Touting adding Rottweilers Alsatians(sic) to the DDA stating the parents of children wil feel safer if these breeds are muzzled in public !!
Excuse me but which GSD has ever killed someone in public ? did I miss that ?& what about the police/forces/guide/SARDA dogs they will be exempt ??? Jeez what a real plonker couldn't even slag off a breed by it's correct name !!!!!

I'm seething too Moon

The man is an abolute Ass, what ill thought out..('if' thought out at all) comments he spewed :(
And 'quelle surprise' he's in the Muzzle all dogs brigade. :rolleyes:
Buffoon, utter Buffoon!

He's a 73yr old codger - one of Maggie's men :rolleyes:

Perhaps he should stay retired.........;)

Margot

Is my memory failing me or wasn't it Kenneth Baker that actually introduced the DDA?

That's why they were interviewing him ;)

Daisy

Cheers Daisy. :)

There's me calling him an old codger - but this daft old bat didn't say why he was a silly old codger - I had meant to say he was one of those that brought in this hastily written,ill-judged and badly worded act!

Senior moments and blonde moments coming together all too often these days:rolleyes:

Margot

IMO this man is an idiot. He needs to look at the so called breed specific legislation. It is nothing to do with breed but all to do with individuals and the way they bring thier dogs up, the "PIT BULL" breeds are harder biting and generally easier to get aggressive but a wound up Rottie or a bad tempered GSD or even a hyper poodle can cause the death of a child. We should be looking at those who own dogs and how suitable they are not blanketing a whole breed, whatever it is. I do believe and correct me if i am wrong (I'm sure you will??) some breeds are easier to make agressive than others and the Bull breeds were bred to fight, but in the right hands with correct socialization they are no more harmfull than your average lab. The dangerous dog act should be called ----The Dangerous Dog Owner Act----- more to the point I think!
Cull those idiots who teach thier dogs to fight or terorize the places they live. The dogs are after all doing what they have been taught to do by our careful selection and breeding, if you want a dog to round up sheep choose the ones with the best stalking and rounding instincts, those who want fighting dogs choose the studs and broods whose tempraments are agressive to start with, them they sell the surplus to unsuspecting inocents who cannot handle what they get. Any one who has a dog should have mandatory puppy training and be somehow registered. We should never have got rid of the dog licience but tightened it up in some way.

And that would have helped the child that died yesterday and the one killed by the Rotties exactly how I wonder!! Seeing as neither case was in public but indoors!!

No maybe not but like I said it's no good having breed specific legistration but more about trying to teach folk to be aware of thier dogs potential. Any breed has the ability to cause serious harm if not carefully managed. People take on dogs unaware of thier potential to cause harm and maybe if things were tighter in teaching management these attacks would be fewer. I have not got the answers but I do believe that a dog owner should have some knowledge before embarking on dog ownership. Those who take on these ?agressive dogs? no doubt think they are capable of managing them, my three Bernies are softies but I hope I have enough knowedge to handle them, I would no sooner leave them alone with my Grandchildren than assume they are harmless but I have a lot of years of dog handling under my belt, maybe this owner did, we don't know but the interview with this man surrounded the DDA and it is this point I was making that this piece of legislation needs to be reviewed ASAP

Forgot to add earlier -maybe he thinks the police dogs should all be like the police malinois in Wales!!!! Muzzled and headbutting! :rolleyes:

he does not live in the real world, he said that he could not believe these dogs where still being sold, you just have to go onto one of the big sale sites on the web and they are being sold openly only they name them differently, call them something else advertise them with a picture and you can buy one, a pit bull.

i have a rottie and i will obide by the rules if brought in to protect my girl but why should we be punished for the people that will disobey the rules, the man said that rotties and he did not call them german shepherds he said alsations should be muzzled in places where children are, well i do agility with my rottie and the kc will not let them run in muzzles but there are children around, some even run my rottie so what will happen then, do i have to give up the sport i love, if we go into the breed ring will they all be muzzled as children also go to breed shows, or will we be exempt from this law when doing these things,
also will my rottie have to be muzzled in training agility as sometimes there are children there ?

carolann

Carolann the MAJOR problems if they ever were to add Rotties to the DDA (which I doubt they will -fingers crossed eh!!) would not be the muzzling, but it would be that they would then ALL have to be neutered, could not be sold or given away and never be off lead in public, so it would mean the end of the breed in this country -the DDA's section 1 which is the one mentioning specific breeds was deigned to make sure tehse breeds disappeared from Britain altogether. (You also cannot import any of those breeds.) You would also not be allowed to be at any KC licensed event, not even a companion show.

