I'm asking on behalf of a friend so I am trusting some one can help please.
Okay First Question(s)
Fish - she has been given a quantity of 'whole' fish and wants to give them to her GSD. Does she give them whole? (including head/bones ) Or does she have to gut them? Its white fish but what I do not know.

2nd Question
She has a year old king charles. At the moment she is feeding 4 chicken wings per day. He usually eats 3 then hides the 3rd for later. He isn't thin, in fact a bit on the 'bigger' size, but he is always scrounging for food. Is she feeding enough (I'm no good at small dog quantities) I've suggested she splits his meals into two instead of one, but this would make two chicken wings per meal, would that be enough?

Any help/suggestions would be appreciated please :)

Dee

Fish - I feed whole fish with nowt taken owt - and also feed tinned sardines and pilchards.

Are the chicken wings the only food he is getting or does he get other meat as well?

As far as I know, the wings are given as a meal, nothing else added.
Does she have to descale the fish?

Chicken wings should only be fed as part of a mixture of foods - as a sole food they're not a balanced diet and are likely to lead to health problems due to dietary imbalance and insuffiency of various vitamins and minerals. I suggest she does a lot more research into nutrition if she's going to go down the raw feeding route.

She's new to all this :)
I have given some raw diet links, if you know of some good ones I will pass them on.
the reason she is now feeding 'raw' is because her dogs were very picky but now they love mealtimes. I'm trying to put her on the right path, which is why I have asked for advice. The main concern, apart from the fish question, is what is the amount to feed a small dog ?
I've searched for the percentages and can't find it.

Dee

The fish is fed scales, bones, head and innards all in tact - some dogs take a while to get used to whole fish and others take to it straight away.

Chicken wings would only be a small part of a raw diet if that is the type of diet she is following for her dog. If she is only feeding chicken wings as the sole source of his food he will end up with health problems and runs the serious risk of bone impaction. I only feed chicken wings a couple of times a week as they have a fairly high bone to meat ratio.

I feed my dog raw but it is something you really have  to research well before starting this type of diet - you need to feed a variety of different meats from different animal sources and the bone part of the diet is fairly small in relation to the other things you feed - such as muscle meat and offal.

Unlike feeding kibble which is a complete food in itself you have to ensure that you are feeding a balanced and varied diet in order to ensure that your dog is receiving all the nutritional elements required in order to keep it healthy - and the proportions of type of meat fed have to be balanced as well.

If she wishes to feed raw she really does have to research it first. If she is feeding the chicken wings to give her dog clean healthy teeth ( and feeding complete food as the main diet) then I personally would think that a chicken wing a couple of times a week would be plenty. We have a GR and he would normally only get two chicken wings ( along with other meat) at any one meal and I would only feed these two maybe three meals a week out of the fourteen meals he has over the course of a week.

I hope that helps. :)

Thanks Harley
Yes I only feed chicken wings to my two a few times a week, but its not part of their raw meal, more of a 'treat' they are big dogs and as lamb  or beef bones don't agree with them (intolerant to red meat) the only bones they get are chicken :rolleyes: and the liver etc has to be from a pig. :)
I hadn't spoken to her in ages, until last night, and although she feeds her GSD more or less the same as I feed my Leos, it appears the little 'un has wings as a main meal. I just didn't think it was enough, but have just remembered she said he won't eat raw meat :rolleyes: doesn't like kibble of any flavour, so I did suggest that she boil the chicken for him. Thats where I came unstuck because she asked how much in quantity with the wings and I didn't know.
I've just looked and found a 'percentage' thread from last year, and at a more reasonable time will look at it properly ;)
In the meantime, thank you again, its much appreciated :)

Dee

Hi Missie

The general rule for how much raw to feed is 2-3% of the dog's body weight per day for an adult dog, or 10% for a puppy.

HTH :)

>so I did suggest that she boil the chicken for him.

If the chicken wings are boiled she mustn't feed the bones as well - she must strip the meat from them and only feed the meat.

Seriously Hon..... there needs to be some thought put into this.
It worries me :(
Im off to Discover Dogs Earls court now, but when I get back Ive got some good sound 'cooked' recipes/menu's we can have a chat about (used by my family since G,G great grandfather in the cold months back home (I'll leave out the Reindeer blood ;) ), and confirmed by others in my breed who 'cook' so all tried and tested) *if* indeed that proves the way to go.
(your not in the Highlands yet ;) )
Liv x

Darn it..
sorry Im rushin and not reading properly!
Cant help with the little un...no experience of little uns try Linda just looked her up on my web ring thing for raw,know she's happy to help,I know she's very sensible and very approachable.
HTH :D

Hi Liv
Do you fancy putting them up on a thread?   I'm sure other people would be interested.  Could maybe put up a request not to make it a commercial vs home diet?
Carina

PS Have fun at Earls Court.

