Extract from Martin's money mutterings:-

"Many disastrously lost their Christmas savings when hamper scheme Farepak went bust. A fortnight ago, I suggested anyone who paid on a Visa debit card try to claim refunds from Farepak's bank Farepak itself as it has no money) through the little known 'chargeback' system. Wonderfully, the first two success reports have come in, with one person being told £1,100 will be in her account in December. It's not guaranteed, but give it a go."

For more information go to http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=283181

Margot

Feel so sorry for those people who have lost a lot of money from this, i heard on the radio this morning that many of the familys are turning to loan sharks as they have no money for christmas, ive been saving with park so i thank my lucky stars.

I'm sorry for anyone who loses money when companies collapse, like the people who lose their pensions because the money's invested in them; they just have to accept it.

Far, far better to save into a building society etc until these schemes are regulated. You would also get some interest. Hopefully Parliament will do something now to either regulate or stop these schemes :(

Daisy

Or even save with the big stores like asdas or iceland with their £1 stamps and get one or two extra stamps free, and the food is cheaper than the hamper people.

I do so agree.   But there are families, who are just about off the breadline, who have always saved for Christmas like this ......it's not something I'd do - you have to be organised enough to do it for a start :D - but these are people who generally still live with cash!

Margot

I know its not very nice but TBH I have little sympathy, I mean whynot just save in a bank account or a jar in the cupboard?? I heard one woman on the radio yesterday who said she was on a minimum wage/breadline, yet she had lost £2000  Who the heck spends that sort of money for Christmas????? They must be mad

Hi

Must admit we have been talking about this alot at work. Some of the girls have got vouchers from a different company but they allmost did farpack as one of them has a friend who is a agent. Her customers alone have lost over £10000. They have all decided they wont be doing it again. if one can go bust so can another and they are not risking it.

On the telly the other night a single mum of 5 was saying how she lost £4000 and she is on Benefits so xmas is ruined. I was shocked I would never even if I had the money spend that much on my kids. Some one with a baby a couple of months old saying how its first xmas has been ruined. Sorry the baby wont know any different from any other day and doesnt even need a pressie. I do have a lot of sympathy for the genuine cases but some of them are over the top.

Wendy

I agree Sam.  I would never have consider these schemes an option even in my very hard up days.  Most of the supermarkets have clubs where you can save with stamps each week AND give you extra for using them as opposed to these clubs who pay agents' commission and given you less value than you pay in. :(

I did the high street vouchers last year and they are a real help at xmas. You cant judge people's motives for wanting to save money - it should be applauded that they are saving money up front rather than buying things on credit. I have put money away each week and unless you have a lot of willpower it is difficult to put money away each week knowing it is there for the taking. If it is in some one elses hands you cannot borrow from it!

I have lots of sympathy for these people and Ive heard the lottery are going to get involved! :)

I agree what others have said about supermarket savings stamps etc, I always find that alot of the things in hampers are things you never normally buy anyway.  Another thing is to put your money in isa or even do the mutual aid at the post office.

Spending £2000 on christmas is absolutely ludicrous.    As much as I love christmas I hate the way alot of children nowadays arent interested in having a fun family day, instead sit playing on the latest xbox, psp etc.  I loved christmas day as a child we would have dinner, watch TOTP, have a nap, then play board games no tv on just good family fun with other relatives visiting later on.  I know someone who spends £500 on each of her children aged 6 and 9 and they still moan they are bored.

I listened to that report on the radio this morning and found it terribly sad that they concentrated on the loan shark issue instead of pointing out that we do not "pay for Christmas" as one poor victim of this collapse said.  Christmas is a gift from God.  Choosing to spend lots of money celebrating it is a human idea and the anniversary will come each year for us to be thankful for whether we think we need to "buy" it or not.
What has come of it that hard up people feel they must spend thousands of pounds on their children to ensure they love them

Yep, agree entirely! :D

We've had many a happy baked bean Christmas in the past and had a ball! :)

I just don't understand why they are jumping in to bail this company out - when thousands of folk get made redundant in the run up to xmas but they don't get help from the big guns and offers from MP's to donate their wages!

I don't mean to sound uncharitable, but M&S, Sainsbury and Tesco are only doing it as a PR exercise and the sad fact is that trusting a private company with your hard earned cash is a big risk - especially in todays economic climate!

I agree 100% Chloe. When any other firm goes bust the employees and creditors just have to lump it - nobody comes to bail them out. Why should this one be any different?

