Just had a tearful phone call from a friend.
Her mum went last Thurs to have an annoying cyst removed from her finger. It was getting in the way a bit but not dangerous and could have stayed. The op was done with a local and she came home.
Two day later the area was swollen and painful - so bad that she had to go to A&E and was kept in. Since then she has been kept in hospital, had two generals to have the wound cleaned and is on the highest dose of antibiotics. She has just been told that the finger will have to be removed.
The docs have said that it isn't MRSA but to stop the infection spreading this is the only option. Obviously alarm bells are ringing - lots of what if's - if it doesn't work what next, the arm ?. They have said they will be leaving the wound open for a couple of days to check healing.
I don't like the sound of it - what would you do ?. The family are being told things and are accepting them - I'm not so happy. Yes, it looks like it's too late for the finger, but would you leave her on this ward or get her moved.

Val

ps - It's the same hospital where last year my mum spent the night after a fall. She needed the loo and was bought a commode, only after she'd used it did she notice dried blood all down the outside.

I feel for the staff doing their best but our hospitals are a disgrace.  I friend has just lost his leg at the knee for the same reason, a minor op that went wrong. :(

I was due to go for an internal repair but have decided to live with it as it is. :(

Is it the local one to us Val ?

If so when Indigo was in when her whole neck was swollen their was blood al over the side of the Cot

I would insist to ask what excatly the infection is. I doubt the infection is on the ward as she had the infection prior to her being admitted :)

If they have any doubts then ask for a second opinion and if they have any concerns over cleanliness or infection control then I would ask to speak to the Ward Manager or the Head of Nursing :)

Lucy
xx

Lucy, the one in S not O. Is that the one ?!

No it was the O one ! Is the S one in W ?

Yes !

Hi Val,

If it were someone in my family I would want them moved - but TBH it may not be possible :(

I have a family member suffer from MRSA and it was an awful experience for her and the rest of us, typically the hospital tried to deny it but she had already been told by one of the Doctors and a senior lab technician :rolleyes:  She was not even in hospital for an invasive procedure

Because it is so common now, I have now known personally of further cases - now everyone in my family and our wider circle of friends avoids hospital stays at all costs, including leaving to go home later in the evening following surgery :(
There is no excuse for MRSA - it is bad hygeine.  Nothing to do with under paid / over worked staff, I have been assured of this by a Senior Nursing Officer.  She has never had it in her ward, wing or private clinic - because cleaners have to leave the places SPOTLESS and GERM FREE!

I'm sure it won't be MSRA but of course it's playing on our minds.
For her and my friend's family I just wish they would tell her what's caused it.

link speaks for itself.  Although infection symptoms are diarrhoea and vomiting it does show that there are still serious probs in our hospitals.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=421629&in_page_id=1770

If it is MRSA she would be in isolation and strict infection regulations would be in place to stop it spreading to others. If she is still on a ward with other patients I doubt that she has a communicable infection. Hope that helps?

Hadn't thought of that - makes a lot of sense - thank you.

Where I work....Not all mrsa is isolated, if they have a seperate sink area for the bed then if stretched that will be next option.
It is easily transferable, but PLEASE if you are able to, watch out for anyone coming to you for any reason...staff and visitors at least make sure that they have cleaned their hands with the gel provided. As a patient you are so vulnerable,particularly if you have open wounds.
It is so worthwhile to nag on about hand hygeine, it makes a huge difference as it does wash away and doesn't have to infect.

I really cannot understand what's going on.  Surely the very first rule of nursing is basic hygiene and hand washing? :(

A friend in hospital for a stem cell transplant had a nurse approach her to sort out her Hickman Line and when the patient asked to to wash her hands or wear gloves.  The nurse reluctantly got a pair of USED disposable gloves out of her pocket and went to put them on before she was physically stopped.:(

Seen this in a SCBU and on a childrens surgical ward and they couldn't understand why I wouldn't leave his bedside :rolleyes: Unfortunately some staff tend to forget what should be ingrained by now :( 

Good God, stories like this make me embarrassed to admit to being a Nurse.

