Hi there, just wondered if anyone could offer some advice, I recently sold a pup who had had a vet checkup with its first vaccination, which it passed with no problems at all, however, tonight the new owner rang saying he took the pup for a checkup next couply of days after he bought her, and again today for her 2nd jab and today the vet picked up a heart murmour which he got a second opinion on, it is graded at 1.5 - 2 on the scale. I would not have sold this pup if I had known and am upset about it, he says the vet reckons i should pay back some of the purchase price -  not sure wot to do - any advice greatfully appreciated, thanks.

Not sure what breed of pup (Golden Retriever?)
But in my breed Boxers we have a puppy handout sheet.

"It should be stressed that minor "flow" murmurs are commonly found in young in young Boxer puppies, as in other breeds, but most disappear by about 16 weeks of age. Even if they persist there may be no cause for alarm if they are quiet. Such genuine "flow" murmurs" are not associated with heart disease in the adult."

It might be worth waiting until the pup is 17 weeks and being retested by a cardiologist (vet that specialises in hearts).
Some veterinary surgeries have vets that do specialise in this subject without the need for referral.

Sorry to be rather cynical here but could he be trying to pull a fast one?  I'm not a breeder but think I would want to either talk directly to his vet (or maybe your vet talk to his vet) or have something from him/her in writing confirming the condition before making any decisions.

Too late to edit my earlier post but I'm still rather suspicious!  If I found out a new pup had a heart murmur, the last thing I would be thinking about would be trying to get a price reduction from the breeder and would a vet really suggest that?  I would want to talk to the breeder certainly but not to ask for a price reduction. :(

As the murmer was so indistinct as to go unnoticed at the first examination I do not think it reasonable to ask for compensation from you as you sold the puppy in good faith as to it's health at the time.  I think most peoples contracts stipulate that they have a set period of time for a puppy to be assessed by a vet and returned for a full refund if health problems found, does yours?
I do not think, once that test has been passed it is fair to hold a breeder responsible for any health issues that occur later, that would be the owner's misfortune.  The exception, of course, would be for any health issues arising where the breeder has not conformed to the relevent health screening recommended by their breed club for which the breeder would be responsible on a point of negligence.

Had exactly this with my flatcoat puppy. Apparently was vet checked fine at 1st vacc - but when I got him he had a heart murmur. I got him scanned by a specialist, he had a slight valve problem - and she said that murmurs can come and go in young puppies, sometimes will disappear and reappear. Had him rechecked at 16months old (it was going to be a repeat scan)- but his murmur had gone :D So it wasn't anything too serious. Can't help you with the money issue - I did think the breeder should have paid for the scan, but she didn't offer... I didn't think about money back from purchase price though - he was sold in good faith as healthy, parents had had proper health checks etc. Don't know if that helps or not. :)

Hi GG - to come from the other side - having bought a puppy that had a murmur picked up.  I contacted his breeder purely to let her know - not for money or returning but to keep her informed.  He was insured so he was scanned to see if any defect - this was paid for buy the insurance.  No major defects were present and we were told he could live a perfectly normal life.  The breeder offered to have him back but he was already a big part of the family so this wasn't the case and in no way did I ever expect to have a discount for him.

At 2 years of age whilst getting his hips scored the vet there listened to his heart nd the murmur was completely gone.  Both the breeder and I were very relieved to here this.  So murmurs in pups can disappear.  I'm surprised no mention of a scan has been suggested to see if there is a major defect.

So if this owner is a caring owner he should not be expecting money back - has the vet suggested a scan?

I hope this helps!

I think with the younger age pups have their vaccs means that more innocent murmurs are picked up.

I nearly had a fit (not considered a breed issue at all) when one of my 8 week old pups 6 1/2 years ago was found to have a slight murmur, but this had gone by second jabs.  This pup was the smallest in the litter and was just a bit behind the others in development.

