I have always endorsed all my puppies that have left me, more for the good of the breed than anythng else. Now as those of you who read the dog ress will know, there has been a major problem in my breed, currently ongoing, with the KC registering part breds with no papers Last night i heard that one of my endorsed pups, whose endorsement  would never lift as he s not elbow tested and sadly has a bad mouth, is being used on one of those part breds What i want to know is can the KC register the pups, even though hes endorsed?  They seem to be entirely a rule to themselves on ths issue & my phonecalls to the KC have not been successful. Any ideas?

Heaven knows Sam but I think the KC are taking themselves into "grey" areas at times. They seem to stick to the rules sometimes and not with others. You speak to one person they insist one thing then another person insists another. 

I have know both sides where they have lifted restrictions against the breeders wishes and flip of the coin where the sided with the breeder.  I am normally always for " based on the circumstances" but thoses i have seen are not often so different.

They frighten me at times.

If you have a statement/contract signed by the owner saying that they knew the puppy was endorsed when it was purchased then the KC will probably refuse registration of offspring.  If not then I'm afraid there's nothing you can do. 
I tell ya Sam,  I'd hate to be in your breed now with all that's been happening and splits and cliques going on here, there and everywhere.  I t must be hell :(

Debs

debs,  really arent any splits & cliques as it was all brought about by just one person in the breed!!!  (can one person on their own be a clique)  All the others involved are not in the breed atall, they are into pack hounds, which are not "in the breed" if that makes sense

No idea about your breed BUT the KC has today sent out a press release about endorsements. It says:

KENNEL CLUB ENDORSEMENTS

The KC receives regular enquiries relating to the correct placement of endorsements and to the circumstances under which these will be lifted. 

In order to ensure that the KC will uphold an endorsement it is essential that the endorsement is placed correctly.  The main points are that the endorsement must be in place before the new owner takes the puppy home and it must be drawn to their attention, in writing, so they are fully aware of the implications before they buy the puppy.  The most effective way of ensuring this is to ask the puppy buyer to sign and date a contract with the breeder to the effect that they are aware of and accept the terms of the endorsement.  A copy of this contract should be kept by the breeder and a copy given to the new owner for future reference.  This essential requirement is referred to on the Form 1 (Application for Litter Registration) and full details are given in Appendix 1. 

If an endorsement is correctly placed, the KC will not lift it without the specific permission of the breeder - even if the dog changes hands again.

One thing they have forgotten to comment on it WHAT happens if the endorsement hasn't ben drawn to the person attention in a contract. They have left that open to interpretation. 

Not at all Blue - if the endorsement hasn't been drawn to the persons attention before they took the pup - and that is confirmed in writing - then they will lift the endorsement.

Not at all Blue - if the endorsement hasn't been drawn to the persons attention before they took the pup - and that is confirmed in writing - then they will lift the endorsement.

Sorry but that is where perhaps yourself and so many others are mistaken.  It doesnt say that at all. They fact is it doesn't say it clearly, which it should.  

They have not set a flat rule about it. There have been very very different outcomes to the same situations.

I can assure you all I know of at least 4 different senarios where outcomes have conflicted each other.

It reads to me that as long as the breeder correctly placed the endorsements in the first place, drawing the buyer's attention to them and getting the signature on the statement that they'd understood what they meant, then even if the dog subsequently changes hands the breeder's wishes still stand - that another agreement between the second and third, or any other subsequent owners isn't required. Curtrently, of course, the chances are they  will lift them.

Sorry to be stupid.............But.....if my registration says 'progeny not to be registered' And I have not been given a contract or anything explaining what that is about, then perhaps I could breed (No WAY).?
Truly I don't want to, but I was not aware that when I bought my dog it would be on his papers, I did want a bitch initially and remember the breeder saying that she wouldn't like to think I wanted a bitch to have puppies from, this wasn't an issue as we had a dog instead, but I was surprised to read that on the pedigree.
Karen

You are not being stupid at all!  Your breeder has been very careless - you probably could get the KC to lift the endorsements if you wanted them to. 

Blimey, doesn't seem very professional in this day and age does it! :rolleyes:
Karen

It reads to me that as long as the breeder correctly placed the endorsements in the first place, drawing the buyer's attention to them and getting the signature on the statement that they'd understood what they meant, then even if the dog subsequently changes hands the breeder's wishes still stand  .yip I agree but I strongly believe that they have not mentioned what will happen if they have not lifted them for a reason. Yes of course I do not want them to lift them if per chance it was an over site BUT I do know of a case where the breeder promised to lift them and there is no contract and the KC is not lifting them, I also know of an exact same situation where the KC has lifted them.

I think they are going to get themselves into hot water one of these days

Can't believe that!  There's someone in my breed who thought if they did all the health tests etc and they passed with flying colours that they would have restrictions lifted unfortunately this wasn't to be and the KC weren't interested, although the owners should of read their contract better!

How can the KC register cross breeds as this is what they are in this way but won't allow restrictions from a dog with better health tests than many in the country??  I sometimes wonder about the KC and what they do.  They are only ever interested if they are going to make a fare bit of money or that is how it seems!

Also when the ruling came in where certain dogs could be registered we had an import of our breed who had no papers at that time and letters, wonderful health tests etc. and confirmation that she was a good example of the breed were sent to the KC and they weren't interested.  I find this matter very strange or is it me???

When I had an endorsement on a bitch the breeder (from whom I had another girl) said she would be happy to lift it provided I came to her for advice and guidance.  That sounds fair to me and certainly I would not have done otherwise at the time since I was a novice to the breed.

I know this is about breeding endorsement, but what about the export part? How do you get around this if you want to take your dog abroad to show? Does this have to be lifted? Just out of pure curiosity as I've no intention of showing abroad. ;)

The export restriction only stops a KC export pedigree from being issued - it does not atop a dog going abroad either temporarily or permanently. For what I know you dont need an export ped to show abroad.

Like I said, I was just curious :D BUT as dogs from other countries need an ATC number to show here in the UK I wondered if there was something similar for us going abroad. :)

Usually you just need to provide the registration document when entering a show, and the champion cert if your dog is a champion and you want to enter in the champions classes.

Thanks Barbara. I knew someone on here would know :D

i have read all these posts with wonderment. first what breed are you talking about . secondly how can kc register crossbreds. thought they where only interested in purebreds. sorry if i am being dim.

There is a huge controversy in Blodhounds at present as there have been pack bloodhounds which are reportedly not pure bred bloodhounds being breed to KC registered bloodhounds & the progeny registered as bloodhounds with the KC