Ok here goes , we had one of our ch shows today the dog that won the CC and BIS was not entered in the catalogue, so a few people went to ask to see the entries and the committee refused to show them, stating that it was a late entry and so they did not have the paperwork with them.

I am sure that is against Kc rules they have to have them and show them to the exibiters if they ask don't they? considering the man who won the CC is on the committee

Peanuts

This happened a few months back where the bitch got the cc. she wasn't in the catalogue. Its not the only time this particular owner has had a 'late entry'

in obedience if the entry hasent arrived (lost in post) but you have offical PO proof of postage,then you can compete,but if you win get/ placed this WILL need to be produced for the KC or your place will be withdrawn

Same in breed.

I don't blame you one bit for being suspicious, I would be too under those circumstances.

Why not contact the Kennel Club, and ask what you need to do to report your conserns. I'm not sure whether this would need the £35.00 fee or not. The exhibitor involved will be asked to produce proof of posting of the entries, and if they can't satisfy the KC that it was all kosher, then they are likely to be disqualified, and so lose the CC.

Dawn R.

That does sound fishy!

If it was late to the point of not being able to be included in the catalogue.... well, there's late and then there's THAT late! 
If it was an entry not recieved then that's another point entirely.  As long as the exhibitor has a proof of posting there's nothing anyone can do.

I too think it sounds fishy but there's always the chance that it's perfectly innocent and one cannot condemn someone until all the facts are known.

I think a phone call to the KC is in order to find out your options and go from there. Don't be surprised if it costs you £35 to take it further though ;)

Debs

My proof of posting is when they get my entry the return the postcard that i sent with the entry so they must have received it.
If entry gets lost in the post how can the club return anything?

Peanuts

That wouldn't be acceptable to the KC as proof of posting, the only thing they will accept is a Proof of Posting form stamped by the Post Office with the date of sending.  They will also accept Recorded Deliver/Registered Delivery receipts which will show the dates.

A number of years ago the CC winner at Crufts in my breed did not appear in the catalogue, though the KC did discover and entry form.  The whole thing was put down to a printers error, but there was no problem as the owner had proof of postage.

When I send entries off I ask for a proof of posting form from the post office.  It shows the date a letter was sent to the address of whoever's taking the entries.  If the entries get lost in the post you can then prove that they've been sent.  This is one of the only things the KC will accept as proof of posting (along with a returned postcard as you say).  A cheque stub on it's own, for instance, is no longer considered valid proof of posting.

Debs

A.If an exhibitor turns up @ a show & their entries haven't been received the correct procedure is this

1.Fill out a new entry form & pay the fees
2.The dog is shown
3.The matter is then reported to the KC
4.The KC then contact the exhibitor for their proof of entry & it is only the KC that decides if any further action is taken

B.If the entry was sent on time & not received until after the catalogue has been printed this is what haapens
1.The dog is added to the class
2.The matter is then reported to the KC
3.The KC will then contact the exhibitor for proof of entry on/before the closing date

C.If the printer has missed the entry form entries this is what happens

1.The dog is etered in the class
2.The catalogue submitted to the KC is noted with"Printers Omission"(or similar wording)

D.If the secretary has received the entry & the forms have gone astray
then A applies
If in the first two examples the exhibitor does not have a POP from the PO(or recorded delivery receipt etc)then the award with be disqualified

If C happens no action is taken as it is not the exhibitors/shows fault

If D occurs then the KC will accept a cashed cheque & a signed receipt(on a postcard or similar)from the secretary as proof of entry

The show has to allow the exhibitor to compete & it the KC who take any action if they cannot show they have sent in an entry

Huh, wish I'd known that when I turned up at a show a few years back and they'd lost my entry - they just said 'no entry, sorry, you'll have to just go home again'. :-(

But, proof of posting does not mean proof of entry, one could easily have sent a empty envelope, got proof of postage, turned up on the day, saw there maybe wasn't much competition and then complain that they are not in the catalogue ;) Could'nt they?
I read in one of the dog papers that 'proof of postage' was being investigated as there seems to be an awful lot of it going about :rolleyes:

Of course it's open to abuse as is the secretary"losing"the entry after encashing the cheque !!! but these are the current KC rules, until they are all done online what other method is there ?

Moonmaiden is spot on with the thorough brakdown. Sending a postcard for the secreatary to return is not proof of posting, but lets you know that the entry has been received. If the entry has not been received the ONLY proof the KC will accept is proof of posting from the Post Office. The Secreatary MUST accept the entry on the day - the KC then sort it out. I once had an entry go astray, but had proof of posting - v v lucky as my dog won his 3rd CC that day.

Yes the KC are investigating as there are abuses. It seems to happen very regularly to some people. Innocent until proven guilty!

Last year one of my entries wasn't received. When I didn't receive my pass I telephoned the secretary who then told me to phone Fosse Data. They confirmed my entry had not been received but as long as I had Proof of Posting I could still attrend the show. I did attend the show and my dog won the RCC. The KC wrote to me and asked for the proof which I sent, the KC wrote back and confirmed everything was in order.
Not everything is suspicious.
Now I wouldn't have thought of sending an empty envelope

i understand what yu are all saying but it seems fishy , it seems it always happens to this person and they always seem to get the ticket that day aswell

by always how many times do you mean. You say they always get the ticket - well if the dog has that many maybe its a good dog??

They are the top breeders.

Yes they do have some nice dogs , but it is always a different dog that they bring.
And by the way they are not the top breeders this year according to the KC

Peanuts

I thought committee members couldn't exhibit at their shows, or am I getting mixed up with judges judging their own stock or something else?

Different clubs have different rules ... but you're right about judges not being allowed to judge dogs they've bred.

Some clubs won't allow their committee members to exhibit at shows.
It varys from club to club though, they do put it on the schedule if they
don't allow committee members to exhibit.

In minority breeds if the committee didn't show there would be poor entries, no committee or both, as often there is just the one reed club show.  At ours often others handle the dogs for them as they are usually on their duties on show days.