I had a friend who sold a puppy to someone that had come through me.  They went for their first vacc and their Vet told them to take the puppy back immediately because it had a heart murmur.. They came with me to my Vet for a second opinion and he said that it was a flow murmur and that it would go, also if it had been his puppy it would be going nowhere as it was a super puppy.
Also a lady I sold a pup to, her previous dog had been diagnosed with a serious murmur at first vacc and the Vet said it would not live beyond 10 months. She was attached to the puppy and had no intention of taking it back to the breeder because she decided the puppy would have the best 10 months of life she could give it.  The 'puppy' died at 11 1/2 years of cancer. I believe some Vets can't tell the difference between a flow murmur and a defective valve.

we had a collie and it was picked up at teh 1st vaccination that he had a murmur, things were fine until about 6 months and we went to cheshire for a special scan and other tests, sadly 2 days later we had to have him PTS it devastated our family and the breeder just didn't want to know.  All in all that short time cost us over £3,000 in vets bills.

I have a girl who was diagnosed at her first vac with a heart murmur and then told it was  gone at the 2nd. She went in a few years later to have bladder stones removed and her murmur was still there,after all, and was graded at 1. She is now 10 and apart from having to watch that she doesn't overheat in the summer she is doing  well.

My vet told me that murmurs can be intermittent in pups and many simply vanish. My 3 month old pup has a murmur just now and the vet is confident that she will outgrow it. I am very surprised at what the vet said to this lady,if he did!!!

I'm not a breeder so to give my buyers point of view, the dog is either fit to keep and live with or not. Returning a dog due to a serious health problem is one thing, asking for money back seems like quite another to me. Like having your cake and eating it too. It wouldn't be something I would ask for. In your position I would give them your opinion regarding prognosis and ask if they want to keep it or have a full refund for return of the puppy. That would be more than fair to them and I'll guess that they choose to keep her.

I have to agree with what some other posters have said, I find it strange that some vets will pick up a murmur and others won't!! My conclusion is that the more experienced vet, (and the one not out to make a quick buck with unnecessary tests, which are usually covered by insurance) knows this is nothing more than a flow murmur which the majority of the time will disappear completely once the pup is older.

If the new owner can get back to you, I would insist on a second opinion from your own vet for a diagnosis, this is not to do with money return but to do with the fact that someone may be giving up a pup for no reason other than a little scare mongering from another practise, a vet saying this can put the fear of God into a new owner when it is completely unnecessary.

If these people live too far away, then agree to pay for a second opinion at another practice near them, (but not connected in any way to their own vet)

By the way a vet would never say that some money should be returned for a defective pup, they do not get involved in such things. As already stated insurance companies will generally pay for heart testing and proceedures.

Get that second opinion.

To be honest, if your breed does not regularly suffer from heart murmur's and if there was no previous family conditions it is not your fault, you also had a full vet check beforehand so IMO you need not return any money at all. But, if the new owners are not happy morally I would take the pup back and refund, you can always bring on the pup and once the murmur has cleared then sell the pup on, or find a new owner who is happy to wait for the future all clear.

I have never known a vet to "scare-monger".   I've mostly seen that on internet forums.

I have never known a vet to "scare-monger".

How about a Vet who told a new owner that his 10 week old puppy had a heart murmur and if he didn't have £1500s worth of open heart surgery immediately, then he wouldn't see his first birthday! :(  Luckily the people didn't panic as this was the 2nd puppy that they'd had from me.  I asked them to bring him to see my Vet, who said that he considered the pup to have a minimal murmur and that open heart surgery would be to sign his death warrant.  The owners changed their iwn Vet and took the puppy happily.  He was taken with them when they bought a bar in Spain, did 6 months quarantine when they came back, and lead a normal life with no veterinary attention until over 12 years old. :)

And another Vet who told the new owner that as his puppy wasn't clear for CEA, then she would go blind! :(  I rang him as said that I didn't remember seeing his name on the list of Veterinary Opthalmologists and the Opthalmologist who had tested the litter rang him to put him straight! ;)

Just two personal examples of Vets who have frightened new pet owners who didn't know any different. :(

I have never known a vet to "scare-monger".