It's a uphill struggle though, I'm the Infection Control Link Nurse for my Department and every day I have to draw someones attention to something hygiene related. I often feel I'm beating my head against the wall, and I'm regularly made to feel like I have obsessive compulsive disorder, because I pull people up all the time. On the whole I find fellow nurses better at hand hygiene than Doctors and Surgeons. It never ceases to amaze me how these supposedly educated people are completely stupid :rolleyes: when it comes to basic hygiene.

When it comes to hand washing, I do it front of the patients, so as to not only do the right thing, but be seen to have done it.

I'll keep plugging away. :rolleyes:

Dawn R.

Yup, doctors were worse than nurses but younger nurses weren't brilliant either :(  

When I left school, most of my friends went to train as nurses and they weren't even allowed to wear their uniforms outside of the hospital, they had to change before going to the nurses quarters, and uniforms had to be laundered and starched every night, so fresh for work.  No sitting on buses in a uniform or wearing it home ;)  Hygiene was DRILLED into them mercilessly, hair had to be short or kept 'up', really short nails and no jewellery - and woe betide any who displeased matron ;)

I know exactly what's going on!!! Not enough real Nurses, those that are there seem to have moved away from the first basic of Nursing and that is CARE...to my mind, it seems the emphasis is academia, which is fine...as long as the basics are there...which I don't think they are!  Years ago, and in my time mind! Nurses had to answer to a Sister, who took absolutely no prisoners! Same with the way the wards were cleaned....the cleaners had to answer to the Sister too! And Sister had to answer to Matron!!! Wow betide you if you didn't keep things spotless! Nowadays, it's all about numbers, how many patients treated in how many days etc etc etc...there are NOT ENOUGH Nurses on duty for everyone to get their needs met...these needs can be physical, psychological and emotional...I truly believe in Holistic nursing, which sadly seems to have gone by the board. The Nurses that are there, seem to give more regard for paperwork, or writing reports, evaluations and care plans. I really think we need the SEN back on the ward, who were care focused and left the senior Nurse to write up all the academic stuff! Since they've been removed it seems everybody wants in on the ward management, or named Nurse and no-one has time left for the actual patients. I remember my training, on an acute medical ward I went into the Directorate Nurses Office and she said...'Hi, how are things??...' so I told her! I didn't have time to sit and talk to a terminal patient, all we managed to get done was bed making and washes and then the end of the shift seemed to meet us head on!! Next morning I went on shift, there she was, in uniform, making beds and washing patients! Now that's the sort of Manager I was inspired to be...academic, yet keen to get my hands...OR GLOVES dirty!! Always there, at the end of the day, for the patients! So, back to basics it is then?? I read in the Nursing times that there are over 150% more Managers now than 20 years ago?? Why?? Nurses that got promoted to Matron or Hospital Manager, knew all about patient care and managing it! Now it seems that anyone can train as a Hospital Manager and have absolutely no experience on the front line...and these are the people that amke decisions about how many Nurses are hired, and fired! Also, how much funding goes into basic care! Cleaners report to a different manager, who pass on messages about unsatisfactory cleaning....but hey, who cares! You only need to watch some undercover reporting to see the real truth about what goes on nowadays, and very sad watching it makes too...so glad I have BUPA!!! LOL regards, Dawn (this doesn't mean that ALL hospitals are bad...there are the good, but unfortunately these seem to be fewer and fewer...I'm sure the hospitals where you Nurses on here work, are fantastic!!)

Hey Val come on people are on the wards WITH MRSA and they don't even know THEY have it , As God looks down on me that is the 100% truth. It is often hidden from them.

"I just wish they would tell her what's caused it."