Because its massively high profile and hits mums and kids at christmas, If I didnt know better I'd sat Bliar organised it all as a distraction from War, Bush, Brown, Interest rate rises, climate taxes and sneaky council tax charges.

Ah, the sweet sound of a fellow cynic/realist! My work here is done ........ :D

LOL. Going to change my name to CynicH :D

I have three autistic children and receive very little support because I am one of those deemed to cope :rolleyes: but I don't begrudge the support that other families might receive. In the same way that I would not wish these families to be left high and dry because others have lost out in past. Must say I am quite shocked by some of the comments.
Eavie

I think the comments are fair - there are many, many families every day who lose out on wages, pensions etc due to companies going into liquidation - they get no help whatsoever, apart from benefits, if they are entitled to them. I don't see why the Farepak people should get any help other than any payment due from the liquidator. After all, this money is spare money not needed for day to day living. Other people have lost the money they need to pay for essentials.

Daisy

Quite. When my dad was made redundant after 31 YEARS at his company he had to fight them in court to get £3K in redundancy. There was no help for him then... and these Farepak payments were by choice - made to a private company. I'm not saying I don't sympathise - I just wonder why this is any different from anyone else who is suffering financially through a company going bust :(

sorry forgot, how many wrongs is it that makes a right?
Maybe just maybe people are moved by the scale and seasonal timing of the problem?
Eavie
ps note to self must never give to charity again because bad things happen!!!

:)

Singling out one lot for special treatment only rubs salt into the wounds of the others who don't get it. There's been a singular lack of interest in the collapse of a West Country printing firm which went under owing staff around £10,000 each. No suggestion of MPs having a whip-round there ....

Is it not always the same though? how many dipped into their pockets for the tsunami on boxing day , it was close to a special time of the year. I genuinely believe if it had been earlier in the year the money raised would have been so much smaller.  The indian earth quake was also devastating but so much less % wise was raised. 

Peoples heart strings are pulled in different ways by different situations, different reasons including time of the year.  :-))

I would never myself do these type of saving schemes but both my mum and sister have done it for years because it is a freind of their's who is the agent. I think it was out of sympathy to her :-))

There has been hundreds of companies lately shut without paying out for sure.

One of my best freinds and I both have good incomes coming into our families but for a couple of years we have always had a little Xmas scheme going of our own, we pay £250 each an account by standing order for 10 months of the year.  We don't miss it from month to month but it is great at Xmas time to have it. Don't get me wrong I am not saying I spend this kind of money on Xmas presents but my husband and I always think up something decent to buy in the January sales and during this period we have time to browse the shops on our feet :-) I think last year we bought a new TV. We would have probably bought it at any time of the year but we just enjoy our little scheme.  We tend to take in a few shows over this period also so it is always nice to have that bit extra to spend. :-) if you do 2 or 3 shows getting it can be as much as £120 per show.

Go Eavie...I'm with you, too many people find it easy to judge the way others choose to live thier lives with the means they have. Unless you have been there (as a grown up trying to cope), then how can you judge?
I have  been close but not for long, and I know others who are there managing on a hard cash wage. with weekly juggling.
I for one am grateful not to be there.

It's not judging the way people choose to live their lives. ;) But the emphasis is on the word choose. It was their own choice to give their money to an account with a non-financial institution. I'm sorry for them, but companies go bust every day, and the creditors take their turn to see what can be salvaged for them - the usual rate is they get back 10p out of every £1 if they're lucky. Why should the creditors of this company be treated any different to the creditors of any other? Fair treatment for everyone!

Yes, I do agree, but for some the tally man still comes a knocking...It really is the all they know how to do.
It is so easy for us to be wise, but the fact is some people just cant see to do it any other way.
Add the couple of dependent children then they will be snatching at the straws offered.
It is bad luck for them.  I know of other folk here who use local pubs for 'Christmas/ thrift club savings' . almost every year somebody runs off with the money...but still people prefer these methods! :rolleyes:
Karen

As Daisy points out, they have not lost their income they have lost the extra money they were planning on spending for extras at Christmas....astonishing amounts in some case   I agree it is a shame that these people don't appreciate there are far better ways to save but perhaps taking the opportunity to spread a more savvy understanding of saving would be of greater value to them than a handout for this particular year that they have found themself short.  Although best of all would be an appreciation of the total waste of such excess :)

I'd guess we are all pretty much in agreement here. The problem is when a judgemental lack of compassion starts to creep in. I get offended for the hard done by (beit their own doing or not). It's my nature to look for the other side, far too emotional by half. I so need a dose of common sense I know! :-)

My husband (like others on here) lost his job, after over 20 years service, with no notice (10 minutes to clear his desk). He also lost virtually all his pension and only received the legal minimum redundancy. He was left, at nearly 50, with little chance to get another job in his industry. He received nothing else - no MPs had a whip round for him. Why should they ??? He, like others in his firm, had young children - Tescos didn't offer him anything. Why should they ??