I have. Several times. Which is the reason for why I point blank refuse to see any but the two vets I know really well at the practice I go to -they've earned my trust. Some examples:

"This cat has disease x. It is very, very contagious and ALL your cats are going to die now." Said at midnight to me when  was heavily pregnant and vulnerable. It wasn't until later I found the disease was NOT contagious at all, and indeed 7 years on I still have some of the cats I had then! Because no more died at all.

"This puppy must be seen by an eye specialist immediately or he is going to lose his eye." My normal vet sorted him out at a fraction of the cost suggested and the dog is now adult and fine.

"If you insist on selling your kittens aged 13 weeks they will never be able to settle into new homes, they must be no older than 8 weeks." I politely pointed out I'd been breeding for many years and followed cat fancy rules  as when to sell and had NEVER had a problem......

I could go on........

I haven't.  In my experience they tend to give you several scenarios, worst case and best.  The trouble with hearsay is, people sometimes only remember and pass on the bits that impacted on them the most and if people are taking issues back to a breeder I think they have an additional incentive to "big it up".  Not saying a vet ever makes a professional judgement, of matters that are quite subjective, wide of the mark but I don't believe it happens that often and I don't believe it is done for purposes of scaremongering or mischief making whereas this is something we definately see on the internet, as many of us will have seen very recently!

>I have never known a vet to "scare-monger".   I've mostly seen that on internet forums.

Really ?

The young Spanish vet who saw my BC puppy @ 15 weeks told me if I didn't have him castrated immediately he would die from cancer in the retained testicle !!! not "might" but  "would" Well he might have done if the testicle had not permanently descended within a couple months when he had finished teething but @: 15 weeks ! Yer right ! If that isn't scare mongering I don't know what is. I'm not that gullible & his boss who over heard him quickly put him right-his boss & I still laugh over my BC's bouncing balls & no I didn't just select what i remember(I forgave him as he is so nice to look at ;) )

One of my  experiences was also with  a young Spanish vet LOL. And just like you MM, the scenarios I related were experienced by me personally so not told to me by somebody else.

Was he good looking though LOL I also forgave him because he saved my friend's dog's life when he had a torsion & he did apologise so nicely ;)

Weellllllll.........not as good looking as one of my usual vets!

By the way, talking about scaremongering........ Now years ago I worked as a vet nurse so again I know the following is 100 % true as I was there when it happened -and it was more than once as well. The vet I worked for used to tell dog owners that dog breeders DELIBERATELY produced puppies with health problems so they would not live very long, as that way they'd get to sell more puppies!!!!! :rolleyes:

Perhaps that is how he felt about the local output certainly my old vet used to comment on a particular "enthusiatist" breeder in our neck of the woods and I could not disagree with him.

No it was in general. In a country where there (then) were no such thing as puppy farms. These were show breeders that did all health testing and lived with a small number of dogs kept mainly as pets.  I.e. just the sort of breeder you'd want.

I had exactly the same thing with a pup I sold except that the vet was Scottish not Spanish. The new owner was very reluctant to believe me but the testicle did come down (my own vet had felt it in the canal before the pup left and was sure it would drop).

Then the same vet decided that the puppy MUST have his anal glands removed at 5 months after emptying them one time. This time the owner would not listen to my 'leave well alone' advice, and in the end I even paid for the surgery as the vet had told the owner that I'd sold her an 'abnormal' puppy!

Really, MM, I haven't.  Is there any chance that as your vet was Spanish, his English was not quite good enough to make the subtle  (linguistic) distinction between might and would?

And I don't really consider pointing out what might happen or might be the case to be "scare-mongering" - it's giving people information. 

And we can all be wise after the event.