Hi JG, no I didn't mean cook the wings, I know all about splintered cooked bones, I meant as he wouldn't eat the chicken mince raw, that she could try cooking it :) Sorry :)

She has no problem feeding the GSD as he is limited to what he can have and we both feed the same diet to our EPI dogs, so yes she should know how to feed, what the ratio is etc but I think she has just got sidetracked and thought in her naivity(sp), that as the spaniel was smaller he wouldn't need the same BUT now she knows different :)
I don't want a commercial v home diet, we feed raw. Just wanted info on how much etc and having never fed whole fish needed to know about that for her. (The fish mine eat is already minced ;) )
Thanks Liv, that would be appreciated and thanks to those who have sent me some links.

Dee

My misunderstanding! Cooked chicken mince is fine! :)

No problem ;)

Ahem, small problem :rolleyes: as I'm absolutely rubbish at maths, if your dog weighs say 58 kilos, what is 2 - 3 per cent of this? The nearest I work it out to be is 2 kilos?     nah, can't be right?
Is that per meal or per day?
I understand that the 'veg' amount should be no more than 10% of the meal, but to be honest most of it is guess work now. And I do tend to go with what the dogs want/need quantity wise ;) And I make sure their diet is balanced to the best of my knowledge with what I have read on here and the links.

Anyway, back to friends dog. (he's a year old cav)
10% for a puppy           until what age? Does that depend on the breed as to what age to change the % ?

I am looking at the links, honest :)

2% of 58 kilos is 1.16 kilos (58 divided by 100 then multiplied by 2). 3% of 58k is 1.74k. Mind you, 58 kilos is a very big dog - the size of a bullmastiff!

That would be per day. :)

Ah, so me feeding 3lbs of meat per day (1 and a half per meal) is fine then. Thanks :)

Back in the old pre-metrification days ;) the rule of thumb was half an ounce of food (equal quantity of meat and biscuits) per pound bodyweight for adults; puppies got three-quarters of an ounce per pound. :)

If I can jump in late here, about nine years ago I had a young Cavalier who was recommended to be fed on chicken wings only by a homeopathic vet as he had various problems. The problems cleared and I didn't keep it up for longer (perhaps a year in total, can't quite remember) as I very much have a dead bird phobia -can't even walk past all those dead "budgies and cockatiels" (in my eyes!!) in ASDA. Also it made his poo stink like sour milk. But anyway, that Cavalier got ONE chicken wing twice a day and he became WAY too fat on that amount.

58 kilos is one of my leos'  :P :P (she was 68 at one point but has been on a 'diet' and is now at the rightish weight for her size and frame)

I have passed all the info on and she asked me to thank you all for your time and for the links. Thanks :)

Speaking of changing the dogs diet I thought I might try to give my dogs a healthier diet but I am going to do it over some time so that I can monitor weight etc.  I have got a couple of books that people have said are good and have been on several web sites (doing my research). 

I would be really grateful if anyone has any recipes that their dogs really enjoy. 

Missie this link gives good step by step directions http://www.rawdogranch.com ,the site owner is happy to answer questions.
The cav is probably scavenging because he isnt satisfied,just wings would not be supplying nearly all the nutrients he needs so he's trying to find them by any means possible,not to mention the boredom factor,feeding a raw diet is all about variety,and chicken wings for every meal is certainly not providing that!

I think your friend is a  perfect example of why some vets dont recommend raw diets,too many pet owners think that by tossing their dog a bone their feeding a "raw diet" :rolleyes:

PS. with the fish,my personal preference would be to de-scale.I would also highly recommend taking the fins off before feeding(or are whitefish those tiny little suckers??),as they can be as sharp as needles and could do a lot of damage to the gut and going down.

I have cavies and they are scroungers anyway.  I would think they might be craving some of the things they are missing in they're diet.  As Jeangenie says, the wings are a supplement, not a complete food.

Try getting your friend to mix the wings in with some kibble (I use Wainwrights - they love it, most of the time, until they see me with something a little  more interesting! :rolleyes:).  that way they might be a little more fulfilled!