Hello everyone, feeling ever so Christmassy today. I'm sure it will pass though!

Anyway, as you may or may not know I walk a 6 year old lab (neutered dog) and a 4month old dobe (unspayed bitch). The lab is very laid back most of the time and the pup being a pup is hyperactive. The pup is very bouncy and hard to control and she gets very panicky if the lab is out of her reach to the extent that she screams and sometimes soils herself. The problem is she doesn't seem to have learned doggy manners and she likes very much to jump on his head and "play" fight with him (but she can get very rough with him). He has a few joint problems and while being very strong he only growls disapproval when she nips or steals his toys. Whenever I see them they seem to be fighting- and I can never tell when it is play fighting and when it is serious "don't make me come back there kids" fighting. Today it got very loud and there was quite a lot of teeth and the occasional yelp. I don't know who came off worse. I tried distracting them with noise and with food but they were pretty intent and then as suddenly as it started they stopped again as if nothing had happened. Should I leave them to fight and sort it out amongst themselves or is one of them likely to get hurt unless I intervene?

Thanks for any advice you can give me.

I would stop the Dobe when it gets like you have described today . She sounds like a very highly strung little girl that may need some guidance on learning some limits :)

How do the owners cope with her

Yeah she is a handful and a half!

She seems quite dog focussed and doesn't pay people all that much attention if the lab is around. I think they are never separated when they are with their owner- I have to walk them separately because I can't let the dobe off the lead and she gets distressed if the lab wanders off for a sniff about and she won't do her business (which is kind of the point of taking her out in the first place!). Plus they're both very strong and I'm not all that big! I'll try and stop them before it escalates... she is very much the annoying younger sister I think, whenever he picks up a toy then she has to have it despite having all the other toys already! It's difficult when it isn't your own dog as you can't go back to the beginning...

I have a nasty suspicion that if the Dobe pup isn't given some more individual attention by her owners, then the lab will eventually have enough of her big time and the end result could be tragic. I feel very sorry for you, salukipupp, who seems to be doing most of the work to try and keep things harmonious!

Sounds to me that the puppy has become over dependant on the older dog and I would stop walking the puppy with with it as the problems will increase.  Apart from the fact that their exercise requirements are different, one being a mature dog another being a puppy that should not be walked more than 20 mnins at a time and needs 1:1 training.

Your puppy is learning to be a bully which will not be appreciated by you, other dogs or, indeed, other owners when she matures.

I would give this puppy much more 1:1 attention, her behaviour is not really acceptable.

Hi tohme... thanks for the reply. I think you might have got the wrong end of the stick- they aren't my own dogs, I only walk them during the week but I'm just a bit worried about them. I only get to spend about an hour with them at lunchtimes Monday to Friday- if I try to do any training will it make a difference in that short period if the rest of the time she has a different routine? I've thought about bringing titbits and trying to do some training with her but I'm worried I would confuse her. I would also have to teach her that the crate is a good place to be beforehand as at the moment she only seems to associate going in the crate with people leaving her (she doesn't sleep there) so obviously she's not too pleased about going in. I've tried using food to get her in and she doesn't get quite so upset when she goes in now so maybe that's some progress . When I had them overnight it was apparent she's over dependent on the lab as I couldn't take him out for five minutes without her screaming the house down (not good at 6am!). I think the main thing I'm worried about is making her more neurotic than she already is. Is it a good idea to try to train her given the little time I spend with her on the whole or should I just give it a go (and if so, what should I teach her)?

Why not ask the owners what they do with her (if anything) and then say you could do (continue) some training when you are with her if they want, and maybe leave them a wee note to say what you've done, words you have used etc so they will maybe keep it up? I'm sure if it was me that was the owner I would be really pleased that you care so much about the dogs. Maybe she doesn't act like this with them around so it would be worth just having a wee chat and making it clear you want to help the dog. Just an idea :D

Having just returned from a weekend away at the home of a friend with a 4 month old Doberman (male) and a 6 year old GSD, I have just seen exactly what you are describing. :-D

This little 4 month absoloutely adorable pup :-) (I could have taken him home) was a very aggressive player, driving the GSD mad, so the bitch you walk and care for must be even more so as by nature they are rougher in play anyway.

A dobe and a lab will play differently, the dobe will use more bite and grab and try to pull down the lab by his neck, the play will get more and more aggressive with age and the lab will not enjoy it at all, especially when this little girl is bigger. I am sure he is telling her in no uncertain terms to stop but pups being pups aren't going to listen unless he really snaps with her.

Pups bond very fastly to an older dog, a human has no interest for them whatsoever when an older dog is around. So seperation time is needed. So yes, seperate if I were you, the dobe at this age only needs a 20 min walk, take her first then leave her at home whilst you take out the lab, (If you have the time to do this, it will make walks less stressfull and be much easier for you to teach the dobe to walk nicely)

Try to kindly advise the owners that the older dog is not her trainer and full time playmate, the pup must have dog to owner time constantly without the lab.

I wish you luck, but yes, definitely seperate them after a few minutes play, food and noise won't work, you need to take over the play get a tug rope or ball, run and walk up and down a seperate room and try to teach her to walk to heal when she has exhausted her burst of energy and she is calm once more, she can come back into the room with the lab and you can all sit nicely together perhaps doing some little sit and down work with her with the treats then.

Good luck, it is normal behaviour, just divert it a little. :-)