He has excellent english as I asked him "don't you mean might" & his reply was "no the one that hasn't come down will develop cancerous cells in the next few months" Fortunately his boss heard our "duscussion"& corrected him(very politely)& told him I proabably knew more about puppy dog "balls"that he(the spanish vet)did

The very young scottish vet(also v good looking & a kilt wearer ;)) who did his rabies jab never suggested castration & he too did a full health check(as one would expect)before giving the vax He did ask me if they had both been down(which they had)& we had a smile at Rjj's yoyoing manhood.

It is not the practice's usual recommendation to castrate before 6 months BTW my vet(The lovely John)who took his titre bloods for me @ 13 weeks booked him in for his dewclap(rear-& yes they should have been taken off under @ a couple of days old-but there is a good reason that they weren't & I knew about it well before his breeder gave(yes gave)him to me)removal when he was 7 months as they don't like operating on young puppies unless it is absolutely necessary & he never even bothered to check Rjj's testicles as he knows me & that I would check them regularly & that male puppies often have bouncing ones !

Just think if I had been a novice/first time owner I would have gone away terrified my new puppy was going to have a major operation(even though others on here consider it to be a minor one it isn't )otherwise he would get cancer Sorry that is scaremongering The vet didn't know anything about me as Rjj had only been to the vets for Titre bloods & a first vax & at our practice they only view the animals records not the owners when recording treatments. His advice/information should have been to check them when he had finished teething & in fact that is what he now does He doesn't mention the C word & notes the puppies records for a check up. It is almost unknown for a dog under 12 months to develop cancer in an undescended testicle BTW(he saw a young GSD from our club that also had yoyo balls & who now also has two correctly positioned ones !)

MM, I would call that a straightforward mistake made by a young professional.  To me, the pejorative "scare-mongering" suggests evil intention or an unbalanced character who takes pleasure in spreading frightening rumours.  I think we will have to agree to differ, in order not to hijack the thread further.  (Good grief, that's 3 times I've had to consult the dictionary in one post! :-D)

Well he had previously scared the pants off a first time dog owner by saying the self same this & telling someone something that is blatantly not true in order to get them to castrate their dog & therefore he was acting as a scaremonger

BTW I found this

> Scaremongering is a neologism referring to statements aiming for a scaring effect

Was he scaremongering ?
QED he made a statement aimed at scaring the puppy owner into having an unnecessary operation on their dog ! Ergo he was acting as a scaremonger !

Is this puppy related to the one you had in 2005 that had a heart murmur at the same age

We had a pup at 8 weeks old from the breeder and at his first check, nothing was noticed. On second check at 11 weeks, the vet heard a murmur and in fact our little Milo had a condition called tetralogy of Fallot. Very rare but very real too. So it is possible there's a murmur I guess. We had it checked at the R Vet College in the end.

hi, no different parents completely, and the other puppy you mentioned, is thriving with no problems at all. living life to the full and spoilt rotten.
These new owners have said they are taking her back to their vet at 12 weeks old to get her re-checked and would call me then.
Their initial email (after their call) said that it was graded 1.5-2 murmur and could have a financial impact on them from this early age, their vet apparantely said they should ask for money back!
my contract states: (in shortened words here) take to your vet for check within 5 days, if they find a reason which in their opinion renders pup unfit for sale, return to me within 7 days for full refund.
they took her to their vet in the time, but the murmur was missed then, it was only on her 2nd visit they picked it up, they say they have grown attached to her, i really dont know wot to do if its still there when she goes back soon, after all , they could have brought her back at the time for full refund, but now is taking the pee somewot  - dont you agree?:rolleyes:

Personally I believe you will always have a problem if the Vet is talking in this manner. If you look at the grading system, a Grade 1 murmur is barely detectable and the scale is 1 - 6.  You may be better off taking this pup back and having it checked correctly by a heart specialist. Or offering to pay for this pup to be heart tested by a specialist. They can tell you exactly what  (if any) the problems are.  The problem with the new owners Vet is that if he is saying take the pup back and get your money back, I would put money on him 'finding' the murmur is still there. I know I am being cynical here but I have seen people with pups that have the same problem and they have either taken the pup back and had it checked then rehomed it or the owners of the pup has changed their Vets.
My friends' 3 year old bitch has had a heart murmur since birth (I will find out what the Grade is) and not only is she absolutely tip top fit, but she has just been spayed and my friend couldn't believe just how well she was after the anaesthetic.