Most infections are acquired at home, and NOT in hospitals as the press like to claim. Especially with hands, they get contaminated, and with a dressing on its hard to wash your hands. It could be from anywhere, and as she didnt catch the infection on the ward, I can see little sense in moving her from there.
Its sad to hear that she may lose her finger, all the same. If the lady and her family are happy with what is going on, I think you need to accept that. Maybe they have been given more info than they have shared with you. Either way, I am sure that they are capable of making their own decisions, and its best if you can be supportive without trying to take over. The medical team and the patient are the ones to decide on her care. Do you really have the medical knowledge to start challenging the care given?

It is true that most people infected with MRSA have it present on their skin anyway...Pinklillies...you seem to work or have experience at a very good hospital with staff you obviously trust a great deal...however this isn't always the case! I have had first hand of it not being the case as a senior Nurse and as a patient, too many times unfortunatley! I would gladly visit your hospital anytime!!! All the best, Dawn

I am happy to say that we are VERY tight on our cleanliness. We wear a new  apron and gloves for each patient, and handwash and gel between every patient. Every piece of equipment is either disposable, or we bleach it between patients. All beds/chairs are scrubbed between patients. ( In an audit I identified that I washed my hands over forty times a day.) We also have "mystery " assessors who watch our activities and report us if we are not clean. We also offer our patients a cleansing wipe prior to eating.
I must say however that I am rather shocked at the variety of personal hygeine standards that our patients display. I regularly take patients to the toilet, and I must say that in 85% of cases I have to remind the patient to wash their hands afterwards . I can only assume that they dont do it at  home either...YUK. I have also seen patients spitting in sinks   I think it is up to staff AND patients ( and visitors) to all pull their weight where cleanliness is concerned. that means  -no sitting on beds. visitors washing hands, patients washing hands, and visitors not coming in if they are carrying infections.

I must add though, that we are very well supplied with soap, hand gel, pinnies and gloves. I have worked in other places where they dont supply anywhere near enough of these, and then it is hard for individuals to comply. That is a real management issue.

Well, I reported a member of staff in Asda once...who I followed out of the toilet, she didn't bother to wash her hands and she worked on the Fruit and Veg!!! I have never shopped there since! You should see me when I come out of toilets! I won't even touch the door handles as I see so many women just walking out and grabbing the door! I think it's disgusting and yes a lot of peoples' hygiene needs education...BUT as is said in other posts...people now have all the rights but no RESPONSIBILTY! We haven't got a hope in hell educating people about their hygiene when they can't be bothered teaching their children basic manners and respect?? All the best, Dawn Pinklillies do you work at Wolverhampton??(is it something 'cross' in the name...can't remember now it was so long ago!) I nearly went for a job there in picu, got an interview, but then a job closer to home!!

Does this not get drilled into kids at lower / junior school nowadays? It always was at my school???

errmm apparently not! Nor is it drummed into Nurses anymore! I see local Hospital staff(from Alder Hey) in Sainsburys, in UNIFORM ALL the time! Recipe(pun intended!) for disaster...I don't want to buy fresh stuff when they've dragged their hands and uniform all over it!

OH had an appointment at the RF in London. I went to the loo and while I was washing my hands a nurse came out of another another cubicle and just breezed straight out the door and didn't even glance at the sinks.

CherylS, that could be because the sinks are dirtier than her hands would be!  I have a friend who studied chemistry years ago and she had to do an experiment at uni about germs and where is mankiest.  From what I remember, bowls of peanuts in bars were very disease ridden and under people's nails was about the same as a toilet seat - yuk!  The dirtiest place of all would probably be the toilet door i.e. after weeing but before washing hands.  Feel all queasy just thinking about it.

Wound isolated MRSA is NOT picked up at home after an amputation. 

Blue....It has been clearly stated by Val, that this woman does NOT have MRSA, but has a different infection.

Blue....It has been clearly stated by Val, that this woman does NOT have MRSA, but has a different infection.

Yes , I am confused in the point of your reply to me. I am mearly pointed put my feelings on the NHS not the posters post which I am. entitled.

Whatever the cause it doesn't change my opinion on the shambles of mine and yours NHS.

I'm with you all the way Blue!