Whilst I am sorry for anyone who loses money when a company goes into liquidation, these people haven't lost their income.

Daisy

Are they still planning to help?  I thought it had been reported that the offer was withdrawn as inpracticable when looking at the numbers involved.

Margot, I just wanted to say I am a huge fan of  moneysavingexpert I think it is a great site.  Me pennypincher never :D :D

Michelle x

I must say that to me, to spend ludicrous amounts of money on presents, at one time in the year and going without for the rest seems absolutely ridiculous.   As does spending indecent amounts of money on food and booze.   It's certainly not my idea of Christmas!  To me, Christmas is being with friends and family - and just enjoying being in each others' company.

However that isn't how all people choose to spend Christmas.   Each to his own.

Margot

I too am shocked by the lack of charitable thoughts amongst some on the board.....I feel sorry for ANYONE who loses out, be it farepak, redundancy, burglary, identity theft, or plain bad luck.
I truly dont see the need to decide "who needs it more" or to say that one group is more needy than another.  As for farepak, how dare any of you say its wrong to spend on christmas....it was THEIR money, NOT yours, how arrogant of any of you to say what they should and shouldnt do. Its better than spending it on fags after all. The money  was not just for presents, it was for food too. Well Ive seen what a family of 6 pay out just for a weekly shop....if you add presents for 4 children  and 2 adults its not so hard to get to £2000 surely?? And if you live a miserable frugal life the rest of the year, why not treat yourself at Christmas. Those of you who are moaning about the amount of money spent....ask yourself how much you spend on your annual holiday? That essential is it?
And Daisy, you obviously feel its reasonable to have a miserable christmas because christmas isnt essential. You planning on forfeiting YOUR christmas are you? In that case why dont you give your christmas cash away to a deserving charity? Or I can arrange it for you to join me at the local homeless hostel, or visiting the elderly who have no one. I am sure I could find a worthy charity to donate to, just contact me and I can arrange it.

Face the truth, claiming that these people dont deserve help and support is just a mask for you to hide behind, so you can justify not giving to the appeal, and keep your money selfishly to yourselves.

As I started this thread with a quotation which might have helped some of those who had lost their money with Farepak, I'm finishing with another quotation -

"Are there no prisons,no workhouses, no Poor Law and Treadmill to keep the destitute sheltered and to compel their employment? ...I can't afford to make idle people merry..if they would rather die, they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population."

Margot

As I understand it form the financial press, the major stores supplied vouchers to Farepak at a 25% discount, because of the volume involved. so all they are really doing is giving away the agreed margin , so it is not costing them anything extra, but does result in lots of positive press.

>Well Ive seen what a family of 6 pay out just for a weekly shop....

as they haven't lost their income that should be the same as any other week and turkey with seasonal vegetables is actually a rather economical way of feeding large numbers, the £2000 that some people invested in this must, therefore, be for the extras for a family of 6 that is over £300 each, man, woman and child!  As you say it is up to them what they do with their spare cash but that does not mean we cannot find it astonishing :)
Your post is rather confusing, you seem to be agreeing that we should feel sorry for everyone that looses money and yet you think it uncharitable when people are confused as to why this particular bit of bad luck should lead to funds from elsewhere when others peoples bad luck, which may involve their income, does not.

I couldnt put it better myself Isabel.  I for one am astonished what some people spend on christmas and other things they decide to buy, but as you said that is their choice. 

Michelle x

Do you mean my post, Isabel?

I don't take the moral high ground just because it isn't something that I would do.   In this case, I pointed out a legal method of claiming back what has been removed from certain people - just as I would do if I knew of other people who had lost money at this moment in time.

In the past we too have been affected by fraudulent closure of businesses and loss of income - but that was then, and this is now.   At that time we too obtained no help - in fact it was suggested that we had no "right" to claim anything because of where we lived:rolleyes:.  