Come in a bit late on this one but my first reaction would be can you 100% say that their vet said 'I would be asking for some money back'?  Further up in the replies there is a note to say that people pick up on what they find most important or more moving to them.  I would add to that and then embroider and stretch the words repeating them so often they begin to believe it.

Most of our contracts say take your puppy to the vet within 7 days for a health check - if problem found return the puppy if you wish for a full refund.  I think the key is full refund and return puppy.  I would be asking for a report from their vet at this stage.

I don't know about your contract but mine goes on to say that if the puppy is returned after that time it will be cared for and a new home found giving any monies made from a second sale, after taking into account out of pocket expenses, to the original purchaser. 

In this case it is not cut and dried as if the vet did not say what he is quoted to have said and is looking after the pup's interests and that of his customers then it would possibly be a case where a further exam by their vet would be merited.

My contact goes on to say that any returned pup (returned for medical reasons) will be examined by my vet and referred to a specialist if necessary for the final diagnosis of any medical condition.  If at this point the puppy is ill then I would be taking it back with no further query at 12 weeks and give a full refund.  As long as I had a full medical report from their vet.

If they decide to keep the puppy longer than this because they are attached and then return it to you - you would then be entitled to take any expenses out of the proceeds of sale of said puppy to a second buyer, which would be highly unlikely as I expect you would keep the puppy yourself, giving any money left to the original purchaser.

What I am trying to say that if after the 12 week exam they still want to hold onto the puppy but also want a discount set out in writing again what you are prepared to do at this point and send it recorded delivery.  If you take the puppy back after this point all vet bills, specialist bills, food etc become legitimate expenses (if incurred by you) and can be set against the original purchase price.

If you don't give them exact guide lines at this point they may be able to invoke the sale of goods act, although I don't know how successful they would be. 

This must be a heart wrenching time for you and reading between the lines it may be for them but they just don't know how to handle it.

Just re-read your update, it is getting ridiculous! Do not give them any monetary return at all if they wish to keep the pup, no vet can say at this early stage whether the pup is going to cost any money at all for treatments this murmur may stay for anything  upto 6 months before completely disappearing, you don't need the pressure or the worry and you really are not liable for paying out any expenses they must return the pup to you now for a full refund, (even though it is over the contractiaral time limit)  or keep the pup themselves and if this should turn out not to be a flow murmur and something more serious they will have to do as all others with dogs with heart murmurs do and pay out the expenses, (if not covered by insurance) themselves. None of us go running back to the breeder years on because our dogs have heart murmurs expecting them to pay for treatments.

You have done as all breeders do and offered a full refund if a defect should be found, I would still give a full refund at this stage but if they choose not to return the pup to you now for a refund, then so be it, that is their choice and they need not bother you anymore with the money side of things, by all means as the breeder you need to stay in touch and see how the pup is, but it is not your responsibility if they choose to keep the pup to pay out anything now of any sorts.

Make this clear, it is their choice and they need to decide what they wish to do. 

I truly believe if there is no histroy that this pup will be absolutely fine, a grade 1-2 murmur does not cause a pup or dog to have any lesser life than any other dog at all. I am pretty sure they will be reporting it dropping to a 1 over the next few weeks/months anyway.

But above all else you are not financially responsible.

Quick update.  Have spoken to my friend.  She was told almost word for word that the pup had a significant heart murmur and she should take it back to the breeder and get her money back as it would cost her financially through the pups life.  Changed her Vet, was told there is a heart murmur about 1-2 and not to worry.  Has since had the bitch spayed with no problems. Only needs the Vet for innoculations and if she ever has a bad tummy or the like. Has now got a dog from me and they play very rough with each other so the bitch does not lead a sedentary lifestyle. Is very glad that she didn't take the advice of the first Vet as she wouldn't be without her.!