they are changing or trying to change the dda act, so that neutering etc is to become an option if you can prove that your dogs are under control,and are trained how they will do this i do not know.
it is the same thing for docking they can not police it and they know they can't,
there needs to be someway of collecting data for dog bites etc, and seeing actually who the biggest biters are , and then the goverment will be in for a shock, i have a friend who works in a and e and she says it is the little dogs they have the most people coming into be stiched up they have nipped and bitten,personally and this is just me, i am sick of being told by people who don't know my dogs what i should be doing and how my dogs should be, why don't they go after the people that they where talking about on the tv the ones in the estates that run riot with there dogs, the ones they know have bad dogs or dogs that they have umpteen complaints about that dog that killed the little girl had been given warning after warning, but yet again something is to be done after the fact and not before what good is that nothing to the little girls family.
as i am sitting writing this two children have been bitten by a sbt in newcastle just been on the news,
will get off my soapbox now
carolann

I was encouraged to see a snippet in the daily mail today, where someone pointed out that the law should penalise individual aggressive dogs and their owners rather than banning or muzzling entire breeds.  At least someone out there has an ounce of sense, and in a national paper too.

Yep - little dogs - the only dog bite I received during many years of Health Visiting was from a Yorkie...I stood up to go and wash my hands, and felt this searing pain in my calf....the granny picked the snarling growling animal up and said, "You're lucky - if you'd been a man he wouldn't have let you in in the first place!" :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Yep me to the only bites I had working in kennels for years were from small dogs and cats lol.

Really not sure how you get around this one. I have two small dogs now but did recently had a GSD. He was a big sop and loved the kids but was dog aggressive when out. If GSDs were to be included in the DDA he would of had to be muzzled when walking. He would of hated that and so would I. He loved his walks and I was very carefull not to let him of the lead anywere near another dog. Often walking him in places and at times we were unlikley to meet someone. His best walks were in the woods were he chased his tennis ball and sticks. Couldnt do that in a muzzle. If they were to be included I would have to think very carefully about getting another GSD or anyother breed that is in the act. I have no desire to own a pit bull,staffy or rottie. Nothing agaisnt the last two breeds just not my cup of tea but  I do love GSDs and I miss my boy dearly and cant wait until I am able to have another. I am a responsible owner but not being able to let my dog run free when out would break my heart. Again it is the responsible owners that are being punished because of the bad ones.

Wendy

What I don't understand is how something can be determined as a "Pit Bull type". It either IS a pitbull, or it isn't. Just because it *looks* like a PB doesn't necessarily mean it is one, and nor does it mean it has the same characteristics. Its like banning SWD's and then prosecuting someone for having a Labradoodle that looks like one!

There is no way this will stand up in court - its a joke!

>It either IS a pitbull, or it isn't.

No, because 'pitbull' isn't a breed. The closest is the American Staffordshire Bull Terrier (which are often jointly registered in the US as pitbulls) but basically any dog that looks like an oversized SBT is considered 'of the type' and is therefore technically illegal. Deciding on what is actually 'of the type' is a minefield.

Thats ridiculous.

You can't condemn something on the basis that it might look like something else. Its based on opinion as opposed to fact?!

Yep. Boxer crosses, dane crosses, any SBT crosses - all potentially at risk.

How have you managed to miss all this Carla? All the cases that's been all over the newspapers, dog papers, dog magazines, radio and Tv ever since the DDA was introduced in 1991. There were 2 people in particular -a police officer and an RSPCA officer, oh and also one vet, who basically did nothing at all (and made lots of money from it) but accused dogs as being of the PB type and then of course it is up to defence to prove it is NOT -you don't have to prove it IS under the DDA, the defence has to prove the opposite. The reverse of innocent until proven guilty.
Under the DDA the dog hasn't had to do anything if charged under section 1. My ex was for a while on about writing a book about all the famous cases such as Dempsey, Stella, Lacey etc, but he never did in the end.

I don't read the dog press and I have never seen any reports. I've seen the occasional story about dogs being siezed but not paid much attention to be honest :)

There is no way this will stand up in court - its a joke!

But you know it will because it has done over and over in the past. Even a KC reg'd leggy Staffy has been convicted of being a Pit Bull type in court. The reason for why they settled on "type" was that the PB was not a KC breed with a uniform look and people could have got away with owning them if they didn't look exaclty right, or having first crosses.

If they were to be included I would have to think very carefully about getting another GSD or anyother breed that is in the act.

