went to take the bone and Benjy bit him badly on his hand (hospital tretmant and a tetnus) my hubbie said cause i was so upset Benjy was on borrowed time

a week later i was watching tv when my son went to stroke him and he went berzerk-i grabbed him and he bit my arm- my hubbie then put him in the garden and when he cooled down i took him back to the RSPCA (RIP Bengy)
my arm was purple, he hadn't broken the skin but my arm swelled up 4 times the size and the pain was excruciating(another trip to the hospital for a tetnus, anti imflammitary and antibiotics)

Many people have asked when walking bengy if he was ok as they had heard that cockers of one colour mainly tan ones can have cocker rage syndrome

The RSPCA said when i returned Bengy that he had cocker rage and had to be put down- they also said they had no idea and if there was any slight possibility they would never had homed him with us (i really dont believe them -i think he had problems and issues but until he actually bit someone they would'nt or couldn't do anything)

I now have a Border Collie, 1 year old -BONKERS-(not his name but he is) You can do anything with him go near or IN his bed! touch and take away his food
WHAT A COMPLETE DIFFERENCE as much as i love dogs i will always be wary of any dog after my experience (i'm sure you'll agree)

This sounds more like resource guarding in the extreme than 'rage' TBH.  It's something that can get quite bad but, also, can be dealt with - at the moment I'm slowly working through a similar issue with Soli, she's not allowed on the sofa or my bed and sleeps in the spare room (door shut) as she will go for me and the other dogs if we get too close when she's in those places.  She won't give any warning either.  But she is improving.  She also guards things - not food, luckily, but if she pinches something of mine (gloves especially) she will retaliate if I try to take it off her without a suitably tasty swap.

Just my opinion of course, it's one of those things that would need an experienced professional to get a really good evaluation on.  It does highlight the problems with many rescue centres though - they can evaluate a dog as much as they want, but ultimately they can never wheedle out all the issues until that dog is settled in a home environment.  It's a tricky problem.

Hi jacky jat
Having experienced a cocker whatever???
many people including vets have actually heard of cocker rage syndrome
labs are known as placid loveable dogs like many
however any dog can have a bad temperment
this is something different and anyone not believing cocker rage
i certainly would not want you to experience what i did

Jackyjat has working Cockers and knows alot of people with working Gundogs ;)

I agree and if I had a Lab that had even bitten once I am not sure if I would give the three times and your out :)

I suppose it depends on the circumstances but I would never ever trust the dog again.

Lab Rescue do rehome Labs that have bitten :) As I say it all depends on circumstance and who you rehome to ;)

Lucy
xx

One thing you won't forget about a cocker rage episode is the high pitched screaming and the glazed eyes :( and the total unexpectedness of the attack, and the slight confusion afterwards. 

I knew a cocker with this, never heard of it till then.  Personally I'd have PTS as the dog was so unpredictable, but they kept him until he was 15.   He had the smallest eyes I've ever seen in a cocker, even as a puppy and wasn't typical to look at, nearer in colour to a red setter than the golden he was supposed to be and very narrow.  His owners wanted 'just a pet' so didn't bother researching breeders, they just got the name of a 'breeder' from a vet :rolleyes:   Certainly taught me the value of research.

It's very important to remember that rage syndrome can't be diagnosed by anything other than a full medical, behavioural and neurological assessment. Too often people will say "the dog has rage" when in fact it is responding perfectly predictably eg when resource guarding (which tends to worsen if not worked with).

Resource guarding can be successfully worked with very often - what I'd always say to owners is, don't leave it too late - contact a reputable behaviourist if you aren't sure.

www.apbc.org.uk

Lindsay
x

I agree Lindsay too many people are saying the word rage when all is needed is a behaviourist. If pups of all breeds are brought up wrongly without the understanding of bite inhibition which all pups go through, (and is so easy to irradicate) and resource guarding and it is left unchecked an adult dog will continue these bad behaviours.

Cocker rage certainly does exist and also in other breeds, I once met a man who had had the experience of a Cocker with rage, it was so bad the Cocker even attacked itself constantly, no doubt that this Cocker had rage at all, he went on to buy another Cocker from a recommended breeder. Reputable breeders have worked hard to eradicate this, and most have never even seen it, my mother has had Cockers for 25 years and never once seen rage, the Cocker is still very much touted as the family dog and to be honest I have not heard myself of any rage incidents for many years, people have to be so careful to check the lines of a Cocker and other breeds they are buying from and it should always be a question whether the line has had any rage incidents and the golden rule, if you buy cheap you are not getting the same quality. Buyer beware!! Corners have been cut somewhere, if you buy none KC reg dogs again you have no line to check and also rage incidents can not be reported to sort out that line. As always a good breeder will be able to show you the parents and hopefully other family members whom should always be of good temperament and have testimonials from previous matings.

But, many a badly brought up Cocker is touted as having rage when 9/10 times it is a behavioural problem which can be sorted.