Wot a lot of rot!!
Boxers with grade 1.5-2 murmurs don't have medication...they have normal life expectancy..
Infact the only reccomendation is that they AREN'T bred from for obvious reasons (passing problem on etc)
They should have pup checked at 16 weeks old as thats when MOST innocent puppy flow murmers disappear.

The reason no puppies can be heart-scored is because murmurs come and go throughout the first 12 months of a dog's life.  Even when tested at 12 months a grade 1 or 2 murmur may still be present and the cardiologist's advice is always to have the dog re-tested in about 6 months time, by which time the murmur may have disappeared or reduced.

At any rate a grade 1 murmur is classed as insignificant in an adult dog.  A grade 1 to 1.5 murmur in an 8-week old puppy would have a good chance of disappearing completely by the time the pup is 12 months old.  Also, unless the vet concerned is a cardiologist with the relevent qualification to score hearts, his estimation of the grade of murmur cannot be taken as in any way accurate.

pja

You are absolutely right pja, a vet can not do an accurate scoring and they are completely wrong to grade themselves, or even say what type of heart murmur it is.

I am becoming totally disillusioned with some vets practises lately when it comes to heart murmurs and am almost cynically expecting a pup from my next litter to be reported back with a heart murmur,:rolleyes: it is almost putting me off selling any future pups in certain area's of the country.

I have been hearing from many breeding acquaintances who have used the same studs and bitches for years for breeding and always produced good healthy pups with many champs, who are now getting the odd 'puppy heart murmur' being reported back as I said in my first post, an experienced vet is worth their weight in gold, like in all trades money talks and some practices do do unnecessary tests, everyone is out to make a living and this does not always go hand in hand with common sense. Give me the 60 year old country vet anytime, he may be poorer but more likely to know his stuff. :-D

>some practices do do unnecessary tests

This is a downside to pet insurance. If the vet knows the animal's insured and the insurance will pay up, they do any tests they feel might be relevant. If the animal's not insured and it's down to the owner's ability to pay they tend to be more circumspect. And, of course, the more insurance companies pay out, the more they charge everyone in premiums. They're in business too!

;-) Money makes the world go round, world go round....................... but it always hits the little people's pockets. :-)

to Carrington

I think you misunderstood my reply.  I only said that a breeder would be responsible for paying expenses for a puppy which was returned to them.  I should have added, when it was again in their possession ie. the breeder - just as any pup would receive veterinary treatment when back with the breeder.  Of course the new owner (whos vet thinks there may be a problem) is responsible for any fees they pay before this event.  I hope that makes the position clearer.

Any one who breeds a litter is likely to get hit in the pocket.  It is only when you get to breeding monumental amounts of puppies that you start to make money.  (please don't put me in that bracket, I have only bred 4 litters) and I have to pay for help with rearing and showing my dogs.

Case in point :-I have had a pup with a heart murmur, or so my co owner was told by one vet.  When taken to another vet there was no murmur, to the specialist - no murmur.  After all this taken into account the amount I had paid out just about covered the cost of the puppy so, nothing left of original purchaser price if then sold on and surprise surprise no report from vet one.  Makes interesting reading doesn't it. 

At 12 weeks it is stll covered by Kennel Club insurance isnt it.  All mine are.

Hi echo, no need to explain your post, I was actually replying to goldiegirl's update, not your post,  I must have pressed reply on your post instead, but your second post just goes to show what I am feeling that many puppy owners are being taken advantage of at having unnecessary tests done, I think we breeders need to make sure that we either get these pups back or convince the new owners to get second opinions or go to our own vets, as I dare say many breeders are paying out for these tests out of good moral and good name. It is definitely becoming very frequent in some area's, insurance companies, breeders and new owners are being taken advantage of by some practises, as I said I am almost expecting it!!!