My sister was told by her Hospital Doctor that she had contracted MRSA, later confirmed by a technician who came to take additional bloods from her.  Strangely, around three weeks later, she was advised that she had NOT had MRSA but that since *unfortunately all of her notes and test results had gone missing* she would be re-tested to see if they could diagnose what the problem was.  She was on a cocktail of strong ABs for around 6 weeks, including her hospital stay during which she was barrier nursed.  The Sister at the OP clinic told her she believed it unlikely that any cause would now be found considering how long she had been on the treatment :rolleyes:

Strangely, she never got a further diagnosis but has been left with a noticeable limp and a very large piece of the flesh from the side of her foot is gone forever.  Around 4 years later, she is still in pain - it never leaves her, fortunately the levels of pain vary from mainly bearable to regular use of strong pain killers being required if she has to stand around or walk any distance.  She's now only 46 - a young woman, mother of 5, grandmother of 2, and her quality of life has been compromised  

She was originally admitted to hospital with a suspected heart problem, on the medical ward so no surgical procedures were carried out on her but she was catheterised - within 48 hours she was very, very seriously ill, raging temperature, delirious and in excruciating pain.  Our entire family was traumatised by everything - my sister was at that time the principal carer of our mother who was severely disabled and bed-ridden. 

Within a few weeks of my sister coming out of hospital my mother was diagnosed with breast cancer.  Needless to say when her *private consultant* was advised of the home situation he felt strongly that his original recommendation of operating be set aside for drug therapy instead.   The health risk to my mother relating directly to my sister's illness was too great  :(  My sister was not allowed to accompany my mother to the private clinic or latterly to hospital.  They insisted they had never had MRSA on the premises and would not compromise their strictly adhered to precautions.

Further more I have two family groups within my friends who have lost elderly relatives to MRSA having been admitted to NHS hospitals for other non-related health matters.  Neither of these people entered their respective hospitals with symptoms of MRSA and neither came home between treatment for their original illnesses and the onset of this dreaded "super-bug".   While I know from Senior medical staff that many of us DO carry this bug and suffer no ill affects from it, the simple fact is that some patients contract it when physically in hospitals  :(

When your closest friend is crying to you that she is scared, it is hard not to get involved. They are capable of making their own decisions - but not able to think straight. No I don't have medical knowledge and neither do they, which is why I put my concerns on here - hoping to get other views.
Of course they aren't happy to accept it but they aren't in a position to do much about it.
I've had two more calls from her tonight letting me know what's happening - the doctor has said that the infection is one that he has only seen a few times before but in this case it's much more rapid. Not the best news really.

Val

Is this a very British attitude to "not grumble, its rude"??

If I was concerned about my health or anyones health at a hospital I would be asking lots of questions.  They would answer just to shut me up! :-D

Maybe I just tend to cause a ruccus more than others??

My grandad is currently in hospital, and our hospital has been in the news, and not for good reasons.  I will be keeping a very cose eye, although they have been exemplary so far...

After all, it could be your life you are taking into your hands.  I would say that your friend should be very open about her concerns to the senior nurses and get some answers that satisifes them.  Maybe I'm just a stroppy madam though.... tee hee

I know that it is hard not to get involved, but you asked for advice, and that is the best advice that I can give you.
  Please remember that although some of us on this board have a medical background,  most have no medical knowledge or training. Even those  of us with a medical background would be foolish to give out any advice without the relevant information.....we have no details of the infection, the drugs , the relevant past medical history etc. All these things significantly influence what advice should be given.  Nobody here has enough information to give advice that should be taken seriously...this is just a message board.
If you want to do the best for your friend, you could suggest that she seek a medical second opinion, where her case can be reviewed by someone with all the facts.

TBF to Val (arched), she hasn't been asking for medical advice or opinion - as you say this is a message board (well, technically an "information exchange") where she has every right to post and voice her *personal concerns* and ask for others' *personal opinions* on what they would do or how they would feel in similar circumstances.  No more, no less :)

Let's hope that another thread running today has not been taken to the point where no-one can ask "what would you do?/feel?say?" as I'm sure that was not its intention :)

>If you want to do the best for your friend, you could suggest that she seek a medical second opinion, where her case can be reviewed by someone with all the facts.