If they were included as a proscribed breed like Pit Bulls you wouldn't be ABLE to get one as it would be illegal to breed, sell and give away any of them.

there is a man i see when walking my dogs that has 2 american staffordshire bull terriers would these be classed as pit bulls

Very likely yes.

Yes. In the US they can be registered as either name depending which registry is used. See here.

so what should i do if anything at all. the male is very dog aggressive and has been used at stud the bitch is still only a baby a very sweet and friendly little girl

In the eyes of the law by not reporting it you could also be considered to be committing an offence.

i honestly didnt realise thay were 1 and the same i dont no the mans details

Personally, I'd turn a blind eye :)

I don't think I'd turn a blind eye to a neighbor that was breeding dog aggressive, illegal dogs. :-(

As people did with the dog in Merseyside? :(

Assuming the dogs above are under control - then yes. It appears the one in Merseyside was not. I'd rather see 2 Am Staffs walked under control and behaving than a cross breed off the lead who manages to bite my son.

What happened to not blaming the breed?!

The Merseyside dog had apparently been reported to the council for being dog-aggressive, just as bek says the male of these Am Staffs is.

What happened to obeying the law? As someone said earlier, if the law (however wrong we may think it) had been obeyed, this would never have happened.

the male (18 months)is very dog aggressive he attacted a rottie in the fields he has also had a go at my boy but the owner now keeps him on the lead at all times the little girl on the other hand is very friendly but is a little shy the man brought the bitch to breed with the dog

If we are going to report all dog aggressive dogs - then that rules out 75% of dogs in the country I would imagine!

It all depends on whether that law is open to intepretation or defined. To define a dog as "pit bull type" means we should report all manner of animals - cross breeds, dogs that just look a bit thick set, large staffies etc. How is that fair? How is that going to solve anything? The last attack was by 2 rotties who aren't even on the list of dangerous dogs!

To define a dog as "pit bull type" means we should report all manner of animals - cross breeds, dogs that just look a bit thick set, large staffies etc. How is that fair?

The DDA ISN'T fair.

So why support it by reporting someone who is not doing anythign wrong (assuming they are not?!)

But they are doing something wrong, by having an illegal dog to begin with. They are also breeding it, which is also illegal.

Bek also says that the dog 'had a go' at her boy (dog or child, I don't know!), and the dog is now kept on a lead. Personally I wouldn't care to be around if it got loose.

my boy = gsd zeus
what would happen to the dogs if i did in fact make a complaint, they male is vv aggressive but the bitch is just a baby and a lovley little girl.

The law was relaxed slightly in 1997 and it's quite possible that the man would be allowed to keep them if they were neutered and muzzled in public.

He now keeps it on the lead though - so at least he's learned his lesson.

I think we should agree to disagree :) I'm not there, he's not my neighbour and I don't know the dogs, so I can't make an informed decision.

Perhaps we should have a Dangerous Owners Act - then they can prosecute my numpty neighbours who keep letting their JR escape.

Perhaps we should have a Dangerous Owners Act

Yes!!!! :D :D

dont get me wrong the owner is a very nice person before the attack on the rottie and zeus i used to speak to him alot he dosnt seem the type to train the dog to be aggressive. he has a couple of children

You don't need it carla, the DDA can apply to any dog, of any breed, that is dangerously out of control in a public place - report the neighbours JR.

Like JG says they ARE. Now where I used to live, just before the DDA came in,there were a lot of Pit Bulls. One night I woke up from horrible noises outside my bedroom window. It sounded like a cat. I ran outside and watched outside through back gate as two men with a Pit Bull laughed as it tore a cat to pieces. (By the time I came out, the cat was already dead.) That's how they "trained" their dog. At night time, when people couldn't see. It explained why my cat (the last of mine to ever be let out) was found 3 weeks previously with such serious dog bites she had to be put down.

During the day this dog was running loose in the area, snapping at people passing by. I wanted to report it but my husband said no -the family that owned it were wellknown for not being friendly. Somebody else DID report the dog eventually and they gt a brick through their window as thanks. The dog was seized though and ti was a huge relief.

I have ALSO know responsible people that had well trained Pit Bulls as pets, acquired BEFORE the DDA.

Who's blaming the breed? I place the blame soundly on a man who is breeding a dog illegally, a dog that is not of good temperament (though he might argue that being dog aggressive is what they were bred for). Is this a responsible breeder? who is he selling the pups to, nice family homes?

Oh good Lori, you managed to say what I couldn't find the words for. :D Yes this is exactly it, whatever we may or may not feel about one breed of dog, I dare say all of us would obey the law if a breed we liked was banned -what other choice IS there after all?