show your dog at crufts or just be there for the shopping, the reason i ask a lady at club has qualified all her dogs for crufts, but she is taking none of them she never does, she said it is just a large champ show  which is overcrowded now, and she prefers to watch and do shopping than show her dogs, just wondered what others would prefer to do
carol

I have several of mine qualified and I HATE showing at Crufts,its more for the public,its crowded,
hot,we cant leave till 4pm then its a mad frenzy to get out.
BUT
I still enter every year,moan about it every year,luckily Im local so can go for the 2 days Ive qualifed the dogs
then go 2 days shopping :)

All of mine have earned their stud book numbers so been/are life qualified but I reckon I've shown on a max of a handful of occasions in the last 16 or so years.  I've gone a few times without dogs and TBH didn't enjoy those occasions much either - it's too busy, over crowded, unbearably noisy and VERY non-dog / non-exhibitor friendly.

I suppose if the venue were more local rather than a 600+ mile round trip and entailing at least two nights hotel accommodation I may think of visiting without dogs more often ........ wouldn't bet on it though ;)

regards, Teri 

BOTH! Each year we've moaned that we don't get time to do any shopping when we're showing, so this time we are going 2 days and have got BIS tickets. One day to show, one to shop and watch BIS -handy that Sunday next time is toy day so I can get to see the Papillons as I always show on pastoral day. :)

Have been on a few occassions with a friend that shows, We took it in turns to shop but only looking for 'essentials'. I only showed for the first time this year and hopefully (barring season ;) ) will be showing next year. If you get there really early in the morning you can shop before the crowds - though having to stay till 4 makes it a very long day for the dogs :( Its not somewhere I would just go to shop, preferring the LKA for that :)
must make a list for that week :)

I'm fine showing my breeds at Crufts because we're always at the back of Hall 5, right away from any crowds and all the hustle and bustle.  Even the Hall 5 exhibitors entrance is right next to the benches.  Last year I didn't take a dog and all four breeds I wanted to watch were in adjacent rings! :d  Goodness only knows what I'd do if we were right in the middle though.  I very rarely wander into the other halls even to do shopping.  I make a list and if it's too busy I try and persuade someone else to get the things I want while they're off looking round LOL.   I do consider Crufts to be fairly special in as much as you have to qualify to get there but IMO the qualifications are too easy (yes, in any breed).  Personally I think they'd be better off having just CC and Res CC winners there.  It wouldn't be so big but quality is so much better than quantity ;)  Might seem a  bit harsh to some but that's how I see it.  However, I absolutely love judging there :d

Debs

Yes I would ike just the CC and RCC winners and maybe BPIB winners so the curent and cming youngters can be see, as in many slow maturingbreed they wouldn't be winning gren cards until much older.

I keep a list of all main winners in my breed over the year (CC, RCC and BPIB) as when I did the breednotes it was handy to do the years round up.

Now we have one more set of CC's, but so far we have had 34 exhibits win a CC, RCC or BPIB award, and of course there are existing champions too, asnd overseas dogs.  That would give us a potential entry of about 40% of what it is now.

Wonder how it would work out in numerically stronger breeds???

Don't think the general public would notice the reduction in actual numbers of dogs entered especially wqhen yo se how popular discover dogs with no breed judging at all is.

Those who come to see actual dogs really would see the best ones.

Yes, I agree too, CC, RCC and as Brainless says BPIB winners - but miss out the  grad, post grad etc. I have sometimes wondered what a visitor would think if they happned to pass by the borzoi ring and only watch a post grad class, where they may be some nice youngsters and a few other quality dogs but also some questionable ones - they may think that's the very best we have in this country, as the best os what you come to Crufts to see.

It would be less crowded too.

I doubt it would be less crowded as the KC would then find otherways of filling the space and push the exhibitors further into the corners

Or perhaps just those who hold a stud book number, to open it a up a little?

Sounds good to me. (But then, I'm in the prefer it without dogs camp.)

M.

In my breed stud book numbers are only available to CC, RCC and JW winners and 1st and 2nd in the Open class, so we don't find many with a stud book number that haven't won a RCC at least, though my Elka (rest her heart) was one such.

As with chaumsong & Brainless yep - I'd say better restricted to the upper quality dogs.  CC, RCC, JW and BP winners.   Together with established champions at home and abroad this should represent the creme de la creme of each breed and would be more interesting to attend whether as exhibitor, spectator or judge ;)
Of course it would in turn vastly reduce the number of entries and I can't see the KC being enamoured by that :(

A smaller show, particularly being more dog/exhibitor friendly, would IMO be a much better show.

Aaahhh but what about those gundog breeds which are maybe FTCh's or who have lots of working test awards, there's the relevant classes for each individual  breed on gundog day and surely the whole point of showcasing gundogs is to enlighten the general public as to their dual purpose ability???????

What about ShCM winners after all in most breeds this is a major achievement to win too?

I think it should go back to 1st prize winners only.  In my breed if you campaign a dog long enough over the year, even one of doubtful quality, you'll get qualified even if it's a 3rd out of 3. 

Or the qualifications should be structured along the stud book bands because a 3rd in a Golden Retreiver class is still something, looking at their class sizes.

I'd rather show - it's such an honour to qualify your dog for Crufts! But the shopping's fun too, I often try to get up there 2 days running. Going with 3 friends this year, so will hopefully get time to shop and watch some obedience while they look after my dog! :-D

Stud Book qualifiers and Best Puppy in Breeds would cover it then, as basically it is RCC, CC, and JW winners that get stud book numbers, plus a few extra dogs in Open and a few in Limit in the numerically strong breeds.  Then the boast I see in some puppy adverts about Crufts Qualified parentage would actually mean something, as general public haven't a clue what a stud book number is but think getting to Crufts is special, and more difficult than it in fact is.

Also it would mean that there would be some real comparison with the overseas competition as they have to get BOB or Best Youth at only a couple of specific shows to qualify, or be champions. 

They must think when they get to Crufts that the quality is not so good here judging by the quality of some of the qualifiers here, as they won't realise that it is easier for us to qualify.

Originally the qualifier was never about quality but about reducing numbers to a manageable level for the venue.  In most peoples minds now it is a mark of quality so it should really e that.

Look at the big US show, Westminster.  It has very few dogs entered and only champions, and even very few of them get in as there is a numbers cut off, a bit like with field and working trials her.

Only thing is... wouldn't they expect to recoup the same revenue from the show, and put up entry fees accordingly?

Was meant to appear under Teri's post.

If it was more prestigious I'd personally pay more to enter.  It costs more to go to the Contest of Champions than it does to go to Crufts but people still go :)

Debs

They make more than enough on the gate to give us free entries, and the gate wouldn't be affected by fewer dogs.

I can't see that working or wanted.  As I say it does nothing to showcase those gundog breeds - particularly HPR's - were there's no difference in type to show & working dogs.  Those who have won well in the field would be penalised because their owner choses not to show yet the relevant class is scheduled at Crufts for them.

Do the Gundog awards not get them stud book number?  I thought they did?

Some do. ;)

If the dog had points towards it's working title (I have no idea how a FT Ch is made up) then it could be exhibited as it would be the equivilent to a CC ;)  It could work the same with any breed where the KC want working titles as well as show titles for a full Champion. 

Debs