Two wrongs don't make a right.

No, not your post, which as you say offered practical advise :)

>I truly dont see the need to decide "who needs it more" or to say that one group is more needy than another.

Exactly the point. :) This group need a handout no more (or no less?) than any other group who've lost money through a company collapse. Suggesting they're somehow a 'special case' and more deserving is deeply insulting to all the rest.

I never said they were more needy than anyone else....merely meant that they were no less needy. I still find the "it serves them right for saving with farepak, and spending too much money on christmas" attitude shocking. These people had the right to expect that their money would not disappear.
Those of you who have criticised the spending choices of others could take a look at your own choices. Ok you may choose to spend nothing on christmas. Maybe you dont have a supersized family like mine to share christmas with. Ill bet many of you who have moaned spend a damn sight more than £2000 on a family holiday, (and would no doubt be the first to moan if the company went bust). You wouldnt expect ME to tell you you had no sense spending that money.

I still think its hypocritical of people to say there is no need to spend any more money on christmas food than on any other day. Many on low incomes cannot possibly afford to eat even a plain roast lunch once a week.

Like I said, if any of you out there feel that strongly that a christmas dinner is an unnecessary luxury, you are welcome to cancel your christmas dinner and presents and give the money to a needy cause....I think its called putting your money where your mouth is.

I can bet none of you will do it though.

>there is no need to spend any more money on christmas food than on any other day

Who said that?   It has been weeks now since Farepak collapsed, plenty of time to put a little bit more aside each week to push the kitty up beyond the normal housekeeping available anyway, we certainly have something to celebrate at Christmas but over £300 a head is something to boggle at, isn't it? 
I have three sister and a step sister all with families and grew up spending Christmas with at the very least one of my mothers three sisters and brother and their families so know what these numbers can consume but if you treat it as a Jacob's join even the normal housekeeping for all these people creates a synergy that adds luxury, loaves and fishes and all that :)

>Those of you who are moaning about the amount of money spent....ask yourself how much you spend on your annual holiday

£250 last year; none at all this. Your point being ... ?

Pinklilies nobody is moaning about money spent on christmas, holidays etc, they are merely stating their opinion to which they are entitled :).  The fact is there are better ways imo to save for christmas but it each persons choice how they pay/save for christmas.

Jeangenie my point is pretty clear......a person has a right to spend their money how they choose. If a family wish to splash out on christmas its totally up to them, and you cannot deny that many of these posts criticise this behaviour saying that its an unnecessary luxury. I maintain that this is hypocrisy because many (not all) of those who are lashing out the criticism spend lots of money on unnecessary luxuries, and would not expect others to criticise them for their choices. I chose to use the example of holidays_ and one person responded £250 . That person is completely missing the point...SHE might spend that, but lots of you spend more. Its still a luxury however you put it. Now dont tell me you have all forgotten a thread on here about how much we spend on our dogs..its certainly at least a thousand a year for me, and most of you...now much as I love my dogs, I recognise that they are a luxury, and not a necessity. So surely how can ANYONE on this board criticise someone else for wanting to buy gifts and have a nice time???Whats so wrong in that???

It seems to be you missing the point, pinklilies. Yes, a person has a right to spend their money how they choose, wisely or unwisely. What they don't have is the right to expect other people to bail them (and not everyone else who loses out in similar ways) out when it goes pear-shaped. As has been pointed out, thousands of people lose their jobs (at Christmas as well as other times of the year) and lose their income, as do the people whose pensions are tied up in these companies, yet nobody sets up appeals to help them. Why do the people who've lost money with the Farepak collapse merit a rescue fund when people who've lost their jobs and pensions when their company crashes don't? Why are they being made into a special case? This is where the hypocrisy and unfairness lies.

Yes, it's a shame that the people saving with Farepack have lost their money - hopefully they'll be wise enough not to let it spoil their family celebrations. There's still several weeks to save in a proper savings account, and start making thoughtful gifts. Who knows, if it goes well they'll find that fewer material things isn't necessarily all bad. I sincerely wish them, and all the other people in straitened circumstances who the media conveniently ignore, a happy Christmas. :)

And sometimes it takes a hard knock like this to make people evaluate what they are doing and make different choices in the future. ;)

I'll be helping people who have nothing this Christmas, as I do every year and all through the year, not bailing out people who have made bad choices and then been unlucky, sorry though I may feel for them individually. :)