I got my first dog at 11 (x lab/springer called Marmaduke) and he was gorgeous and a complete softy :D :D!  However a couple of years later, my auntie had a cocker (morgan) but when he was 9 months old she approached us to have him as she was heavily pregnant and Morgan was being really possessive of her and would growl if her other children went near her and she was worried about the new baby.  We took Morgan in and it was a nightmare from the start.  He was really agressive towards Marmaduke and given a chance would attack him, drawing blood every time.  Marmaduke was so laid back, he just let him :rolleyes:. We coped by keeping them separated. 

The dogs were never allowed upstairs and one afternoon mum was on her bed and my brother got on the bed to cuddle her when all of a sudden Morgan came from nowhere and lunged at my brother, got hold of his hand and tried to drag him off the bed.  As soon as mum got off the bed, Morgan stopped and we managed to get my brother out of the room and shut the door with a trip to A&E and several stitches.  Unfortunately we felt we had no choice but PTS, he was 2. 

Given the circumstances I don't think we had any other choice. I dont know which breeder she bought him off but I do remember her paying an awful lot of money for him (£400 and that 20 years ago )  Looking back, his behaviour could have been brought about by the way he was treated/trained as a young puppy although even now I am still wary of the breed that is only because of personal experience and nothing more. 
Kerri

It's funny isn't it, being around Cockers both Show and occasionally Working, for the past 25 years since my mother began keeping them, I find it so hard to imagine a Cocker ever biting or being aggressive, to me they are the most placid of breeds the only growl ever heard is from the Alpha bitch keeping the others in order.

Even knowing that Cocker rage is around I find it hard myself to imagine a Cocker being aggressive the breed does not signify that behaviour to me, they are loving and loyal and very tolerant of young children and have always been easily trainable.

Any dog that bit should quite rightly be pts, I would never, ever tolerate it, you did the right thing, whether the Cocker you had, had rage or had an aggression problem we shall never really know I guess either way it was not livable with, if a dog can turn so quickly it is untrustworthy, and no-one should ever live with an untrustworth dog, but when this happens in other breeds it is not called rage is it?  This is the difference, rage is used too often for a Cocker gone bad.

Quick example: Story from my mum! That she had been approached by a neighbour who told my mum she thought her Cocker had rage as he was snapping and growling, my mum said she would have a look at the dog and after examining him she found he had a rotten back tooth which was obviously causing great distress.  A quick visit to the vets tooth out and the Cocker was happy and placid again. But how quick was the lady to blame rage.

But not to take away from those who have in the past had a dog whom suffered from it, it is a terrible, terrible thing, as Lindsay has said neurological tests need to be undertaken to prove this is the case though and not a temperament or behaviour malfunction which all breeds suffer from.  There are bad apples in all breeds.

Sorry you are now fearful of Cockers, they are usually a very gentle and loving breed.

I've met many nasty Cockers in the grooming parlour.  All bad breeding, normally pet bred, regardless of colour. :(

Yes, how many times do you hear people saying they have bought a pup, but it has so many champs in the pedigree???  What they don't tend to see is that the champs go back to the great grandparents and beyond, since then they have been pet to pet bred not chosen breeding stock from a reputable breeder, but people knowing they have champs in the line and deciding to have a go.:rolleyes:

This isn't the best dogs or temprements being used.

A reputable breeder as we know, but not the public is a breeder who works or shows their stud or bitch that way you know you are getting a good pup as it is their reputation on the line.

Until I "inherited" my cocker spaniel, Bob, when my best friend's father died a few years back, I'd never heard of cocker rage. For sure, Bob certainly didn't have this rare syndrome but, like many cockers, had a "mind of his own" and following a couple of rather disruptive years when he lost both his elderly owners and was moved from one end of the country to another, he bonded very strongly with me and preferred not to let me out of his sight. Thus, when my OH invited him downstairs to the kitchen at bedtime, Bob would "grumble" (it couldn't be described as a growl) before apologising and reluctantly going downstairs as slowly as possible. He'd also grumble if removed from his favourite activity of chasing around next door's henhouse while the hens had conniptions inside it.

On describing Bob's behaviour to someone, I was assured that he was probably suffering from "cocker rage" and, whilst dismissing this totally out of hand, I was interested enough to do a lot of research anyway. I discovered, as others have, that the syndrome is extremely rare but is also very readily distinguishable from other behaviours. In particular, a cocker with rage literally isn't on the same planet and appears totally unaware of what it is doing.

Guarding and overpossessiveness are difficult to deal with but they shouldn't be confused with genuine "cocker rage" and unfortunately, the very existence of rage syndrome has left this breed vulnerable to hasty and erroneous diagnoses. 

As always though, it's essential to choose a reputable breeder and expect to wait until a good pup is available.

favourite activity of chasing around next door's henhouse while the hens had conniptions inside it.

Is conniptions a local word? :)  Is that where your dog's name came from?