Practical, sensible advice :)

teri

you are talking utter rubbish! the majority of people carry mrsa and it only becomes a problem if you become ill. i work in  a hospital and believe me hand washing and using gell is paramount. people bring mrsa IN with them, im sick of everyone blaming the nhs

Watch your tone madam!   You are as entitled to your opinion as anyone else but rudeness and arrogance don't carry much clout when attempting to debate a point. 

I stated *facts*, as known to and experienced by me :)

Yes but the increase in visitors as well is a likey cause of the increase in cases as well as the down turn in cleanliness :)

It is down to strict infection controls which can only be mantained by hospital staff :)

With the many cuts been made in the NHS is is difficult enough for alot of nurses to do their jobs as it is. It is everybodies responsibility at the end of the day :)

I for one made sure when I was in hospital or Indigo was that anybody who came to visit washed there hands :)

One point which is also interesting is that the Private Hospital I went into has never ever had one case of MRSA :) The cleaning that went on was very thorough and was also very frequent which was not the case in the  NHS hospital :)

>One point which is also interesting is that the Private Hospital I went into has never ever had one case of MRSA

Our experience too Lucy :)

Perhaps because the funding for the cleaning budget is much higher than in the NHS?

I should think a great deal higher :)

That's what I woud think as well - you get what you pay for (meaning if the NHS cleaning budget isn't high enough, we shouldn't be surprised if the hospitals aren't clean :()  Outsourcing cleaning and losing Matron were the two worst things IMO.

Hi Annie, completely agree :)

They are supposed to be in place already :)

Modern Matrons

Ah but I doubt they will be able to rule with a rod of iron like the old ones, wouldn't be allowed these days!

Yes and they probably have to spend alot of their time doing paperwork and trying to get costs somewhere near the unrealistic budgets they have been given :rolleyes:

i agree that nhs hosptals are not cleaned effectively- probably down to budget but floors and work tops do not carry mrsa. As a nurse of 25 years we do all we can to enhance hand cleaning and the gelling of hands. As i said before, most people bring the bug IN with them.

you get what you pay for (meaning if the NHS cleaning budget isn't high enough, we shouldn't be surprised if the hospitals aren't clean :-()

Have you seen the deductions from my pay and how much council tax I pay.!!!!!!!!!!!!

We all pay out a lot of tax Blue - doesn't mean it is being allocated to the right places.  In fact it almost certainly isn't. :(

25 years ago I was in hospital (surgical) for 11 days.  At that time you couldn't move for tripping over the cleaners who worked constantly keeping the place spotless :)  

In hospital with Little-un 8 years ago and the only cleaning in 14 days was a bit of a sweep round a week on a children's surgical ward and if they couldn't reach under the chair/ bed with the brush then it got left no attempt to really clean tho in fact I felt the cleaner needed a good kick to get her moving :( 

Little-Un has had to learn to be scrupulous about hand washing and hygiene - a bout of D+V could land him in hospital, and in school his teacher complained about the time he takes in the toilet - washing his hands!!  as the other kids are quicker, but then she admitted they don't stop to wash their hands   He's in year 5 and has not had any D+V so far despite it going around the school several times ;) :) (having written that I give us a week.... )

I'm often appalled when I have to use a public loo at how few women actually wash their hands afterwards   I come out of there like a surgeon ready to operate - elbows first :D

> public loo at how few women actually wash their hands afterwards

Exactly! I try to get out without touching the door handle, as if it's touched, I think it negates the point of hand washing :(
I bought my house from a couple of whom one was a nurse. The downstairs carpets needed throwing out - I got laminates put down, and felt obliged to explain to the man that they weren't my carpets . The dining room one was covered in patches of pee - hopefully that was their dog.... The kitchen was coated with filth and grease, there was mouse poo in the cupboards, and the back garden was COVERED in dog poo. And that's just downstairs . I hope she washed her hands when she got to work.