Hi again, thanks for your replies, update is: new owner is taking her back for another check-up and she has said that she will let me know the outcome, but as they will have an £80 escess per year for treatment they feel they shouldhave some kind of compensation / contribution, i really feel this is unfair, i will offer once more to refund the money and take the pup back but other than that i'm afraid it was clear when it left me so it is their responsilbily (by the way, these people came for a male and left with a female after changing their mind!) people like this make me so mad, i mean, i bought a six month old bitch, had her hips duly scored which were 56, i didn't go back to the breeder and complain, i mean honestly.  Watch this space for updates!!!!

but as they will have an £80 escess per year for treatment they feel they shouldhave some kind of compensation / contribution, i really feel this is unfair,

What!!!

Good Girl, what poppycock, how could they possibly know they will even have to pay out one penny for any treatment whatsoever, they sound like a couple of gold diggers, (imagine you returning funds to then find out in the future it was a complete faulse alarm) I'm afraid I would just feel like getting my pup back and finding her a home with people who loved her and did not constantly think of the money she may cost.

I'll be watching this space with interest. ;-)

I suppose then that they will also want the difference in cost against
insurance when they have to pay out £80 or 15% of claim which ever is greater..
So they have no cost to bear at all. (Sounds so much like 'cake and eat it')

Crikey when you buy a dog you accept that sometimes you can get out of the ordinary vet bills.
Perhaps your dog will get a lifelong illness but that's why you insure (or not and
you 'find' the money somehow)?. Isn't it part and parcel of owning any animal that you accept responsibility
for the new member of the family and that includes any expenditure as it arises..regardless of 'blame' or
accountability.

I've had some pretty whopping vet bills - but I have never gone back to the breeder and asked for some
'compensation'. If you 'compensate' aren't you admitting 'fault'/blame? (where there's blame there's a claim culture??)
Hmmm I'd be tempted to wait and see what the specialist has to say. Can you be there as well when the verdict is given? That way you know beyond shadow of a doubt what is said and what they truly think of prognosis etc.
If the first vet's assumption/diagnosis is wrong perhaps they'd like to claim the costs of the subsequent specialist visit from him instead?
(Can predict that they'd probably be told 'go forth and...')

I too will be watching with interest & sincerely hope that pup does get clean bill of health!

My Yankee got a cherry eye at less than 6 months - I did notify the breeder as it can be genetic, but it never in a million years would have occured to me to ask for money back!!! It's something the breed can be prone to, and I was aware of it, and that's the end of the story.

I once sold a 6-month old pup that I had run on for showing.  His heart had been fine with me, but within a week I had a phone call that the new owner's vet had found a bad heart murmur and the pup was unlikely to last a year.  They had already given him an ECG for £200(useless for identifying murmurs, but probably had to get as much return as possible out of an expensive machine), and found his heart was very bad indeed.  They had taken advice apparently and he would now need to be on drugs for the rest of his (short) life. 

I asked to take him back, but the owners did not want to part with him, so I made an appointment with a reputable cardiologist in their area and said I would pay all the bills.  Guess what - the cardiologist found no sign of any murmur at all.  A fit and healthy puppy who is still alive now at nearly 10.

pja

UPDATE - I contacted the new owners and said that they were obviously unhappy with the pup and that i thought they should return her to me within 7 days for a full refund, if however, they decline this offer, then there will be no form of offer either now or in the future - they emailed back same night to say thanks they appreicated the offer, but they all love her and dont want to part with her, they understand my position but wont be bringing her back, but will keep me informed of her progress. a good result all round i think. thanks all for your valued comments, nice to know i'm not alone in times like these. once again thanks all.

Very pleased that they have seen sense, no doubt this time next year the pup will be given a complete all clear, :rolleyes: and hopefully they will realise they have been unnecessarily upset.

Now you can relax and look forward to photo updates and your normal breeder advice on your growing pup.